Job offer for private practice

[Eyes Only]

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Even though it's painfully obvous that there's a blue vest with a smiley face on it in your future, I'm going to say this one more time....

My offer allows someone interested in starting a practice to do it without any investment. They don't have to pay rent, salary for staff, overhead, marketing, utilities, nothing. In order to make the "going rate" all they would have to see is an average of four patients a day which is a lot less than they would have to see in the corporate world or in most traditional private practice employment situations.

I can assure you that if you start a practice cold and you see four patients a day you will not be drawing a salary for a looong time. My offer takes care of that.

You say that if 1% of 3000 people walking into a corporate location see you, you could make more than you would with me. 1% of 3000 is 30.

Would you rather see 30 patients a day and get paid $350 or see 4 and get paid $350?

You're wasting your time. She's a lost cause, if she really is a pre optometry student.

 

[optom123]

I will wear the vest with pride😎😀 Just kiddin', corporate will probably be my 3rd choice in terms of what type of practice modality I want to pursue.

A corporate entity like WALMART allows someone interested in starting a practice to do so without any investment. They have to pay very little rent and have the option of adding staff. They don't have overhead (besides rent/optional staff), marketing, utilities. In order to make the going rate, a walmart doc would only need to see 8 patients/day out of the 3000 patients that walk through the door without any effort on their part. But let's say you see 30 a day, or about 1% of walmart traffic. At Dr. Langford's fees, $50/exam, that equates to a $1500 day, without the need to sell material or attract patients. Also, at corporate, the OD is the "owner" unlike in a PP setting where the OD is just another associate.

What makes you so sure that those 4 new patients will buy glasses/contacts from your practice? There is a good chance they will take their prescription elsewhere.

[True story; I just went to the bank today and was talking to a teller who hadn't had an eye exam in 5 years. He told me he went to a local optometrist whom I know. This OD works in a VERY successful group practice, sorta like yours. Anyways, the bank teller took his prescription elsewhere to get new glasses (I believe it was an optical). The OD who saw him only made 21 dollars since he gets paid 21% of gross revenue. Of course, this OD is established in the practice, and will likely see more patients who buy glasses from them. But, what about the new associate who is working for KHE's practice? He/She doesn't have that flexibility.

But it doesn't end there...the tellers computer stopped working and I was asked to see another teller. While doing the usual banking with this new teller, the other teller's computer started up again and he saw the next customer. The next person to see this teller was a middle aged woman...who liked his glasses She started telling him how he could have gotten his glasses from coastal contacts (YES, she said costal contacts) because that's where she got hers. They both agreed with a nod that getting glasses from private practices is too expensive. At this point I was done with my banking and left the bank.]


Phew, I need to lighten up. I am writing paragraphs like JasonK, which is obviously not a good thing!

Even though it's painfully obvous that there's a blue vest with a smiley face on it in your future, I'm going to say this one more time....

My offer allows someone interested in starting a practice to do it without any investment. They don't have to pay rent, salary for staff, overhead, marketing, utilities, nothing. In order to make the "going rate" all they would have to see is an average of four patients a day which is a lot less than they would have to see in the corporate world or in most traditional private practice employment situations.

I can assure you that if you start a practice cold and you see four patients a day you will not be drawing a salary for a looong time. My offer takes care of that.

You say that if 1% of 3000 people walking into a corporate location see you, you could make more than you would with me. 1% of 3000 is 30.

Would you rather see 30 patients a day and get paid $350 or see 4 and get paid $350?

 

[Wilkesu12]

A doctor I know was sub leasing a walmart and she would stay from 8 to 6:30 because not enough patients were coming into her office, so she couldnt pay the rent. This walmart was not in the middle of nowhere either. So KHEs offer is more than likely one of the best you will come by. Most "booming" practices are not looking to sell or add a partner that aren't willing to add anything. I work in an absolutely "booming" practice, well over 1,000,000 patients and there are only 5 partners and they are all OMDs and they are not looking to add new partners any time soon. Also, the ODs there are upset because they are barely making 100k and seeing at least 20 patients a day. That is the real world, not walking out of school buying a practice with 100,000 patients unless you have a great plan and a great formula for adding your own patients!

 

[EyEnStein 07]

I will wear the vest with pride😎😀 Just kiddin', corporate will probably be my 3rd choice in terms of what type of practice modality I want to pursue.

A corporate entity like WALMART allows someone interested in starting a practice to do so without any investment. They have to pay very little rent and have the option of adding staff. They don't have overhead (besides rent/optional staff), marketing, utilities. In order to make the going rate, a walmart doc would only need to see 8 patients/day out of the 3000 patients that walk through the door without any effort on their part. But let's say you see 30 a day, or about 1% of walmart traffic. At Dr. Langford's fees, $50/exam, that equates to a $1500 day, without the need to sell material or attract patients. Also, at corporate, the OD is the "owner" unlike in a PP setting where the OD is just another associate.

What makes you so sure that those 4 new patients will buy glasses/contacts from your practice? There is a good chance they will take their prescription elsewhere.

So 1500 from walmart where you do have to "pay" for rent and additional things, vs 1500 (assuming this is your 22%) from KHE where the total is yours? Also you'd rather see 30 patients a day for a few minutes as opposed to like 5 for a half hour each?

