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[bluecolourskies]

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Hello, I had a question about what is “normal” in this field. I’m looking for jobs and I see none of the private organizations/group practices/etc mention a salary or pay in the job listing.

I hate this because for internship and postdoc, the stipend and benefits were VERY clearly stated, regardless if it was a government or private setting.

When applying, I want to ask about salary, typical schedule, etc and there is never a contact listed. Just an application link.

One time I did ask to speak to someone about a listing, and got a reply back that said “apply first, after we review your CV we will be glad to follow up.”

Well what if I don’t want to bother filling out all the fields (including a stupid question about desired salary- $1,000,000,000 obviously!) only to find out the job will require me to work weekends or something. Then I wouldn’t have applied in the first place.

Apologize if I sound very naive or inexperienced. I didn’t realize what a generous benefit it was to have all this information available when applying for internships!

 

[Sanman]

Welcome to the real world. Those answers go something like this:

Salary: As little as I can get away with paying you
Hours: As many as I can get you to work.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Here is a thread about salary and job hunting. They pop up here and there, but this is an area that we should want to talk about a lot more. Hopefully this helps. Calculating salary vs cost of living/ moving out of state

 

[Temperance]

Many jurisdictions have requirements to post or otherwise provide information upon request about compensation (list from January 2022), so check if this is the case for you based on where you or the prospective employer are located. You can also find crowd-sourced information for specific employers through sites such as Glassdoor and Indeed, keeping in mind that they are not necessarily reliable.

You can look up wages for specific job titles that the Bureau of Labor Statistics tracks localized to your state or ZIP code (e.g. clinical and counseling psychologists in California). This may not be as helpful for settings where your negotiations are for percentage of revenue, but it could serve as a starting point for positions where you're earning a wage/salary.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You can also look up public employees at universities medical centers, which will give you an idea about salary. It's not perfect bc there are research dollars for some, but it should provide a range. Of course there is the neuropsych salary survey (2020), which can run on the high side if you are a generalist. There is also a rehab psych salary survey (2022), which I haven't looked at closely, but I know the authors and they are quality researchers and I'm sure did a great job.

 

[WisNeuro]

Also, consider that many private practices have a lot of flexibility, so providing an initial salary, or even range estimate can be difficult unless they are constraining what you are doing quite a bit. How many contact hours are you working, assessment, therapy, mix? What kind of assessment? They may also offer wage or IC positions, which will also vary your salary estimates.

 

[lily_pad]

Honestly, this is a problem across the board in all industries. I believe New York just passed a salary transparency law which is a step in the right direction. It ends up wasting everyone's time when you go through the trouble of applying for a job only to find out the salary is way below your pay grade.

 

[bluecolourskies]

Honestly, this is a problem across the board in all industries. I believe New York just passed a salary transparency law which is a step in the right direction. It ends up wasting everyone's time when you go through the trouble of applying for a job only to find out the salary is way below your pay grade.

Washington did too!!! <3

But I heard a way to get around that is to post a salary range, like $10,000-$90,000. Idk I havent read the legislature but you know some people will find a problem with that 😒

 

[bluecolourskies]

You can also look up public employees at universities medical centers, which will give you an idea about salary. It's not perfect bc there are research dollars for some, but it should provide a range. Of course there is the neuropsych salary survey (2020), which can run on the high side if you are a generalist. There is also a rehab psych salary survey (2022), which I haven't looked at closely, but I know the authors and they are quality researchers and I'm sure did a great job.

I’m not into either of those but thats awesome those exist!! I’ll look more to see if there are any for inpatient psych

 

[bluecolourskies]

Also, consider that many private practices have a lot of flexibility, so providing an initial salary, or even range estimate can be difficult unless they are constraining what you are doing quite a bit. How many contact hours are you working, assessment, therapy, mix? What kind of assessment? They may also offer wage or IC positions, which will also vary your salary estimates.

