Jobs with no salary listed on Gaswork

[Outrigger]

Am I right to think that jobs that don't list the salary on Gaswork are less than trustworthy? Not to say there isn't a real job being offered but it is either below market value or they are trying to keep other members in the group from knowing what is being offered. What else might they be hiding? There are too many job postings to bother contacting these groups in my opinion. I don't want to play salary games with a new employer.

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[aneftp]

Give us a link. We can figure it out.

Too many variables with compensation.

My base compensation is low on paper. But I have a ton of perks.

 

[Mehd School]

It's probably state dependent, but any job on gaswork gets one eyebrow raised from me. In my state at least the good jobs have zero problems filling just by word of mouth. Maybe bigger groups of 25+ MD/DO might be a different story. But I have turned down jobs for various reasons and when I see that posting on gaswork a month or two later I'm not terribly surprised.

 

[POW16]

Am I right to think that jobs that don't list the salary on Gaswork are less than trustworthy? Not to say there isn't a real job being offered but it is either below market value or they are trying to keep other members in the group from knowing what is being offered. What else might they be hiding? There are too many job postings to bother contacting these groups in my opinion. I don't want to play salary games with a new employer.

I think you may be missing out. Most academic jobs for example never list salary. Some gems out there with reasonable work life balance, tons of perks, and decent salary with opportunities to earn more. Salary is important of course but there a lot more things to consider.

 

[IMGASMD]

Salary transparency is important, however I agree with what’s said above already.

It’s hard to quantify salary and perks/benefits. I interviewed at a job that listed as no call! Great. Then you learn that they give their partners post call day off, and you’re stuck there 7-3/5 with 4 weeks of vacation.

Or you joined a group who “fully fund” your 401K. But you’re actually responsible for your own contribution. (21K)

Health insurance (for most PP, it’s taken care of by the company). For most AMCs, you’d have to pay some portion of it. (30K)

Malpractice. (20K)
So it’s a swing of 70K + business expenses.


Some of these things are usually not recognized by the new grads as important details.

With that said, I’d still appreciate a range of some sort.

 

[GassYous]

It's probably state dependent, but any job on gaswork gets one eyebrow raised from me. In my state at least the good jobs have zero problems filling just by word of mouth. Maybe bigger groups of 25+ MD/DO might be a different story. But I have turned down jobs for various reasons and when I see that posting on gaswork a month or two later I'm not terribly surprised.

I think it's not as telling these days with the amount of churn and locums. I've even seen a group that's praised here as a top group advertise on gaswork.

 

[aneftp]

Without an actual link. It’s hard to guess. Often times is recruiter trying to get into the their own ad piggy backing the official ad by the group or hospital. So they can grab the 30-40k finder’s fee.

 

[Lecithin5]

Our amazing PP practice job has been listed for years on Gas (large group), without salary listed, because salaries can range (from say, 400k to 1M)

 

[kidthor]

I’m in CA and the state requires a salary range for all postings…. Which I think is a good thing for transparency and equity.

 

[vector2]

Am I right to think that jobs that don't list the salary on Gaswork are less than trustworthy? Not to say there isn't a real job being offered but it is either below market value or they are trying to keep other members in the group from knowing what is being offered. What else might they be hiding? There are too many job postings to bother contacting these groups in my opinion. I don't want to play salary games with a new employer.

I wouldn't read too much into it. There are good jobs without salary listed, good jobs with salary listed, horrible jobs with salary listed, and horrible jobs without salary listed.

You usually need a lot more details beyond what's in the posting to fully appreciate what's going on with a job.

 

[GassYous]

I'd rather have no numbers than fake numbers or massaged numbers.

Like 250/h is very different from 250/h of OR time.

 

[Realgassy]

I recently found a new job via gasworks. The posted salary doesn’t have much meaning without avg hours and call requirements. Not a single job out of the 5 I looked at listed this info. Spent a good bit of time on the phone doing prelim calls to get the info, but better than wasting time interviewing for a job I had no interest in. I always spoke directly with the group, never a recruiter.

 

[GassYous]

I recently found a new job via gasworks. The posted salary doesn’t have much meaning without avg hours and call requirements. Not a single job out of the 5 I looked at listed this info. Spent a good bit of time on the phone doing prelim calls to get the info, but better than wasting time interviewing for a job I had no interest in. I always spoke directly with the group, never a recruiter.

I hate it when groups are shady with the numbers. Tell me roughly the hours and the pay. It's not a trade secret and directly impacts my decision making. It's not an easy thing to take a day or two off to fly somewhere and interview.

I remember one phone interview where the lady brought up their unit value saying that it was good and then told me off for being rude when I asked what it was. Wouldn't even give me a salary range.

 

[Anesthesia_Guy]

Jobs with no salary? Yankee with no brim!

 

[cchoukal]

We post on gasworks from time to time, and include a range, but as others have said, and as is true with our group, the actual number varies quite a bit with how much people (chose to) work. We show our applicants, pretty early on, the full financial picture, including spreadsheets of every member's collections. I found this a bit bewildering because there was so much variability. Now that I've joined, I can see why: the group promotes lots of different work styles. Some members are older and want to fill in gaps in the AM. Others job share. Others are super hungry and crush units all day every day. In the end, this is a great arrangement, but I could see why a group like our's wouldn't put a number on GW, because it is close to meaningless.