There might be a good chance that they will take the prescription somewhere else but that is also because its partially your fault.

Have you read this thread? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=850810

 

[optom123]

So 1500 from walmart where you do have to "pay" for rent and additional things, vs 1500 (assuming this is your 22%) from KHE where the total is yours? Also you'd rather see 30 patients a day for a few minutes as opposed to like 5 for a half hour each?

There might be a good chance that they will take the prescription somewhere else but that is also because its partially your fault.

Have you read this thread? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=850810

From Walmart:

[How is rent calculated?
For Walmart, rent varies by state. In most states, rent is figured weekly based on your gross fees, usually 20%. For Sam's Club, the rent is a flat $200/month.

What expenses will I have associated with opening a practice next to a Walmart Vision Center or Sam's Club Optical? This varies by state, but start-up costs are very low, usually involving only business advertising, some paper supplies, and diagnostic pharmaceutical agents.

How many patients would I see a day?
Practices vary depending on how much you commit to growing your practice. We expect new stores to open up doing 35-40 exams/week with an annual 10-20% growth. Some of our ODs run clinics employing three associate doctors, seeing over 200 patients a week.]


Expenses at walmart are very low but you are guaranteed patients. As far as the amount of patients, I don't know; depends on delegation.

Also, your first question is very flawed. In order to make $1500 from KHE, you would have to gross 1500/.22 = 7000 PER DAY. This will never happen...you would have to see like 25 patients and hope that atleast 60% of them buy eyewear for approx ~380. If somehow you can do this, than it's a better deal than corporate 😀

 

[optom123]

A doctor I know was sub leasing a walmart and she would stay from 8 to 6:30 because not enough patients were coming into her office, so she couldnt pay the rent. This walmart was not in the middle of nowhere either. So KHEs offer is more than likely one of the best you will come by. Most "booming" practices are not looking to sell or add a partner that aren't willing to add anything. I work in an absolutely "booming" practice, well over 1,000,000 patients and there are only 5 partners and they are all OMDs and they are not looking to add new partners any time soon. Also, the ODs there are upset because they are barely making 100k and seeing at least 20 patients a day. That is the real world, not walking out of school buying a practice with 100,000 patients unless you have a great plan and a great formula for adding your own patients!

Just curious, how many patients do you think you would need in order to make real money?

 

[EyEnStein 07]

Also, your first question is very flawed. In order to make $1500 from KHE, you would have to gross 1500/.22 = 7000 PER DAY. This will never happen...you would have to see like 25 patients and hope that atleast 60% of them buy eyewear for approx ~380. If somehow you can do this, than it's a better deal than corporate 😀

I meant in general, as an optometrist, would you rather see 30 for a few minutes or see a few patients for a while (i.e. giving them a full exam)?
I have never observed in a corporate practice, however when i shadowed over the summer at the SUNY eye clinic and at a Private Practice near by, every single patient was seen for at least 30 minutes.

Also, you mentioned earlier that corporate is your 3rd choice. Out of curiosity, what are the first two?

 

[optom123]

The amount of time you spend with a patient depends on how much delegation you have. If no delegation, I'd imagine 20-30minutes should be good per patient. If you've got delegation than you can probably spend at the very most 20 minutes with your patient. Personally, 30 minutes is a bit too long for my liking.

I would pursue private practice first. If that doesn't work, I will work as an independent contractor at different locations. If neither of those two options work out, than the blue vest awaits!

 

[Eyes Only]

The amount of time you spend with a patient depends on how much delegation you have. If no delegation, I'd imagine 20-30minutes should be good per patient. If you've got delegation than you can probably spend at the very most 20 minutes with your patient. Personally, 30 minutes is a bit too long for my liking.

I would pursue private practice first. If that doesn't work, I will work as an independent contractor at different locations. If neither of those two options work out, than the blue vest awaits!

So to see your 30 patients a day at walmart is going to take you 10 to 15 hours of nonstop patient care?

You really have NO idea what you are talking about.

 

[optom123]

So to see your 30 patients a day at walmart is going to take you 10 to 15 hours of nonstop patient care?

You really have NO idea what you are talking about.

Respectfully; you're an idiot. 20 px/day will give me $1k in my pocket. That's considering a fee of only $50, which is a bit low I might add. That's not even the going rate for the OD. In order to make $400, which is what I would be happy with, I'd have to see only 8 patients. That's 1 patient per hour, in case you cant do basic math.

Let it go eyes only; you're just upset that you make $80k as an owner while new grads working for corporate have the opportunity of making more. Again, this doesn't mean that corporate is the way to go long term.

 

[Eyes Only]

Respectfully; you're an idiot. 20 px/day will give me $1k in my pocket. That's considering a fee of only $50, which is a bit low I might add. That's not even the going rate for the OD. In order to make $400, which is what I would be happy with, I'd have to see only 8 patients. That's 1 patient per hour, in case you cant do basic math.

Let it go eyes only; you're just upset that you make $80k as an owner while new grads working for corporate have the opportunity of making more. Again, this doesn't mean that corporate is the way to go long term.

No Emily, you are the idiot.

You're the one who said they were going to see 30 patients a day, not me. Wally will charge you 20% for rent and another 10% for a tech. So you will take home $35 to $40 per exam (minus expenses).