Then they can put the split! 😡 (this is just me being frustrated at the lack of transparency)

 

[bluecolourskies]

Here is a thread about salary and job hunting. They pop up here and there, but this is an area that we should want to talk about a lot more. Hopefully this helps. Calculating salary vs cost of living/ moving out of state

I also posted this thread haha but this Q was a little different so I started a different thread 🙂

 

[WisNeuro]

Then they can put the split! 😡 (this is just me being frustrated at the lack of transparency)

Honestly, the split is negotiable. Do you want to come work for me with full benefits as a traditional W2 employee, or do you want your LLC to come work for me? My splits in those situations are very different.

When it comes to institutional jobs, I agree, transparency should be standard. But, as for PP, way too many possible variations and dependent variables.

 

[smalltownpsych]

A good employer doesn’t want to waste their time either. If they do waste your time too much that tells you something important about the job. Salary is a key aspect of why to take a job, obviously, but in my early career, I was just grateful for opportunities that provided reasonable pay while affording solid experience that could set me up for success. Cast a wide net, sift through the bs and be ready to say no unless it meets your criteria.

If the job is one you want, tell them that clearly and tell them what you would accept and then stop talking. After they give their number, don’t respond unless it’s the number you want. Make them uncomfortable in the silence and let them start explaining why they gave a low offer. Be pleasant and calm, but quiet and eager to listen. When they are done, restate succinctly why it’s a great job for you and that you would love to make it work and as I stated previously, I really need x to make it work. Smile and wait calmly and quietly. Put the pressure on them. Make them say no and end the negotiations. Don’t make the mistake that us nice psychologist types do and rescue them from the uncomfortable situation. Use the pressure wisely. I’m exaggerating a little in my description to help make the point, but I had a lot of experience in sales prior and I have used these techniques to negotiate fairly good salaries as a licensed psychologist.

 

[thebalmofhurtminds]

A good employer doesn’t want to waste their time either. If they do waste your time too much that tells you something important about the job. Salary is a key aspect of why to take a job, obviously, but in my early career, I was just grateful for opportunities that provided reasonable pay while affording solid experience that could set me up for success. Cast a wide net, sift through the bs and be ready to say no unless it meets your criteria.

If the job is one you want, tell them that clearly and tell them what you would accept and then stop talking. After they give their number, don’t respond unless it’s the number you want. Make them uncomfortable in the silence and let them start explaining why they gave a low offer. Be pleasant and calm, but quiet and eager to listen. When they are done, restate succinctly why it’s a great job for you and that you would love to make it work and as I stated previously, I really need x to make it work. Smile and wait calmly and quietly. Put the pressure on them. Make them say no and end the negotiations. Don’t make the mistake that us nice psychologist types do and rescue them from the uncomfortable situation. Use the pressure wisely. I’m exaggerating a little in my description to help make the point, but I had a lot of experience in sales prior and I have used these techniques to negotiate fairly good salaries as a licensed psychologist.

I can't recommend this advice enough. So many of our trainees fall into the situation where they ask for something in their first job negotiations - salary range, PD funds, moving costs, what have you - and the potential employer will respond with something like "Oh, I don't know, we haven't done that before..." or some other such non-response and an eager-to-please-and-get-a-job trainee instinct is to jump in and say "Oh, I understand" or "Oh, that's okay" - DO NOT DO THIS. Sit there with that response. Let them outright reject it. Do not save them.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I saw an ad sent on a listserv for a DBT therapist that actually advertised the price. I had to check more details when they posted 125k-150k (20 clients) starting. Saw that it was San Fran and realized that still isn't enough money for that region.

 

[erg923]

I saw an ad sent on a listserv for a DBT therapist that actually advertised the price. I had to check more details when they posted 125k-150k (20 clients) starting. Saw that it was San Fran and realized that still isn't enough money for that region.

They will probably have will live in a box in down in Redwood City if they aren't married and want to have any kind of life.

 

[bluecolourskies]

Honestly, the split is negotiable. Do you want to come work for me with full benefits as a traditional W2 employee, or do you want your LLC to come work for me? My splits in those situations are very different.

When it comes to institutional jobs, I agree, transparency should be standard. But, as for PP, way too many possible variations and dependent variables.