 

[GassYous]

We post on gasworks from time to time, and include a range, but as others have said, and as is true with our group, the actual number varies quite a bit with how much people (chose to) work. We show our applicants, pretty early on, the full financial picture, including spreadsheets of every member's collections. I found this a bit bewildering because there was so much variability. Now that I've joined, I can see why: the group promotes lots of different work styles. Some members are older and want to fill in gaps in the AM. Others job share. Others are super hungry and crush units all day every day. In the end, this is a great arrangement, but I could see why a group like our's wouldn't put a number on GW, because it is close to meaningless.

But you can say "the median is about this amount" or "a typical call taking full timer would make roughly this much".

 

[Bertelman]

But you can say "the median is about this amount" or "a typical call taking full timer would make roughly this much".

I’m not sure that information would be relevant, or helpful, given the breadth of lifestyle choices people like to make these days. I’m in a group that was once a one-size-fits-all model. Identical salary, identical shift distribution, with annual equitable distribution of profits.

In 12 years that pendulum has swung to a point where 30% of our workforce wants some tailored schedule to fit exactly how they perceive their life. Now we are struggling with how to equitably pay people for their bespoke schedules.

In the end, I personally think posting salaries on Gaswork is just a smoke screen. They are inflated, deceptive, and not really beneficial to the job search process. Reach out to the group. Have a couple conversations. Figure out if you like their model and their people.

 

[cchoukal]

What Bertelman said. Except that in our case, that flexibility really seems to work for our practice and our members.

 

[GassYous]

I’m not sure that information would be relevant, or helpful, given the breadth of lifestyle choices people like to make these days. I’m in a group that was once a one-size-fits-all model. Identical salary, identical shift distribution, with annual equitable distribution of profits.

In 12 years that pendulum has swung to a point where 30% of our workforce wants some tailored schedule to fit exactly how they perceive their life. Now we are struggling with how to equitably pay people for their bespoke schedules.

In the end, I personally think posting salaries on Gaswork is just a smoke screen. They are inflated, deceptive, and not really beneficial to the job search process. Reach out to the group. Have a couple conversations. Figure out if you like their model and their people.

Call once a week 40 hours a week for roughly 500k. I mean it's not hard to say 300 or 600 or 900. Show them your tax return and tell them your hours. Or you can say your unit value and typical units per year. Just ballpark it so people have an idea.

 

[Bertelman]

Call once a week 40 hours a week for roughly 500k. I mean it's not hard to say 300 or 600 or 900. Show them your tax return and tell them your hours. Or you can say your unit value and typical units per year. Just ballpark it so people have an idea.

I get it. But this is not Burger King. We aren’t 17 y/o kids trying to get another 50 cents per hour.

This is a profession, and you are joining a practice. Yes, the money matters. But there are many other factors you should be considering before joining a group. Hospital relationship, surgeon relationship, partner relationship, anesthetists, etc.

To reduce the job to a salary is just short-sighted. I’m sure groups choose not to list that for one of two reasons:

They don’t want to scare someone off because they offer 50k less than another group

OR

They don’t want to attract people that are just chasing the dollar.

 

[kidthor]

To reduce the job to a salary is just short-sighted. I’m sure groups choose not to list that for one of two reasons:

They don’t want to scare someone off because they offer 50k less than another group

OR

They don’t want to attract people that are just chasing the dollar.

Or they're sketchy and still have partners skim heavily off the top, or their finances are completely messed up and they don't know what they're doing, or their unit value is incredibly low and they're going to sell to PE soon.

All of us are working for money. Yes the rest of factors are highly important too. But salary is always part of the big picture - to hide the salary is a suspect move in my opinion. Giving a rough range should always be possible, and in many states is now required.

This is a profession

Agreed - but more and more we are employees while hanging onto the illusory notion that we're a learned professional held to some other “higher” standard. These notions are often used against us.

 

[Bertelman]

Or they're sketchy and still have partners skim heavily off the top, or their finances are completely messed up and they don't know what they're doing, or their unit value is incredibly low and they're going to sell to PE soon.

All of us are working for money. Yes the rest of factors are highly important too. But salary is always part of the big picture - to hide the salary is a suspect move in my opinion. Giving a rough range should always be possible, and in many states is now required.


Agreed - but more and more we are employees while hanging onto the illusory notion that we're a learned professional held to some other standard. These notions are often used against us.

Agree with what you are saying. But honestly, if a group is sketchy, they are going to mislead with the GasWork post anyways. Getting a salary listing on a job posting is not some magical elixir to prevent groups from screwing you. Believe me, I know from experience.

I'm not saying the salary should be hidden per se, but we aren't exactly the only profession where salaries aren't posted on a job listing. It's merely a job listing. The geographical area and parameters of the practice should interest you, at which point you contact the practice and arrange for an interview or phone call. You should be able to suss out some details during that conversation. But believe me, simply posting a salary doesn't guarantee in any world that you will be getting that salary on day one, or day one thousand and one. So it's just noise, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[kidthor]

Agree with what you are saying. But honestly, if a group is sketchy, they are going to mislead with the GasWork post anyways. Getting a salary listing on a job posting is not some magical elixir to prevent groups from screwing you. Believe me, I know from experience.