There is no way you will consistently see 20 patients a day. Retail ODs aren't that busy, there is too much competition. You will probably see an average of 10 patients a day and make $350 to $400. Hopefully your student loan will be low enough you can get by.

Where did you get the idea I only make $80K per year? Not from me. My practice loans were paid off years ago. I net close to 40%. No new grad can touch what I make.

It's time for the big reveal Emily, you are really a corporate recruiter for WalMart, not a pre optometry student.

Go change your screen name again and let's see how long it takes for us to figure it out.

 

[optom123]

Benjamin, if you read any of the posts above without bias, you will see it was an answer to another posters question. It was theoretical, just like KHE's offer where you are supposed to somehow bring 4 new patients everyday. Even if you see less than 1% of walmarts traffic, you can still make a lot of money by seeing 30 patients a day, working corporate.

Ok- I'll tell you what. I'll see an average of 10 patients a day and make $400. I don't have a problem with that at all, as I've said earlier. I would be satisfied with this as I am sure many others will to. But I highly doubt this will be the case...10 patients at $69/exam is a bit more realistic.......on a bad day. This offer is still better than KHE's offer as I've got no other commitment to the practice and no role in material sales.

While I would be making my money through professional fees, you would be making your money off of material sales. Is that why you went to Optometry school!? To sell glasses!?

No new grad can touch what you make? Cool, you would compare yourself to a new grad. (I doubt this is even true anyways)

Oh yeah, I am a corporate recruiter when I previously stated several times I will pursue private practice first.

You net close to 40%? Cool, if I decide to work at corporate I'll net close to 80%.

Retail OD's aren't busy? Yea huh, and associates at private practices are.

No Emily, you are the idiot.

You're the one who said they were going to see 30 patients a day, not me. Wally will charge you 20% for rent and another 10% for a tech. So you will take home $35 to $40 per exam (minus expenses).

There is no way you will consistently see 20 patients a day. Retail ODs aren't that busy, there is too much competition. You will probably see an average of 10 patients a day and make $350 to $400. Hopefully your student loan will be low enough you can get by.

Where did you get the idea I only make $80K per year? Not from me. My practice loans were paid off years ago. I net close to 40%. No new grad can touch what I make.

It's time for the big reveal Emily, you are really a corporate recruiter for WalMart, not a pre optometry student.

Go change your screen name again and let's see how long it takes for us to figure it out.

 

[KHE]

In any commercial situation I have ever worked in, I can not recall even once seeing anything close to 20 patients a day. And I used to work in the 3rd busiest Lenscrafters in the country.

But I recall many days when the lease holding doctor actually lost money by having me there.

But no matter....emily (or optom123) will go the way of the blue vest. Her postings on here have clearly shown that she is no where close to being "ownership material."

 

[Jason K]

While I would be making my money through professional fees, you would be making your money off of material sales. Is that why you went to Optometry school!? To sell glasses!?

Ummm, so let me see if I have this straight. Our fearless imemily/optom123 believes selling glasses is beneath her, but yet she's ok with walking to her office through the vacuum aisle? Better yet, she craps on moving glasses, but she wants to go into private practice?

Emily, maybe you can replace me at my location in a few months. I love it here and I don't have to answer questions about vacuum cleaners when I'm opening the door to my office so it's really the best of both worlds. You get a combination of mediocre pay, low stress, and no vacuum cleaners. Oh, did I mention that the staff is incompetent, has neck tattoos, and routinely drops F-bombs in front of patients? Totally low-stress environment, though. It's an oasis really. As much as I hate working in a retail environment, here's a question I'll never have to answer at work:

"Excuuuuuuse me, mister.....can you tell me right quick where's I might be able to find a large, high-powered, shotgun a some sort? See, I gots me a rodent problem and I really need to take care a them little vermints or the wife's gonna have me asleepin' own the front porch. Also, I need a hunderd pound bag a dog food and new tars for the pickup."

You net close to 40%? Cool, if I decide to work at corporate I'll net close to 80%.

The fact that you don't realize the difference between a PP that net's 40% and a corporate doc-in-the-box who gets conned into believing that he's making a killing with his "80%," is laughable. You're not going to be netting 80%, my dear. Also, I highly doubt many private practitioners will be seeing this guy in their office......

I guess that's an advantage of a Walshart office - you get to see a wide range of patient types....those with exposed ass-cracks and those without. Those suspenders really add to the ensemble.

....you may need to account for quite a bit of extra alcohol wipes to clean your exam chair after some of your patient encounters when figuring out your net....given the patient population, it could take you down to that 40% level.

I think this guy was a walk-in....

 

[EyEnStein 07]

The fact that you don't realize the difference between a PP that net's 40% and a corporate doc-in-the-box who gets conned into believing that he's making a killing with his "80%," is laughable. You're not going to be netting 80%, my dear. Also, I highly doubt many private practitioners will be seeing this guy in their office......

LOL at your pics.

Would you mind clarifying your point about the 80%? optom123 seems to think that with low overhead costs and optional staff, he is able to make a killing by seeing 20 patients a day or something and make so much more than the general PP.

