Jobs with ECFMG certification ONLY

[atria78]

What kind of jobs can someone (US Citizen) with a MBBS (india) degree do with just the ECFMG certification and not the license to practice in the US? (which you can only do after USMLE 3 exam and a residency program)

I think I've read somewhere there are some options like in the FDA or some other government jobs. Can someone clarify/elaborate?

Thanks.

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[The Pill Counter]

you could start residency training. ecfmg certification is all you need, and license issues come later

 

[atria78]

Oops, I forgot to leave one detail out. Lets say, residency is not something that we would want to do. Are there options or is the whole MBBS degree and the certification useless till another 3+ years of residencies.

 

[Miklos]

Oops, I forgot to leave one detail out. Lets say, residency is not something that we would want to do. Are there options or is the whole MBBS degree and the certification useless till another 3+ years of residencies.

1) Without full licensure, you cannot practice medicine independently (e.g. outside a residency program).
2) Without residency training, you cannot get a license nor board-certification.
3) Without board-certification, your options to practice medicine are limited as it is a requirement for many jobs and many insurance companies will not reimburse you for your services.

The minimum residency training period for IMGs is set by states. To my knowledge, only one state has a one year requirement for IMGs - Arkansas. Iowa had a one year requirement, but is increasing it to two years as of next year. A number of states have two year requirements for IMGs and an apparently growing number require three years for IMGs. The FSMB recommends that all state med boards require three years of post-graduate training for both US graduates and IMGs.

As far as other jobs are concerned, see this AMA FAQ.

Q. I’ve tried and tried to get into a residency program, but I can’t get an interview. What can I do?

A. Applying for a residency in the U.S. is extremely competitive for IMGs. There are approximately twice as many IMGs applying as there are available residency positions. The best thing you can do is to get experience in a U.S. healthcare facility before applying to a residency program. It is particularly important to get experience in a facility with a teaching program. This can be difficult, but volunteering may be your best route. If you are unable to get experience in a clinical setting, try to obtain a research position in a hospital laboratory. This may lead to clinical activities.

You may also consider a medical career that doesn’t require patient care. “Leaving the Bedside: The Search for a Nonclinical Medical Career”, a book published by the AMA, is a practical guide that leads the reader through a well-reasoned sequence of steps leading to the successful development of a nonclinical medical career.

You can buy it from the AMA Catalog (Order #OP392096 for $37)

Miklos

 

[retroviridae]

I think you only need to pass step III to get a license in TX. Haven't checked that out myself though.

As for the FDA jobs, look at the FDA website. I saw an ad once in the NEJM.

 

[Miklos]

I think you only need to pass step III to get a license in TX. Haven't checked that out myself though.

If you don't know, why post something like that?

See http://www.tsbme.state.tx.us/rules/rules/163.htm#1633

63.3. Licensure for Graduates of Acceptable Unapproved Foreign Medical Schools.
To be eligible for licensure, an applicant who is a graduate from a school outside the United States or Canada must:

(1) be 21 years of age;

(2) be of good professional character as defined under §163.1(10) of this title;

(3) have completed 60 semester hours of college courses as defined under §163.1(12) of this title;

(4) be a graduate of an acceptable unapproved medical school as defined under §163.1(2) of this title;

(5) have successfully completed a three-year training program of graduate medical training in the United States or Canada as defined under §163.1(15) of this title;

(6) submit evidence of passing an examination accepted by the board for licensure as defined under §163.1(9) of this title;

(7) pass the Texas Medical Jurisprudence Examination with a score of 75 or better within three attempts;

(8) be eligible for licensure in country of graduation as defined under §163.1(8) of this title;

(9) possess a valid certificate issued by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG);

(10) have the ability to communicate in the English language; and

(11) have supplied all additional information that the board may require concerning the applicant's medical school.

As for the FDA jobs, look at the FDA website. I saw an ad once in the NEJM.

See http://www.fda.gov/jobs/medofficer.htm

Description of Position

Medical officers at FDA perform duties that:

* ensuring all human drugs manufactured for interstate sale are safe and effective with truthful and informative product labeling
* ensuring the safety, potency, purity and effectiveness of vaccines, blood products, certain diagnostic products and other biological and biotechnology-derived human products
* ensuring the safety and effectiveness of medical devices and eliminating unnecessary human exposure to manmade radiation from medical, occupational and consumer products
* conducting inspections and investigations of food and drug manufacturing establishments, performing analytical work and recommending enforcement actions.

Grade (Salary) Levels

The federal General Schedule (GS) grade levels at which these position are most commonly filled are GS-14 and 15. Non-supervisory positions will be subject to peer review of individual accomplishments.