Thank you for the explanation 🙂 Like I said, I’m very new at all this

 

[bluecolourskies]

I can't recommend this advice enough. So many of our trainees fall into the situation where they ask for something in their first job negotiations - salary range, PD funds, moving costs, what have you - and the potential employer will respond with something like "Oh, I don't know, we haven't done that before..." or some other such non-response and an eager-to-please-and-get-a-job trainee instinct is to jump in and say "Oh, I understand" or "Oh, that's okay" - DO NOT DO THIS. Sit there with that response. Let them outright reject it. Do not save them.

Thank you, I love this board so much!!

 

[bluecolourskies]

I can't recommend this advice enough. So many of our trainees fall into the situation where they ask for something in their first job negotiations - salary range, PD funds, moving costs, what have you - and the potential employer will respond with something like "Oh, I don't know, we haven't done that before..." or some other such non-response and an eager-to-please-and-get-a-job trainee instinct is to jump in and say "Oh, I understand" or "Oh, that's okay" - DO NOT DO THIS. Sit there with that response. Let them outright reject it. Do not save them.

Another question- when negotiating, if it’s with an organization, do I bring up my request for movings costs to the psychologists during the interview or to the HR person?
What if I get a call/email from the psychologist (who may not have control over salary) that they are offering me the position- do I tell them I need to speak to HR first and I cannot accept until HR guarantees that the moving cost reimbursement will be in my contract? (i am using movings costs as an example)

I am forever grateful for this wonderful board and everyone’s wisdom!

 

[bluecolourskies]

This pay for a psychologist position for Valor Telehealth is crap but I sure do appreciate the transparency.

 

[WisNeuro]

Is that hourly rate per contact hour, or what you would make for a 40/hr week?.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

LOL. If a full therapy hour for $70 is a 90834, then perhaps 38 min hard stop 90834s back to back for a full day at $70/hr..... maybe then? Yikes.

 

[WisNeuro]

Oh wait, this is for an IC position, yeah, if those rates are the ceiling for a non-benefit position. Hard no.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Another question- when negotiating, if it’s with an organization, do I bring up my request for movings costs to the psychologists during the interview or to the HR person?
What if I get a call/email from the psychologist (who may not have control over salary) that they are offering me the position- do I tell them I need to speak to HR first and I cannot accept until HR guarantees that the moving cost reimbursement will be in my contract? (i am using movings costs as an example)

I am forever grateful for this wonderful board and everyone’s wisdom!

I don’t like to negotiate with HR or a department head that doesn’t decide the salary. Of course, the people who are making the decisions want the buffer as it gives them an edge. Early career, you might have less choice in the matter and you just have to weigh what they offer with how beneficial the position will be for your career. For example, I didnt even negotiate my first job as a licensed psychologist because they offered my minimum salary wise and provided some key management and supervisory experience that was in line with my career goals. I did ask for help with moving expenses and they gave me a few grand, but I wasn’t really negotiating. Just letting them know that years of being underpaid as a student left me a little broke. Just prior to accepting that position, I interviewed for another job that offered me such a low salary that I didn’t even bother to negotiate. My next career steps were when I really began to negotiate more. It is also easier to negotiate when you already have a solid position so take our advice with a grain of salt because the key thing is to get to work.

 

[summerbabe]

Another question- when negotiating, if it’s with an organization, do I bring up my request for movings costs to the psychologists during the interview or to the HR person?
What if I get a call/email from the psychologist (who may not have control over salary) that they are offering me the position- do I tell them I need to speak to HR first and I cannot accept until HR guarantees that the moving cost reimbursement will be in my contract? (i am using movings costs as an example)

I am forever grateful for this wonderful board and everyone’s wisdom!

Take this with a grain of salt as I’ve only worked in the VA where things like salary and incentives are pretty much baked in.

You can ask the interviewer whether incentives such as relocation are available at this org and if so, how could one go about inquiring.

It might be something the dept has already been authorized as needed or something that the dept has to initiate within the org (and potentially be denied). Or something 100% within the control of HR.

Whether you do this during the interview itself or once you’ve received a tentative offer will depend. If I were in your shoes, I’d probably make a soft ask during the interview.

But if the hiring org is looking to pay the bare minimum and willing to sacrifice quality of candidate to do so AND it’s a great early career opportunity to stay 1.5-3 years and jump to something much better, asking too much about salary could be a sign that you might not be a good fit (but that business/org probably isn’t the best place to work). Good luck!