80% seems very unreasonable but i guess I'm not sure why. Sorry if you or one of the other OD's on the board posted this earlier. Im just wondering where this miscalculation comes from...is it a matter of "hidden fees" or just a misconception that an OD at walmart will see that many patients in one day?

Is it likely that assuming an 8 hour day for an optometrist in Walmart, he/she will see only a few people?

 

[Jason K]

LOL at your pics.

Would you mind clarifying your point about the 80%? optom123 seems to think that with low overhead costs and optional staff, he is able to make a killing by seeing 20 patients a day or something and make so much more than the general PP.

80% seems very unreasonable but i guess I'm not sure why. Sorry if you or one of the other OD's on the board posted this earlier. Im just wondering where this miscalculation comes from...is it a matter of "hidden fees" or just a misconception that an OD at walmart will see that many patients in one day?

Is it likely that assuming an 8 hour day for an optometrist in Walmart, he/she will see only a few people?

She's basing the 80% net figure on the idea that many doc-in-the-box agreements charge you a percentage of your monthly gross, often around 20%. Some charge more, some less. Some charge you a flat fee per month. Those fees used to be less than they are today. I know a few WalCrap / Sam's Flub leaseholders who say their rents have increased dramatically in the last few years. Why? Is it because Walmart is strapped for cash and they really need the extra money? It's because every year, more and more ODs flood the market. Walmart knows that as more ODs enter the pool, their leases become more rare relative to the number of ODs who want in. What used to be a dark back-room closet for ODs who had nowhere else to go is now something for which ODs compete. When the demand for box leases goes up, so does the rent. I'd expect that corporate lease costs will be increasing steadily in the years to come.

I have a friend who practices in a Costco setting. She waited no less than 5 years to get her lease. She does quite well financially, all things considered. Costco leases are regarded as the best of the boxes, at least from the people I speak with. I know another OD who works in a Sam's Club. She makes an abysmal income, but she's stuck in her lease, slaving away....sometimes seeing 2 or 3 patients in a day. When you see a 3 patients in a day, that's what you get paid for. Every hour you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs is money thrown out the window. Make no mistake, just because you open your flimsy hollow-core door in a Walmart or Sam's Club does not mean that patients will flock to you. I don't know where certain posters get the idea that the majority of box leases provide endless lines of obese bargain hunters, just eager to drop $45 in her pocket for spin of the wheels and a 60 second trip behind the slit lamp. Most box leases don't have packed schedules. Those that do will have a doc won't be leaving in the near future. Good luck with your Sam's Club, emily, let us all know how it works out for you. 😀

As an aside, I've filled in at a Walmart / Sam's Club or two in my day. As much as I detest my current setting, the thought of going to work in a discount megatropolis is nauseating to me. The patients you see in those settings are not the same folks you see in a private practice setting or even my corporate employed setting. I can't believe this lady went out without a belt. You've got to giver her credit where credit is due, however. Look at the engineering marvel evident across the mid-back. That was all improvised. The way that string tie evenly distributes the enormous tensile loads by directing them along the diagonals like that - genius. I'd hate to be behind her on the highway if she were riding shotgun on a Harley, though. Those babies would be flapping in the wind like a thin cotton T-shirt in a hurricane. She might have a career in span bridge design, though.

 

[optom123]

In any commercial situation I have ever worked in, I can not recall even once seeing anything close to 20 patients a day. And I used to work in the 3rd busiest Lenscrafters in the country.

But I recall many days when the lease holding doctor actually lost money by having me there.

But no matter....emily (or optom123) will go the way of the blue vest. Her postings on here have clearly shown that she is no where close to being "ownership material."

That's because you never worked in a walmart. Lenscrafters is nothing compared to walmart, due to the massive amount of volume walmart brings in. I've been to a lenscrafters and I've been to a walmart....their is really no comparison.

I am ownership material. If I wasn't I wouldn't have already made agreements to buy-out a doctor right after I graduate optometry school. If that fails, there are plenty of practices for sale that meet my demands.

Why work for someone else, when you can work for yourself? You'll just end up like SDN's disgruntled poster boy Jason K.

Let's just assume for a second that I'm not ownership material, whatever that means. Exactly, how is this a bad thing, or, so what if I am not ownership material?

 

[Eyes Only]

I am ownership material. If I wasn't I wouldn't have already made agreements to buy-out a doctor right after I graduate optometry school. If that fails, there are plenty of practices for sale that meet my demands.

No doctor in their right mind would have a buyout agreement with a student who hasn't yet been accepted to an optometry program.

 

[Jason K]

That's because you never worked in a walmart. Lenscrafters is nothing compared to walmart, due to the massive amount of volume walmart brings in. I've been to a lenscrafters and I've been to a walmart....their is really no comparison.

You're not even Walmart material. Sam's?....maybe. Enjoy your vest, but you may need some additional income when you discover that you'll only get a few patients per day in the crappy leases that will be available to you when you're shot out of the OD production facility of your choice. I suggest looking into a cashier's position or maybe a greeter.

 

[optom123]

No doctor in their right mind would have a buyout agreement with a student who hasn't yet been accepted to an optometry program.

Also, what have you to say about my other post above?

 

[xmattODx]

That's because you never worked in a walmart. Lenscrafters is nothing compared to walmart, due to the massive amount of volume walmart brings in. I've been to a lenscrafters and I've been to a walmart....their is really no comparison.

