Just a question

[proratalg]

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So in one of my classes someone referred to terminating pregancies and this being the same as abortions (which they are) but that vets shouldn't be playing god. Obviously this is a person who is one of the religious extremists in this country (similiar to the muslim and all other religious extremists). Now isn't playing God also in vitro fertilizations, and breeding, and all those items also? they didn't seem to speak up about these, I guess this is the typically, picking and chosing of the extremists. TOo much Pat Robertson.

 

[JerseyisCutest]

...

 

[david594]

Now isn't playing God also in vitro fertilizations, and breeding, and all those items also? they didn't seem to speak up about these, I guess this is the typically, picking and chosing of the extremists. TOo much Pat Robertson.

Go do some work for a specialty repro vet and you wont think of it as playing God any more. Everything can seem to go right for an AI and yet it still just doesnt work.

Is a lot easier to meet ones goal in terminating a pregnancy than it is when doing AI breedings.

 

[fargeese]

Now I try not to offend on this site, because we have plenty of pre-meds to do that for us, ha ha, but people who think like the person in the OP's class really irk me, and I am going to say why, whether it ticks people off or not...

Where are these people when the unwanted baby or litter of puppies are born? As a teacher for many years, and having worked with a shelter, I've seen children and animals abused and neglected, who have not had a happy day in their lives, and I can't help but wonder where all the pro-life protestors are then. You want to convince someone to not have an abortion or let their dog have 80 puppies, fine! Just be around to help feed and clothe that kid and find homes for 80 puppies.

Sorry to seem so harsh, but I have met many parents who should never have had kids, or not have had them so young, and it is the kids who suffer the most, and it bothers me that people feel so free to tell someone else what they should do with their life, when it is not them that has to deal with the decision.

Can we go back to talking about when we're going to get interviews? 😍

 

[JerseyisCutest]

Sorry to seem so harsh, but I have met many parents who should never have had kids,

LIKE ME! seriously I'd be a terrible parent 😱 that's why I'll just have dogs/horses/cats when I'm older and not children.

 

[VAgirl]

if I somehow magicallly got pregnant

It doesn't actually happen by magic...there are a few other steps involved...😛

 

[JerseyisCutest]

...

 

[Poke]

So in one of my classes someone referred to terminating pregancies and this being the same as abortions (which they are) but that vets shouldn't be playing god. Obviously this is a person who is one of the religious extremists in this country (similiar to the muslim and all other religious extremists). Now isn't playing God also in vitro fertilizations, and breeding, and all those items also? they didn't seem to speak up about these, I guess this is the typically, picking and chosing of the extremists. TOo much Pat Robertson.

Someone merely stating their opinion does not [necessarily] qualify them as an extremist. Assuming such because said opinion differs from yours irks me more than said opinion, no matter what the subject.

 

[ShelterGirl]

I'm with FarGeese on this one.

Is it worse to spay a pregnant animal and end the lives of an unwanted litter early, or to let that unwanted litter be born and die later (either from predators/cars/poisoning/environment or from shelter euthanasia)?

Are the people who think this is so horrible willing to provide a home for the MILLIONS of unwanted animals in this country alone? If so, great!

 

[m&ossyducks]

Now I try not to offend on this site, because we have plenty of pre-meds to do that for us, ha ha, but people who think like the person in the OP's class really irk me, and I am going to say why, whether it ticks people off or not...

Where are these people when the unwanted baby or litter of puppies are born? As a teacher for many years, and having worked with a shelter, I've seen children and animals abused and neglected, who have not had a happy day in their lives, and I can't help but wonder where all the pro-life protestors are then. You want to convince someone to not have an abortion or let their dog have 80 puppies, fine! Just be around to help feed and clothe that kid and find homes for 80 puppies.

Sorry to seem so harsh, but I have met many parents who should never have had kids, or not have had them so young, and it is the kids who suffer the most, and it bothers me that people feel so free to tell someone else what they should do with their life, when it is not them that has to deal with the decision.

Can we go back to talking about when we're going to get interviews? 😍

You should listen to Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, or better yet call in with these comments.

 

[fargeese]

I will, right after I do lunch with Ann Coulter.

 

[dpcdoc]

In my humble opinion, someone who would make the comparison between abortion in humans and a Vet playing God, clearly has no experience with the reality of the pet overpopulation problem and the lives of unwanted animals in shelters and on the street. I think the overwhelming majority of people who follow this site would agree the persons arguement just does not stand up.

 

[nsdhfk]

Someone merely stating their opinion does not [necessarily] qualify them as an extremist. Assuming such because said opinion differs from yours irks me more than said opinion, no matter what the subject.

Well said; mature and wise.

 

[vegternarian]

Obviously this is a person who is one of the religious extremists in this country (similiar to the muslim and all other religious extremists).

