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Job red flags
- Thread starter jupiterianvibe
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For private practice jobs: when time-to-partnership is vaguely stated
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When compensation is not divided evenly between partners or overly complicated formulas involved.
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Ditto all the above.
Also when work is not divided evenly among partners (allowing, of course, for easier workloads for those otherwise busy maintaining and especially growing the business. The key here, of course, is busy. Differences in workload and compensation among partners generally do not equilibrate or even stabilize with time. If you can't justify it now, you will grow to despise it later.
Unexplained age gap between partners and minions, with no/few mid-level partners in between. That's churn-and-burn until you prove otherwise.
Prolonged time to partnership (greater than three years), regardless of the very unique and extra-special reason invariably given. There is no reason other than milking you.
Weak and/or shrinking revenue base. No one sharp really minding the business. Probably the most overlooked red flags of all.
Repellent personalities. This is pathology, so a given baseline weirdness goes without saying. I'm talking someone who makes your skin crawl, which is actually an evolutionary survival reflex if you think about it. Ditto corrupt partners engaging in corrupt and/or dubious activity. There is no honor among thieves.
Basically you have to stop thinking like a newbie fixated on deliberately distracting but temporary fluff, like the nugatory goodies you may or may not get during your trial period. Think about what could cause you to quit or lose your position five, ten, fifteen years down the line.
It goes without saying that none of this matters with non-partnership positions, because you shouldn't be there long enough for any of this to make a difference, anyway.
Also when work is not divided evenly among partners (allowing, of course, for easier workloads for those otherwise busy maintaining and especially growing the business. The key here, of course, is busy. Differences in workload and compensation among partners generally do not equilibrate or even stabilize with time. If you can't justify it now, you will grow to despise it later.
Unexplained age gap between partners and minions, with no/few mid-level partners in between. That's churn-and-burn until you prove otherwise.
Prolonged time to partnership (greater than three years), regardless of the very unique and extra-special reason invariably given. There is no reason other than milking you.
Weak and/or shrinking revenue base. No one sharp really minding the business. Probably the most overlooked red flags of all.
Repellent personalities. This is pathology, so a given baseline weirdness goes without saying. I'm talking someone who makes your skin crawl, which is actually an evolutionary survival reflex if you think about it. Ditto corrupt partners engaging in corrupt and/or dubious activity. There is no honor among thieves.
Basically you have to stop thinking like a newbie fixated on deliberately distracting but temporary fluff, like the nugatory goodies you may or may not get during your trial period. Think about what could cause you to quit or lose your position five, ten, fifteen years down the line.
It goes without saying that none of this matters with non-partnership positions, because you shouldn't be there long enough for any of this to make a difference, anyway.
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red flags:
1.) Pathologists freely offer unflattering comments, back handed compliments or outright negative statements on the other folks in the group.
2.) A long list of people who stayed for less than 3 years and left. Often if you ask about it, there is an awkward pause.
3.) Compensation not evenly divided will be very very hard if not impossible to verify as an interviewee. Even professional forensic accountants can have trouble with this one, especially if there is a large non-monetary bonus system at work.
4.) uneven vacation allocation.
5.) remote outposts that are highly undesired by the group, often these are the position with a high turnover. this is where you will go, regardless of what they tell you.
6.) large number of FMGs within the group. 1-2 is fine, but it shouldnt be like 50%+
7.) uneven task allocation, specifically crap tasks like BM procedures, going to IRads for adequacy or GI adequacy for EUS bx or autopsies.
8.) a very very old senior partner who looks like he needs to not only retire but be in hospice care.
9.) no vision for growth.
10.) lots of other stuff that some might find offensive but absolutely true and I can't post here because modern kids need a safe space from any sort of reality.
1.) Pathologists freely offer unflattering comments, back handed compliments or outright negative statements on the other folks in the group.
2.) A long list of people who stayed for less than 3 years and left. Often if you ask about it, there is an awkward pause.
3.) Compensation not evenly divided will be very very hard if not impossible to verify as an interviewee. Even professional forensic accountants can have trouble with this one, especially if there is a large non-monetary bonus system at work.
4.) uneven vacation allocation.
5.) remote outposts that are highly undesired by the group, often these are the position with a high turnover. this is where you will go, regardless of what they tell you.
6.) large number of FMGs within the group. 1-2 is fine, but it shouldnt be like 50%+
7.) uneven task allocation, specifically crap tasks like BM procedures, going to IRads for adequacy or GI adequacy for EUS bx or autopsies.
8.) a very very old senior partner who looks like he needs to not only retire but be in hospice care.
9.) no vision for growth.
10.) lots of other stuff that some might find offensive but absolutely true and I can't post here because modern kids need a safe space from any sort of reality.
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Large number of women in the group for sure. Avoid those places like the plague. It's not much fun coming to work and the girls have their doors shut, not speaking to each other over some BS.
LADoc's #8 cracks me up and is so true. Part of me feels sorry for these types. Make your money, go out and enjoy your remaining days.
LADoc's #8 cracks me up and is so true. Part of me feels sorry for these types. Make your money, go out and enjoy your remaining days.