You have to be a troll. You speak with confidence of things you know nothing about. I've filled in at plenty of Wal-Marts. In fact, I've been filling in at one almost every week the last little while. I have worked at Wal-Marts in three states. In general, they do not see 20 patients per day. The one I'm filling in at these days is lucky to see 9 on a Saturday.

 

[optom123]

That's your problem xmattODx. You are not reaching your income potential for various reasons. I've already proven above you can make a lucrative income working at corporate, and even by charging the LOWEST fees. Now there are some ODs, like yourself, who are situated in crappy areas and/or lack the skills to maximize their income. This doesn't mean that corporate optometry is not lucrative. You need to relocate a 4th time and hopefully you'll be in a better position.


Anyways, it doesn't matter to me that corporate might not be as lucrative as proven since I don't plan to take that route initially. But it's still better than what most PP's have to offer.

 

[KHE]

I am ownership material. If I wasn't I wouldn't have already made agreements to buy-out a doctor right after I graduate optometry school. If that fails, there are plenty of practices for sale that meet my demands.

Not a single solitary thing you have ever said on these forums has made me think for one second that you are. But if you already have an agreement in place I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

 

[Eyes Only]

Also, what have you to say about my other post above?

No not mad, I'm a successful doctor, you're not.

 

[optom123]

You call yourself a successful doctor, but you're here on SDN trying to convince people to not go to optometry school.

Good for you...keep thinking to yourself that you are successful. I don't care nor do I think anyone else does. Moreover, you have miserably failed to defend private practice Optometry in light of Corporate optometry.

I truly hope you have fun selling glasses, doc.

 

[Jason K]

Moreover, you have miserably failed to defend private practice Optometry in light of Corporate optometry.

I truly hope you have fun selling glasses, doc.

Oh, god - I think this is my favorite emily post of them all! I never thought I'd find someone, so filled with delusions, that they envision taking "the high road" in optometry by going corporate - priceless.

I hope you have fun directing people to the frozen food section, "doc."

Hey, this gal looks like she's eyeing the vision center - get your refracting fingers ready. I'd leave the door open, though.....

 

[Eyes Only]

You call yourself a successful doctor, but you're here on SDN trying to convince people to not go to optometry school.

Good for you...keep thinking to yourself that you are successful. I don't care nor do I think anyone else does. Moreover, you have miserably failed to defend private practice Optometry in light of Corporate optometry.

I truly hope you have fun selling glasses, doc.

I'm not trying to convince anyone not to go to optometry school. Only making sure they know what they're getting into. I'm actually an alumni recruiter for my Alma Mater.

I don't need to defend private practice. I have never practiced in retail and never will. It offers absolutely no advantage to someone who wants to practice full scope optometry.

If all someone wants to do is spin dials all day for a few hundred bucks...go for it!

As for selling glasses, all successful private practice ODs know that optical sales make up about about 2/3 of our income. I have absolutely no problem with that. I have a great optician who does all the selling for me.

You don't think you will sell glasses in retail practice? Fail to produce enough Rxs for specs and they will cancel your lease faster than you can say "I wish I had picked another profession."

It's obvious you are a poser/troll and not a pre optometry student. That's actually a good thing because if you really were pre opt I'd be worried about the future of eye care in this country.

I'm done wasting my time with you.

 

[Eyes Only]

Oh, god - I think this is my favorite emily post of them all! Up to this point, I just thought you were a misguided, naive soul. Now I just think you're clinically insane. I never thought I'd find someone who thought they were taking "the high road" in optometry by going corporate - priceless.

I hope you have fun directing people to the frozen food section, "doc."

I met a corporate OD who once made the claim he practiced the purest form of eye care in retail. What a nut job!

 

[xmattODx]

That's your problem xmattODx. You are not reaching your income potential for various reasons... [snip] You need to relocate a 4th time and hopefully you'll be in a better position.

haha. You are a troll. A pretty good one though. Congrats.

 

[optom123]

I don't consider myself a troll. In trying to understand Optometry a bit more, I have offered more advice/cleared more myths in one thread than you have done since 2003.

It certainly isn't my fault that certain OD's make pennies working at corporate, or other OD's who sell glasses for a living.

Honestly, I was expecting to have learned a couple things here and there by discussing KHE's offer, but it seems as if I broke some hearts instead.

 

[xmattODx]

I don't consider myself a troll. In trying to understand Optometry a bit more, I have offered more advice/cleared more myths in one thread than you have done since 2003.

You do know I'm not really a clinical optometrist, right? You aren't clearing myths. You're just creating new ones. Enjoy the rest of the thread. 😀

 

[optom123]

You do know I'm not really a clinical optometrist, right? You aren't clearing myths. You're just creating new ones. Enjoy the rest of the thread. 😀

Do you really think ODs in corporate netting 100k+ are going to come on SDN acting like a bunch of sadistic low-lives like some posters in this thread? These things that you consider to be myths are facts, based on numbers and data from walmart and practicing walmart optometrists.

You are just one OD who has had a bad experience with corporate optometry.

 

[Jason K]

Do you really think ODs in corporate netting 100k+ are going to come on SDN acting like a bunch of sadistic low-lives like some posters in this thread?