Speaking of extremists: BEING MUSLIM DOES NOT MAKE YOU AN EXTREMIST. Islam is a religion of peace. That's like saying all Christians blow up abortion clinics. Let's show a little courtesy to our fellow man, mmm'kay?

 

[Electrophile]

I think they were referring to the Muslim extremists, not Muslims in general, but but yeah, it was worded a bit off.

If we're discussing ethics, what I personally really dislike is when biotech companies spend millions of dollars trying to develop a transgenic animal like the omega 3 fatty acid pig when you can raise the level of omega 3 FAs in food animals by finishing them on grass and not grain, as numerous studies have shown. Just another way to push out the small family farmer trying to raise their stock sustainably and humanely on pasture in favor of production, biotech agribusiness, and the almighty dollar. 😡

 

[vegternarian]

I think they were referring to the Muslim extremists, not Muslims in general, but but yeah, it was worded a bit off.

If we're discussing ethics, what I personally really dislike is when biotech companies spend millions of dollars trying to develop a transgenic animal like the omega 3 fatty acid pig when you can raise the level of omega 3 FAs in food animals by finishing them on grass and not grain, as numerous studies have shown. Just another way to push out the small family farmer trying to raise their stock sustainably and humanely on pasture in favor of production, biotech agribusiness, and the almighty dollar. 😡

Treating animals humanely is just too much lost $$$ for your modern super farmer.

 

[Poke]

Well said; mature and wise.

I have my moments. 🙂

 

[bakaduin]

I think they were referring to the Muslim extremists, not Muslims in general, but but yeah, it was worded a bit off.

If we're discussing ethics, what I personally really dislike is when biotech companies spend millions of dollars trying to develop a transgenic animal like the omega 3 fatty acid pig when you can raise the level of omega 3 FAs in food animals by finishing them on grass and not grain, as numerous studies have shown. Just another way to push out the small family farmer trying to raise their stock sustainably and humanely on pasture in favor of production, biotech agribusiness, and the almighty dollar. 😡

Raising animals on grass is a thing of the past and when this nonsense organic food fad dies I doubt we will see anybody besides some developing countries raise animals in that way. While certainly the almighty dollar as you put it plays a roll in the need to develop such pigs it has way more to do with population. With world populations expected to reach 9 billion by 2050 it just isnt feasible to use the vast amount of land needed to grow animals free range. In the ideal world of course we'd just use crops because they are more efficient with the land used but people are still going to want meat. Its simple logistics, you can feed a lot more people by keeping your pigs on grain in cement pens and altering their genetics than you can by letting them roam free.

 

[laurafinn]

Raising animals on grass is a thing of the past and when this nonsense organic food fad dies I doubt we will see anybody besides some developing countries raise animals in that way....

I have to speak to this. Pasture-based systems are not a thing of the past, and not exclusive to developing countries. Pretty much all of New Zealand's beef, sheep and daiiry production is pasture-based. There are two beef feedlots in the entire country, and one is producing specialist beef for the Japanese market. What studies here have shown is that for New Zealand conditions, an extensive (ie, grass-based) beef system is as profitable as an intensive system - fewer inputs and lower labor requirements offset the lower growth rates. New Zealand exports 80% of its red meat and milk solids, which means the country produces 5 times the animal products it needs for its own population.

Also, I would not confuse pasture-based systems with organic farming, although some farms may have organic pasture-based systems, there are plenty of pasture-based systems that are not organic, and plenty of organic systems (in the US, especially for poultry) that are pretty much factory farms. I don't think organic farming is necessarily good for animal welfare (too much incentive not to treat easily-remedied infections); I do think that well-managed pasture-based systems are.

Since the consumer push towards organics has been increasing over the past 20 years, I don't think it can be considered to be a fad. In the past couple of years, there does seem to be an increasing consumer interest in knowing where their food comes from. Time will tell whether this is a fad or not.

 

[bakaduin]

I have to speak to this. Pasture-based systems are not a thing of the past, and not exclusive to developing countries. Pretty much all of New Zealand's beef, sheep and daiiry production is pasture-based. There are two beef feedlots in the entire country, and one is producing specialist beef for the Japanese market. What studies here have shown is that for New Zealand conditions, an extensive (ie, grass-based) beef system is as profitable as an intensive system - fewer inputs and lower labor requirements offset the lower growth rates. New Zealand exports 80% of its red meat and milk solids, which means the country produces 5 times the animal products it needs for its own population.

Also, I would not confuse pasture-based systems with organic farming, although some farms may have organic pasture-based systems, there are plenty of pasture-based systems that are not organic, and plenty of organic systems (in the US, especially for poultry) that are pretty much factory farms. I don't think organic farming is necessarily good for animal welfare (too much incentive not to treat easily-remedied infections); I do think that well-managed pasture-based systems are.