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The above lists are good ones.
Be wary of "senior partners" - some groups (this is probably less of a problem than it used to be) have pathologists who are still partners even though they are mostly or even totally retired. Yet they have significant say in the financial and work patterns of the group, and still draw money from it. A corollary to this is groups that have two sets of meetings - one for everyone, and one just for the partners (or senior partners). If the group is set up like this, you can pretty much guarantee that these guys are going to be sucking as much $ out of the group for as long as they can, and they are going to feel entitled to it. Sometimes even when they die their spouse will still claim they are entitled to things like health care or whatever.
Ideally, everyone in the group should be on the partnership track or there is specific reason they aren't (like they only want to work part time and don't want the responsibility of being a partner).
Uneven vacation is a big clue. There are groups where the older folks get more vacation. Why? Because they're old. But they don't get paid less! In our group we can take as much vacation as we want, but everyone gets the same number of "required" vacation days and if you go past that you are essentially paying for it (which is fine if you want to).
The interpersonal stuff would be difficult to assess - you want to avoid groups that are divided into camps or passive aggressive or whatever. Like whether some partners help out with people who need last minute call coverage or emergencies or offer to take work from someone else on a busy day. That can be hard to assess. Ideally you could find the members of the group who are sane and rational and they would be honest with you about this, but would be tough to truly gauge.
But the most important ones are 1)what happened to the last few hires. Are they all still there? Did they all leave after 3 years and if so why? Does the group still keep in touch with them and would they give you their contact info to ask about the group? Hard to ask that but if they are good they would volunteer that info. But yes, if everyone in the group is either 2 years out of training and overworked OR they are long time group members for 25 years and seem happy and casual, that might be a problem. and 2) What does the future of the group look like? Do they have a plan? Are they growing or shrinking? Are they on good terms with the hospital or are they in a tenuous relationship?
Be wary of "senior partners" - some groups (this is probably less of a problem than it used to be) have pathologists who are still partners even though they are mostly or even totally retired. Yet they have significant say in the financial and work patterns of the group, and still draw money from it. A corollary to this is groups that have two sets of meetings - one for everyone, and one just for the partners (or senior partners). If the group is set up like this, you can pretty much guarantee that these guys are going to be sucking as much $ out of the group for as long as they can, and they are going to feel entitled to it. Sometimes even when they die their spouse will still claim they are entitled to things like health care or whatever.
Ideally, everyone in the group should be on the partnership track or there is specific reason they aren't (like they only want to work part time and don't want the responsibility of being a partner).
Uneven vacation is a big clue. There are groups where the older folks get more vacation. Why? Because they're old. But they don't get paid less! In our group we can take as much vacation as we want, but everyone gets the same number of "required" vacation days and if you go past that you are essentially paying for it (which is fine if you want to).
The interpersonal stuff would be difficult to assess - you want to avoid groups that are divided into camps or passive aggressive or whatever. Like whether some partners help out with people who need last minute call coverage or emergencies or offer to take work from someone else on a busy day. That can be hard to assess. Ideally you could find the members of the group who are sane and rational and they would be honest with you about this, but would be tough to truly gauge.
But the most important ones are 1)what happened to the last few hires. Are they all still there? Did they all leave after 3 years and if so why? Does the group still keep in touch with them and would they give you their contact info to ask about the group? Hard to ask that but if they are good they would volunteer that info. But yes, if everyone in the group is either 2 years out of training and overworked OR they are long time group members for 25 years and seem happy and casual, that might be a problem. and 2) What does the future of the group look like? Do they have a plan? Are they growing or shrinking? Are they on good terms with the hospital or are they in a tenuous relationship?
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That seems a little harsh and blanket, no? I don't think women pathologists are intrinsically more or less anti-social than male paths.
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I generally have my door shut because I figure the transcriptionists will not appreciate whatever brand of trip hop, old school rap, 60s folk, or peruvian flute music is fitting my mood for the hour. I hope that's not being perceived as antisocial. I'm just trying to avoid having to edit "NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR REGULATE ANYMORE, YOU INCONSIDERATE HARPY!!!!" out of my reports.
I'm finding a blend of ages to be even more important than a blend of sexes.
I'm finding a blend of ages to be even more important than a blend of sexes.
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It probably depends on the set up of your offices and if others keep their doors open. We have an open door policy and the only reason our doors would be closed is if you were in a meeting or on a private phone call. It allows other pathologists and clinicians to stop by and interact because they can see what you're doing. I think it would be different if our offices had windows into the corridor or on the door so others could see in, but how it is now, it's hard to judge whether to knock and disturb or not. If we are busy, we keep the doors open just enough so people can see in, but otherwise, they are wide open.
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My group has a couple of people whose doors are usually shut, but this isn't because they don't want people to come in. If we don't want to be disturbed we put a sign on our door. Mine is always open unless I'm on a conference call (speaker phone!) or it's some sort of private convo.
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Disagree. Female pathologists are often married to a similarly high wage earners and are more apt to go part-time/retire when they want to raise families. This allows you to keep the group lean, add newbies and increase your income.