After all is said and done, I make 100K+, oh wise one. And yet....here I am. Keep believing that corporate optometry is the place to be....live the dream, baby....live the dream!

Hey, what ever happened to "It's not all about the money....it's about patient care?" I thought that was your mantra back when you were imemily? Since when did the local Walmart become the center for top-notch eye care?

 

[Eyes Only]

After all is said and done, I make 100K+, oh wise one. And yet....here I am. Keep believing that corporate optometry is the place to be....live the dream, baby....live the dream!

Hey, what ever happened to "It's not all about the money....it's about patient care?" I thought that was your mantra back when you were imemily? Since when did the local Walmart become the center for top-notch eye care?

She posted this less than 2 months ago, now she's an expert on the profession...


Interesting...this thread, among other things, has unfortunately, forced me to question my choice of becoming an Optometrist.

Is it true that most ODs just turn dials? I would freakin hate doing that after advanced education. Really, how much truth is there to this? In reality, is an OMD an OD who is able to perform eye related surgery?

 

[Jason K]

Is it true that most ODs just turn dials? I would freakin hate doing that after advanced education. Really, how much truth is there to this? In reality, is an OMD an OD who is able to perform eye related surgery?

I don't think this is true........yet. It think there's a mix of dial spinners (I'd like to consider myself otherwise, but that's exactly what I am for most of the week) and true full-scope docs. Thank god I've been able to do full-scope care at least 1 day per week.

In the very near future, there's no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of ODs coming out of school will have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for a glorified refracting optician's certification. They'll be filling the same role since it will all be about selling materials for the corporation and not about eye care. Most of the pre-ops on this forum believe they will be able to practice in a successful private office, but there just isn't enough room for that to happen. A few will make it, most wont, and those that don't will sink us all. It sucks, but I see this as an inevitable end to what's happening right now with the mindless proliferation of new OD programs and no centralized "brain" that can act in the profession's best interest.

 

[Eyes Only]

I don't think this is true........yet. It think there's a mix of dial spinners (I'd like to consider myself otherwise, but that's exactly what I am for most of the week) and true full-scope docs. In the very near future, however, there's no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of ODs coming out of school will have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for a glorified refracting optician's certification. They'll be filling the same role since it will all be about selling materials for the corporation and not about eye care. Most of the pre-ops on this forum believe they will be able to practice in a successful private office, but there just isn't enough room for that to happen. A few will make it, most wont, and the rest will sink us all.

Jason,

Sorry I didn't make that last post clear. That was a cut and paste of one of Emily's posts from October. Just demonstrating how far she has come in the past month.

 

[Jason K]

Jason,

Sorry I didn't make that last post clear. That was a cut and paste of one of Emily's posts from October. Just demonstrating how far she has come in the past month.

No worries! I actually remember one post not long ago in which she said, "I can't comment intelligently on the profession since I know little about it......" or something to that end. I can't believe she became an expert on the entire field of optometry in just a few short months. Maybe she could request an accelerated OD program since she'll learn faster than the rest of the class

 

[optom123]

Jason K and Eyes Only are probably the same posters...lmao.


And eyes, you should really get back to your shop and start selling them glasses. Those things don't sell themselves. Especially when walmart is in town.

 

[Jason K]

Jason K and Eyes Only are probably the same posters...lmao.

No, emily. As I've said before, you and netmag....and probably optohopeful, are the only idiots on this forum who get pounded, make up a new username, and then start firing out the same nonsense as usual. Just accept your upcoming career working with this guy as a patient....

 

[Ben Chudner]

I've already proven above you can make a lucrative income working at corporate, and even by charging the LOWEST fees.

Did I miss something? When was this "proven"? You posted a math equation in which you plugged in numbers that you made up out of thin air. What you have done is created a hypothetical situation where an OD could make a lot of money in a corporate location. That does not prove anything.

One other thing I find interesting is that optom123 has no desire to work for a private practice unless there is a partnership agreement in place on day one (of course with a deal in place before she even starts optometry school I can see why) , but she has no problem working in a corporate setting with a 30 day out clause. Maybe, that's one of the things you still have to learn. When you sign your lease, you agree to let Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, LensCrafters, etc terminate that lease with 30 days notice. I have friends that were not willing to play ball with the Wal-Mart district manager with respect to either hours or fees and lost their lease.

The bottom line is that I don't care where you end up. I do care that people come on to this site to learn about this profession and posts like yours give a very false sense of what it's like to be an OD. The vast majority of first year optometry students believe that they will go into private practice, but by the time they graduate, the number that actually end up in private practice is dramatically lower. I don't usually comment on whether that's good or bad for the profession, but it is bad for those that do not want to practice that type of optometry. I've worked in practically every setting during my career - hospital based during residency, Pearle Vision (also during residency), OD/MD practice, solo OD practice, and group OD practice. I can tell you that the only setting that was painful for me to work in was that Pearle Vision. It just was not the type of optometry I enjoy. For those that do enjoy it, corporate can be very rewarding. For those that don't enjoy it but have no choice due to circumstances, I can't imagine how horrible that must be.