Since the consumer push towards organics has been increasing over the past 20 years, I don't think it can be considered to be a fad. In the past couple of years, there does seem to be an increasing consumer interest in knowing where their food comes from. Time will tell whether this is a fad or not.

Well there certainly are grassfed cattle throughout the world including Argentina, and Japan and what not. But as population increases, which it certainly will, the prices for land and organic foods will eventually become too high for even the most savy of consumers. Your right that I erred in saying it is a thing of the past but I should of said it will be a thing of the past. When the population reaches 9 billion either we will continue to produce was we do now and a lot of people will die from starvation or we will adapt to produce as much as we can to feed as many consumers as possible. Your right though time will tell.

 

[Electrophile]

I'm telling you guys...over winter break or Thanksgiving break or whatever...read Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma. It's very well written and in it, one farm on 450 acres produces this much in one season (p. 222 hardback) all on grass:

-30,000 dozen eggs
-10,000 broilers
-800 stewing hens
-25,000 lbs of beef
-25,000 lbs of pork
-1,000 turkeys
-500 rabbits

All sustainable agriculture. All organic. All humanely raised and humanely slaughtered. All benefiting local communities. It can be done. Smart rotational grazing is where it's at. And if you all knew what I do about environmental toxicology and endocrine disruption, you'd be eating organic too. Plus if you buy local organic stuff at the farmers market, it's often even cheaper than Wal-Mart. And MUCH tastier! 👍 (I just thought about the grass fed lamb chops I have defrosting in my fridge and my mouth just watered)

 

[bakaduin]

I'm telling you guys...over winter break or Thanksgiving break or whatever...read Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma. It's very well written and in it, one farm on 450 acres produces this much in one season (p. 222 hardback) all on grass:

-30,000 dozen eggs
-10,000 broilers
-800 stewing hens
-25,000 lbs of beef
-25,000 lbs of pork
-1,000 turkeys
-500 rabbits

All sustainable agriculture. All organic. All humanely raised and humanely slaughtered. All benefiting local communities. It can be done. Smart rotational grazing is where it's at. And if you all knew what I do about environmental toxicology and endocrine disruption, you'd be eating organic too. Plus if you buy local organic stuff at the farmers market, it's often even cheaper than Wal-Mart. And MUCH tastier! 👍 (I just thought about the grass fed lamb chops I have defrosting in my fridge and my mouth just watered)

Sounds like an interesting book Ill have to read it! Thanks for the reference

 

[Truth74]

Plus if you buy local organic stuff at the farmers market, it's often even cheaper than Wal-Mart. And MUCH tastier! 👍

Ya know, Wal-Mart has its own organic stuff, now. They even have smaller stores with more organics. I found my hummus in a little town in TN.

But then again, I'm biased.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

So being pro-life makes you a religious extremist? Wow. Guess I better go blow something up now, I'm behind in the news.🙄 Lord. Everyone has opinions. Just because it doesn't agree with yours doesn't legitimize name-calling and assumptions.

Now, before you get all huffery-snuffery and go off on how I am misinterpreting...🙂 I know what you were saying, that this person was a bit out there because they seemed to say that vet's shouldn't abort litters.

But please watch how you phrase things. Just to be respectful/professional. Hmmmkay kids? Group hug!

 

[ri23]

We need to get you back in classes WhtsThFrequency if you're so bored you're digging up old threads 😉

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Holy guacamole!

That is what I get for being bored and using a using a search function for random therio info. Thankfully my clinpath job will start in earnest tomorrow so I won't be around as much to buzz about in everyone's ears....er...on their screens? Hmm...

 

[philomycus]

........Just because it doesn't agree with yours doesn't legitimize name-calling and assumptions.

But please watch how you phrase things. Just to be respectful/professional. Hmmmkay kids? Group hug!

Wow. You basically just called someone stupid in another thread on large animals. How about you just be consistent?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Wow. You basically just called someone stupid in another thread on large animals. How about you just be consistent?

Hmmm I assume you are referring to the cow-in-the-catch thread? I said the idea of being inside a squeze with a cow seemed stupid and dangerous to me....I didn't personally attack the OP and name-call.

I did not say "You are an idiot"

And I quote "It just seems...well...stupid and dangerous." To which the OP replied that such a procedure was commonly done with show cattle. So...I said my opinion, she countered with her experience. I don't see a personal attack in that? If you wanted to point out name-calling, there was another poster on that thread who, I must say, was quite, er, direct in his/her opinion about the OP.

If your goal is to try and reduce "personal attacks" I would change the tone of your own posts, which leaves as much to be desired in the realm of diplomacy as "seethemfirst"s does.