I'm not saying the salary should be hidden per se, but we aren't exactly the only profession where salaries aren't posted on a job listing. It's merely a job listing. The geographical area and parameters of the practice should interest you, at which point you contact the practice and arrange for an interview or phone call. You should be able to suss out some details during that conversation. But believe me, simply posting a salary doesn't guarantee in any world that you will be getting that salary on day one, or day one thousand and one. So it's just noise, as far as I'm concerned.

One thought - law firms are incredibly similar to private practice anesthesia groups in their structure (partners, associates, somewhat variable billing), yet law firms are able to give very specific info on what associates will be paid and for how much work.

I agree of course that the group could post a “good” number and it could still be an undesirable setup for various reasons.

Whatever the case I think they should post something reasonable in good faith…

 

[Bertelman]

Agree, but law firms set their own rates. Pretty easy to predict. We bill X per hour, our young associates will bill Y hours, partners will skim Z off the top.

I wish Anesthesia was that predictable.

 

[GravelRider]

What Bertelman said. Except that in our case, that flexibility really seems to work for our practice and our members.

I’m assuming when you are hiring a candidate, you are not hiring someone who is vague with how much he or she wants to work. “I’ll work as much as I feel like working” is probably not an acceptable answer from a candidate. Well, “you’ll make what you make” is an equally unacceptable response. Every single group is capable of providing a pretty good estimate of what the income or even potential income is. If not, I would have serious questions or doubts about the group’s accounting practices.

 

[GassYous]

I get it. But this is not Burger King. We aren’t 17 y/o kids trying to get another 50 cents per hour.

This is a profession, and you are joining a practice. Yes, the money matters. But there are many other factors you should be considering before joining a group. Hospital relationship, surgeon relationship, partner relationship, anesthetists, etc.

To reduce the job to a salary is just short-sighted. I’m sure groups choose not to list that for one of two reasons:

They don’t want to scare someone off because they offer 50k less than another group

OR

They don’t want to attract people that are just chasing the dollar.

You don't know about the relationships before you start. If a group is falling apart because a few toxic people are ruining it for everyone, no one is going to tell you about that. It is very person dependent as well.

 

[IMGASMD]

There’s a lot of mystery in physician pay. We can already see in this thread. We typically don’t like to talk about pay in front of other physicians, certainly not in presence of nurses/patients.

I think it’s even more mystifying for anesthesiologists. If I get a nickel (quarter now with inflation) every time I hear “they don’t understand anesthesia billing”, I’d be somewhat a rich man.

Private practice historically has this “partnership track” ranging from 1-5 years. Sometimes longer. During those years, historically you make less. Sometimes a lot less. So partners don’t really want you to know, which added to this culture of not being transparent. As you can also see from above posts, people don’t want you to know what your unit values are. Because that’s considered “trade secrets”. What I get from united, atena, BCBS, is none of your business.

Most real “hardcore” academic places, everyone supposedly work for the medical school and/or hospital system with a set salary and defined call burden. (Hardcore is quotes because now a lot of places that I know are starting with these hybrid models of “community” or “physician group” way of running anesthesia programs….)

Then you come to this market, with a whole new generation of anesthesiologists coming out, who have totally different mind set. Not only they never seen true private practice, nor have they seen anything other corporate medicine at a AMC level and hospital system level. Adding gasoline to the fire is the anesthesia market right now. We all want to make 300+/hr without taking any calls. So does everyone that’s coming out of residency.

I am out for five years and like I said in the other thread, had two failed partnership track jobs. Both ended in AMC taking over the hospitals. A lot of people with ties to the community, would rather take that job security and steady paycheck from AMC. While some of the younger anesthesiologists are more welling to pick up and do locums. In that equation, no one is welling to put in the time to rebuilt the practice. Moreover, the admins are taking a cookie cutter approach to anesthesia (or medicine in general), like an assembly line. We can plug anyone into the position, as long as the price is right…..

Don’t get me wrong, I am making a decent living. I suppose this is what physician mental and emotional burnout feels like.

Saw this on Reddit yesterday. Good for a few laughs. https://www.tiktok.com/@wannaft_banana/video/7235593605220420890

 

[vm26]

There’s a lot of mystery in physician pay. We can already see in this thread. We typically don’t like to talk about pay in front of other physicians, certainly not in presence of nurses/patients.

Don’t get me wrong, I am making a decent living. I suppose this is what physician mental and emotional burnout feels like.

Yes physician pay is a mystery. Somewhat arbitrary in many ways. It's impressive that we are able to keep income up given that CMS reimbursement is down about 40-50% from 2000 or so when inflation factored in, through shear volume (hence burnout) but seems like this is coming to a head...Hospital subsidization will likely become a new norm for many sub-specialists...For my field (radiology) the bottom line is reimbursement/wRVU (took me about 10 years as an attending to figure this out).