 

[optom123]

Those weren't made up numbers. It's all up there with references to how walmart works, using Dr. Langford's fees. You could just call it hypothetical, but I personally know of no less than 3 full-time lease holders that make a killing charging a bit more and seeing a bit more than the usual walmart practice.

You're right; I have no desire to work for my competition, unless I am compensated accordingly. 😉

 

[Ben Chudner]

Those weren't made up numbers. It's all up there with references to how walmart works, using Dr. Langford's fees. You could just call it hypothetical, but I personally know of no less than 3 full-time lease holders that make a killing charging a bit more and seeing a bit more than the usual walmart practice.

My point is that unless you saw Dr. Langford's actual charges or observed his practice for more than a short period of time, you have no idea how many patients he really sees in a year. And unless he showed you his tax returns, you have no idea how much he actually makes.

 

[KHE]

My point is that unless you saw Dr. Langford's actual charges or observed his practice for more than a short period of time, you have no idea how many patients he really sees in a year. And unless he showed you his tax returns, you have no idea how much he actually makes.

Against my better judgement, I'll ask.....

Who is Dr. David Langford? Is he some Walmart recruiter or something?

 

[xmattODx]

Against my better judgement, I'll ask.....

Who is Dr. David Langford? Is he some Walmart recruiter or something?

Had a private practice. Vehemently decried the evils of commercial optometry. Private practice failed.

Went to Wal-Mart. Now commercial practice apologist.

http://www.optoblog.com/

 

[Tippytoe]

Oh come on folks. Are you all really still playing with iemily? He/She is a TROLL of the highest order.

Time to move on and communicate with people that are 'of this world'.

On the other hand, she does stir up the debate. Just a big waste of time, me thinks.

 

[optom123]

My point is that unless you saw Dr. Langford's actual charges or observed his practice for more than a short period of time, you have no idea how many patients he really sees in a year. And unless he showed you his tax returns, you have no idea how much he actually makes.

I read somewhere on his blog that he sees somewhere between 20-24 patients. Also in his own words "I can keep my fees low because my overhead is lower than a typical doctor's office since I have an ideal location inside Wal*Mart which provides a steady flow of appointments."

Just wanna add to Dr. Langfords statement above. His overhead is not lower, but is practically non-existent, compared to that of a private practitioner. At corporate you will, at minimum, net 80% of your gross billings. Whereas in private practice, you would have to rely on the sale of materials to generate income, and pay for COGs etc. You're like a gloried optician in PP, if you are dispensing. I'm certain you know this, but I'd like to emphasize this over and over again for new grads/students considering Optometry.

Ain't that funny? Somehow everything that I have said thus far regarding corporate is further emphasized by Dr. Langford on his own website. Also, I just read the bit just now, so I had no idea that I was truly right aside from the ODs who I've met in real life. Oh, but you're just gonna say this is one case. Wrong again; I personally know of 3 ODs at walmart who make slightly less than PP owners.

I don't mean to boast about corporate optometry, but it is better in every way compared to private practice, unless PP can offer you a competitive salary. PP should not be an option for a new graduates unless they intend on purchasing a PP. Once again, the only people who have a problem with corporate are those sleazy OD's who are doing poorly. I've witnessed this; its VERY pathetic. Heck, we know of a couple of miserable posters here on SDN just like that. However, if you have strong opinions as to why corporate isn't good, please share.

I don't want to debate about fees/insurances as that's all relative and will deter from the original premise of this thread, but here are, in DETAIL, his fees.

VisionHealth EyeCare's low exam fees as of 1-1-2011:

• $50 Basic Eye Exam (dilation at no extra charge)
• $30 extra for contact lens fitting – standard spherical lens
• $40 extra for contact lens fitting – toric, multi-focal, monovision, or GP lenses
• $45 or $65 Level 2 or 3 Medical Visit (e.g. Red/pink Eye, painful eye)
• $75 Foreign Body Removal
• $20 extra for corneal topography
• $10 extra for corneal pachymetry (measures thickness of cornea, important in detecting glaucoma)
• $30 extra for HRT2 optic nerve imaging (glaucoma special testing)
• $40 extra for Complete Visual Field testing
• $20 Follow-up Exam (contact lens follow-up if between 2-6 months from date of initial fitting; note: 0-60 days contact lens follow-up visits are included in above contact lens fitting fee.)
• $700 extra for Ortho-K evaluation, lenses, and follow-up for new wearers ($400 for patients that I've previously fit with Ortho-K).

 

[optom123]

Had a private practice. Vehemently decried the evils of commercial optometry. Private practice failed.

Went to Wal-Mart. Now commercial practice apologist.

http://www.optoblog.com/

Stop hating xmattODx. You'll get your chance soon enough. You just need to relocate a 4th time. 😀

 

[xmattODx]

Stop hating xmattODx. You'll get your chance soon enough. You just need to relocate a 4th time. 😀

Procrastinating from actual work so will respond. I've actually relocated 6 times since graduation. Three states and three countries. Will be in a fourth state this time next year.

I have to tip my hat to you. You are a wonderful troll. In all seriousness you say just the right things to get people's blood boiling. It is a wonderful gift!

Are you David Langford? If so, we've met.

 

[KHE]

I read somewhere on his blog that he sees somewhere between 20-24 patients. Also in his own words "I can keep my fees low because my overhead is lower than a typical doctor’s office since I have an ideal location inside Wal*Mart which provides a steady flow of appointments."