For a list of GS-grade salaries, see http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/B5A.htm.

Qualifications

Doctor of Medicine or Doctor of Osteopathy from a school in the United States or Canada approved by a recognized accrediting body in the year of the applicant's graduation; OR a Doctor of Medicine or equivalent degree from a foreign medical school that provided education and medical knowledge substantially equivalent to accredited schools in the United States. Comparability may be demonstrated by permanent certification by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) or a fifth pathway certificate for American students who completed premedical education in the United States and graduate education in a foreign country.

* For GS-14 - Four years of residency training in the specialty of the position to be filled or equivalent experience and training.
* For GS-15 - Five years of residency training in the specialty of the position to be filled or equivalent experience and training. (A residency program involves training in a specialized field of medicine in an institution accredited for training in the specialty by a recognized body of the American Medical Association).

 

[retroviridae]

Ouch.

Why post it? To try and be helpful. That's why there was a ... disclaimer!

Just info I heard on the interview trail from IMGs in TX. I was a bit dubious, so again, that's why there was a disclaimer.

As for the FDA, I have seen more than one advert in the NEJM saying all you needed was ECFMG cert. Obviously, they wouldn't pay as much as someone with a cert ... but if you have a green card it is a job. CDC has other options too, but you have to get a MPH, I believe (although there are in house programs). Again, I have not checked this out in detail (a CDC officer told me there are IMGs who have never done residency there ... I don't know them personally ... have never spoken with them ... maybe it's all a conspiracy).

Why have I not checked these out in detail, because I have a residency and don't care all that much.

Best solution is to improve your CV and get a residency.

 

[Miklos]

Ouch.

Why post it? To try and be helpful. That's why there was a ... disclaimer!

Just info I heard on the interview trail from IMGs in TX. I was a bit dubious, so again, that's why there was a disclaimer.

Nothing personal.

What upsets me is that despite my posting above (in detail) what an IMG needs for licensure, you simply posted rumor.

In the amount of time it takes one to write a misinformed opinion, one can find out for sure.

It took me about thirty seconds to find the citation (haven't seen it before).

How did I do it?

-I googled 'Texas Medical Board'
-Clicked on it
-Clicked Rules/Regulations/Guidelines
-Clicked Board Rules
-Clicked Chapter 163, licensure
-Found the relevant passage and posted it.

If I can do it, anyone can.

Miklos

 

[Skip Intro]

What upsets me is that despite my posting above (in detail) what an IMG needs for licensure, you simply posted rumor.

Thank you, Miklos, for making an important point here. I'm sure that retroviridae had no bad intentions. But, certain others do.

Over the years, what I've often noticed that happens on this forum is that many posters remember something they heard, incorrectly recall it and/or fail to double-check whether or not what they heard was correct, and then post it without much additional thought. Others simply try to pass off their opinions as fact. Some just make-up information.

Everyone should be careful about drawing any conclusions from whatever is read here, especially if it is unsupported by credible links. (See my tagline.)

Your posts just re-emphasize that there's a lot of good information on this forum, and there's a lot of not-so-good information on this forum as well. Thanks again, Miklos, for being one of those good sources of information. 🙂

-Skip

 

[Miklos]

Thank you, Miklos, for making an important point here. I'm sure that retroviridae had no bad intentions. But, certain others do.

Over the years, what I've often noticed that happens on this forum is that many posters remember something they heard, incorrectly recall it and/or fail to double-check whether or not what they heard was correct, and then post it without much additional thought. Others simply try to pass off their opinions as fact. Some just make-up information.

Everyone should be careful about drawing any conclusions from whatever is read here, especially if it is unsupported by credible links. (See my tagline.)

Your posts just re-emphasize that there's a lot of good information on this forum, and there's a lot of not-so-good information on this forum as well. Thanks again, Miklos, for being one of those good sources of information. 🙂

-Skip

All good points. Thanks, Skip.

 

[bts4202]

You can get a job as a Drug Rep

 

[bmcgilligan]

You can get a job as a Drug Rep

That's harder than you might think. Most drug companies want proven sales experience. I tried to get a job as a drug rep for this past year (took a year off between undergrad and med school to get married) but they weren't interested due to my lack of sales experience.

 

[Miklos]

That's harder than you might think. Most drug companies want proven sales experience. I tried to get a job as a drug rep for this past year (took a year off between undergrad and med school to get married) but they weren't interested due to my lack of sales experience.

Fair enough, but you didn't have an M.D. either.

I suspect that someone who does and has excellent communications skills may have an easier time.