Just wanna add to Dr. Langfords statement above. His overhead is not lower, but is practically non-existent, compared to that of a private practitioner. At corporate you will, at minimum, net 80% of your gross billings. Whereas in private practice, you would have to rely on the sale of materials to generate income, and pay for COGs etc. You're like a gloried optician in PP, if you are dispensing. I'm certain you know this, but I'd like to emphasize this over and over again for new grads/students considering Optometry.

VisionHealth EyeCare’s low exam fees as of 1-1-2011:

• $50 Basic Eye Exam (dilation at no extra charge)
• $30 extra for contact lens fitting – standard spherical lens
• $40 extra for contact lens fitting – toric, multi-focal, monovision, or GP lenses
• $45 or $65 Level 2 or 3 Medical Visit (e.g. Red/pink Eye, painful eye)
• $75 Foreign Body Removal
• $20 extra for corneal topography
• $10 extra for corneal pachymetry (measures thickness of cornea, important in detecting glaucoma)
• $30 extra for HRT2 optic nerve imaging (glaucoma special testing)
• $40 extra for Complete Visual Field testing
• $20 Follow-up Exam (contact lens follow-up if between 2-6 months from date of initial fitting; note: 0-60 days contact lens follow-up visits are included in above contact lens fitting fee.)
• $700 extra for Ortho-K evaluation, lenses, and follow-up for new wearers ($400 for patients that I’ve previously fit with Ortho-K).

Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous....

On the one hand you claim to have an offer to buy out a private practice even before you start optometry school and you've claimed that private practice is your goal but your own words are "I don't mean to boast about corporate optometry, but it is better in every way compared to private practice, unless PP can offer you a competitive salary."

Dr. Langford charges $50 for an exam. Let's assume half his patients are contact lens patients and half of those need the premium contact lens fee that he charges. ($40 is premium? lol)

But whatever.....his average contact lens fee would be $35 for half his patients which would make his average fee per patient approximately $67.50. At 20 patients a day the average gross revenue would be $1350 per day and if we assumed an 80% net, that would leave $1080 in net for Dr. Langford. That sounds awesome.

Let's look at the situation of a hypothetical private practice that grosses an average of....I don't know.....let's just pick a number like......$380 per patient. I know of a practice that does that. 😀

At 20 patients, that averages out to $7600 per day. Now, I have it on very good authority that this practice nets 38% since overhead is shared with another partner so 0.38 X $7600 is $2888 in revenue for the doctor.

Gee.....which situation offers the more competitive salary?

But let's assume that it's a solo practice so it has the more traditional optometric private practice net of 30%. That would leave $2280 for the doctor. More than twice of what the Walmart doc is bringing home.

And the doc in the private practice doesn't have to walk past the 50 pound bags of fertilizer and dog food to get to his office and doesn't have to listen to the *boop* *boop* *boop* of cash registers running all day long.

Good luck with the vest Emily, I hope you do just as well as Dr. Langford.

 

[optom123]

As an employee/IC, corporate is better than PP in every way. I challenge you to prove me otherwise. So I gather its proven that I'll make more money working for corporate than working for you, right? You cannot deny this...you even did the calculations above.

If you are an owner of PP than that's obviously better than working for someone, or for corporate. I never suggested the contrary. I have no idea on what you are trying to prove by proclaiming that an owner of PP makes more money than a walmart lease holder. This is pretty much fact and I wholeheartedly agree. It isn't news to me. This is one of the secondary reasons why I will pursue PP first, as should any new grad.

Also, KHE, I hope you don't sincerely believe that your success is due to only your own efforts. I am sure you're a great doctor/business man, but Dr. Sienko has had a major role in your success.

Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous....

On the one hand you claim to have an offer to buy out a private practice even before you start optometry school and you've claimed that private practice is your goal but your own words are "I don't mean to boast about corporate optometry, but it is better in every way compared to private practice, unless PP can offer you a competitive salary."

Dr. Langford charges $50 for an exam. Let's assume half his patients are contact lens patients and half of those need the premium contact lens fee that he charges. ($40 is premium? lol)

But whatever.....his average contact lens fee would be $35 for half his patients which would make his average fee per patient approximately $67.50. At 20 patients a day the average gross revenue would be $1350 per day and if we assumed an 80% net, that would leave $1080 in net for Dr. Langford. That sounds awesome.

Let's look at the situation of a hypothetical private practice that grosses an average of....I don't know.....let's just pick a number like......$380 per patient. I know of a practice that does that. 😀

At 20 patients, that averages out to $7600 per day. Now, I have it on very good authority that this practice nets 38% since overhead is shared with another partner so 0.38 X $7600 is $2888 in revenue for the doctor.

Gee.....which situation offers the more competitive salary?

But let's assume that it's a solo practice so it has the more traditional optometric private practice net of 30%. That would leave $2280 for the doctor. More than twice of what the Walmart doc is bringing home.

And the doc in the private practice doesn't have to walk past the 50 pound bags of fertilizer and dog food to get to his office and doesn't have to listen to the *boop* *boop* *boop* of cash registers running all day long.

Good luck with the vest Emily, I hope you do just as well as Dr. Langford.