 

[PsychMD]

I think that you also have to be pretty good looking to get a drug rep job! 😉

 

[Saipan]

A sales job is a sales job is a sales job.....! Car salesmen, stockbrokers, real estate agents, and drug company reps....they all work off commission. The M.D. might get you in the door, but it won't help you keep a job. Any body can do that job if they can make the sales. If you can't meet the monthly quotas, then you are just some underperformer with a useless piece of sheepskin.

 

[atria78]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

One more thing, what about PA *like* jobs? I know it has its own license, but with a MBBS could someone do such a job? (meaning, can someone goto a doc's office and actually apply and get this sort of job)

I looked at salary.com and PA looks pretty good, I think almost 85K.

 

[PsychMD]

Re. PA (physician assistant):

One needs a PA-specific education and PA license for a PA job. One cannot get a PA license with a MD-education/degree. You have to get a specific PA education. California has a special program for non-US-licensed IMG's with a foreign MD degree that allows them to eventually get a PA license, BUT they STILL have to go to special courses/further PA study here in the US before they can finally get their PA license for CA. See here http://physicianassistant.ca.gov/imp.htm


I think that instead of PA (Physician Assistant), you were thinking instead of a "Medical assistant". "Medical assistants are unlicensed individuals who perform non-invasive routine technical support services under the supervision of a licensed physician and surgeon in a medical office or clinic setting. The supervising physician and surgeon must be on the premises in order for the medical assistant to perform those non-invasive techinical support services." I took this definition off the CA Medical Board site.

Now, of course, the rules/regulations for licensure and/or certifications and scopes of practice for PA's may be a little different from state to state. PA is a highly regulated profession pretty much across the board these days.

MA's, OTOH, are not a highly regulated "profession" or job. In most offices I guess they mostly do receptionist/secretarial stuff, even billing; they can take a blood pressure here and there, or take a verbal history of present illness/medical history. With a MD education, one would be way over-qualified to get such a job, and probably no one would think of hiring someone with an MD education/even if not yet licensed as an MA. A MA's earns around 26K.

 

[atria78]

I was thinking PA, not MA. Like you said, MBBS is overkill for MA. I looked at the site, looks to be good information. I just wanted a little clarfication, the 'PAC approved training programs' is referring to: http://www.aapa.org/pgmlist.php3 right?

Thanks for the input everone. I needed some options (medical related) for MBBS degree. I am thinking PA is the best option... doing research or doing secretary work isn't too great.

One more question, on this site: http://www.aapa.org/gandp/rxchart.html what does 'Sch. II-III' mean? What are these levels? What levels does a licensed physician get? 😀

 

[Winged Scapula]

One more question, on this site: http://www.aapa.org/gandp/rxchart.html what does 'Sch. II-III' mean? What are these levels? What levels does a licensed physician get? 😀

This refers to the list of Controlled Substances (ie, things you need a prescription to get). A licensed physician can generally get a DEA number for all schedules (ie, including Schedule 1 drugs, narcotics) unless they have a legal action against them for the inappropriate use of such substances. Therefore, you will see that PAs do not have license to write prescriptions for Schedule 1 and 2 substances.

You can see the list of Schedules at:

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/schedules.htm

 

[Dramkinola]

So did anyone ever actually answer the original question?
Like say a person gets ECFMG certification in June... Residency is out of the question for a year...
But say the person is looking for something other than Research or observerships?
Are there any other options that pay?

(Yes I could Google... and I am at the moment... just looking for any advice or options I may not find or think of...)

 

[svalentePA-C]

This refers to the list of Controlled Substances (ie, things you need a prescription to get). A licensed physician can generally get a DEA number for all schedules (ie, including Schedule 1 drugs, narcotics) unless they have a legal action against them for the inappropriate use of such substances. Therefore, you will see that PAs do not have license to write prescriptions for Schedule 1 and 2 substances.

You can see the list of Schedules at:

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/schedules.htm

As a PA i can tell you that first of all noone other than research instituitions canget a schedule I. Narcotics are schedule II and yes I can write Schedule II-V. PA's can write for scheduled products in about 30 states.

 

[realmdo]

What kind of jobs can someone (US Citizen) with a MBBS (india) degree do with just the ECFMG certification and not the license to practice in the US? (which you can only do after USMLE 3 exam and a residency program)

I think I've read somewhere there are some options like in the FDA or some other government jobs. Can someone clarify/elaborate?

Thanks.[/QU

the only purpose of ECFMG certificate is for the application of US residency and medical license after residency. if you can find a residency spot, great. if not, it's just a piece of useless paper. in this country, every professional field has its own certificate or license, a MD can't be a RN, PA or whatever you think that you can do, otherwisw there will be too many ECFMG certified RN, PA, PT,etc..... oh i forget, you don't need anything to do research asistant job, they are foreigners dominanted cheap job anyway, got it?