jesse14

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I know a lot of people on these forums don't like chiropractic for various reasons and i accept peoples views. I am going to be a DC so i thought i'd share my 2 cents on something that occured to me tonight as i was in my dads office studying (he's a DC as well).

On my study break i started snooping through all of my dads OLD notes from over 25 years ago when he was in chiro school. I saw binders upon binders of notes from anatomy to athletic therapy to phsyiology. Now, i have never been to MD school nor DC school so i could never compare the two professions education. i KNOW MD educations is tough and i respect the hell out of them but i also feel DC education is more rigorous than many people make it out to be. But i digress.... I was looking at my dad's notes from his forth year of DC school and then i saw another binder filled with information on how to start a practice and survive all by yourself as a chiropractor. It occured to me that unlike most other health care professions, the day you graduate from a chiro college you better have your $hit in order or you're in big trouble. So, if studying for your board exams isn't enough stress, future DC's also have to worry about how they'll survive once they pass those exams. That to me seems like a TON of stress. Just imagion: You just had your DC graduation and you're so excited to be a chiropractor and then you go to bed that night and wake up the next morning with NO resedency or interniship to help you along your way. YOu're ALONE with only yourself to depend on for your survival. Basically, a DC has a huge debt load while trying to figur out how to run a business, get patients, and be an ethical doctor (the kind i plan to be).
I think a lot of people should give chiros a break. It's no wonder they have higher than average student loan defalt rates. ... they have to pass chiro college, learn how to run a business, and get a patient base all alone. That can't be easy. I'm not even sure why i'm writing this lol but i felt the need to. I guess im just venting on the stress i'm going to endure in the coming years. But i'm ready for it .......... i think :scared:
 

StevenRF

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I didn't know people hated on chiros...but I dont think that starting off as a doc is going to be much easier.

Anyway, your post sounds like the ones from people who have parents that are police officers and genuinely think they arn't corrupt.
 

Daemos

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If you are going to start preaching subluxsations are the cause of disease and everything. Then I won't have any respect for you.

Chiropractic is a dying profession, based on pseudo-science. Sure it's great for things like back pain, and muscular skeletal issues, but REAL research has shown that it's no more effective than seeing a real physiotherapist. As well the fact that LONG TERM chiropractic use is BAD for you because your body will start to depend on it.

I suggest you check out chirotalk: http://chirotalk.proboards3.com/index.cgi before going to Chiro collage. There are some ex-DCs, some practocing DCs, alot of PROPER research into chiropractic techniques (not only by the evil 'medical empire' (as my friend who is intrested in being a DC calls it) but other DCs (but she's been so brainwashed by 'subluxsations are the cause of all evil' that she won't believe real evidence) and DC --> MD students. DCs basically don't get alot of credit on that forum, because beyond anything muscular and skeletal, they cannot properly diagnosis disease or sickness, or treat it properly even (although they claim to by curing subluxsations). They are no more than fancy physiotherapists.

I for one am an addvocate against chiropractic. Because even if you are one who doesn't believe in the 'subluxsation causes all evil' it's what is defined and licensed by, and that's the founding principle of chiropractic by Plamer and co.

I see that you are in TO, am I to assume you will be attending CMCC? IF so, the Canadian Chiropractic Association is HEAVILY science based (although the majority of Canadian chiropractors are 'quazi-science' subluxsation based) CMCC to my knowledge does not teach subluxsation based practices (although in my area I have a few CMCC graduages who preach it) I would just read that chirotalk forum and learn what you can before making a decision.

Alot of the pay issues that affect american chiros don't really affect canadian chiropractors, as canadian chiropractors easily make more than what most canadian MDs would make, for alot less work.
 
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jesse14

jesse14

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Daemos said:
If you are going to start preaching subluxsations are the cause of disease and everything. Then I won't have any respect for you.

Chiropractic is a dying profession, based on pseudo-science. Sure it's great for things like back pain, and muscular skeletal issues, but REAL research has shown that it's no more effective than seeing a real physiotherapist. As well the fact that LONG TERM chiropractic use is BAD for you because your body will start to depend on it.

I suggest you check out chirotalk: http://chirotalk.proboards3.com/index.cgi before going to Chiro collage. There are some ex-DCs, some practocing DCs, alot of PROPER research into chiropractic techniques (not only by the evil 'medical empire' (as my friend who is intrested in being a DC calls it) but other DCs (but she's been so brainwashed by 'subluxsations are the cause of all evil' that she won't believe real evidence) and DC --> MD students. DCs basically don't get alot of credit on that forum, because beyond anything muscular and skeletal, they cannot properly diagnosis disease or sickness, or treat it properly even (although they claim to by curing subluxsations). They are no more than fancy physiotherapists.

I for one am an addvocate against chiropractic. Because even if you are one who doesn't believe in the 'subluxsation causes all evil' it's what is defined and licensed by, and that's the founding principle of chiropractic by Plamer and co.

I see that you are in TO, am I to assume you will be attending CMCC? IF so, the Canadian Chiropractic Association is HEAVILY science based (although the majority of Canadian chiropractors are 'quazi-science' subluxsation based) CMCC to my knowledge does not teach subluxsation based practices (although in my area I have a few CMCC graduages who preach it) I would just read that chirotalk forum and learn what you can before making a decision.

Alot of the pay issues that affect american chiros don't really affect canadian chiropractors, as canadian chiropractors easily make more than what most canadian MDs would make, for alot less work.
Hey Daemos,
First off, thank's for the reply but i do have a few coments for you. I do not believe in the subluxation concept, as it is yet to be discovered to be a real entity. However, the chiropractic adjustment does wonders when trying to increase ROM, decrese paraspinal muscle tension, and spasms. Also, after suffering from daily headaches for years, adjustmenst were the only thing that worked to stop them from reoccuring. That to me was amazing in that i AM i believer in the idea that NSAIDS only cover up the actual problem. DC's not only adjust. In fact i know one who does very rairley. Chrio's can make orthotics, use TENS therapy, ultrasound, x- ray (only when needed---too many x-rays=no good), and exercise and nutrition advice.
Lastly, in MY expereince, a PT couldn't do what my DC did for me after i had my car accident and really messed up my lower back. That's not to say PT's are useless, but i feel they are a bit more limited in what they can do than DC's.

I am well versed in the chirotalk board.. doesn't deter me in the least. In my opinion, most of the people on that board are disgrunteled DC's who couldn't make it in practice and decided to blaim it for their failings. However, i do understand that there are quack DC's who feel they can cure everything under the sun, and that poses a danger to the patient who don't know any better. That's NOT the way i want to practice. I just want to me a MSK specalist. I am going to the CMCC which does not subscribe to the subluxation as the cause of disease. They are also active in chiro research with Phd's so the research can be done right. I feel after going through the 4 year program i will be a very capable doctor of chiropractic (not medicine).

I however must disagree with your last point when you said canadain DC's can easily make more than Canadain MD's. Since only 10-15% of the population see's DC's and 100% see's MD's, chiro's have to work very hard just to stay afloat. But i would really be interested in seeing your rational begind why you feel canadain DC's can do so well...for interest purposes of course.

K, i need some lunch..
Bye
 

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jesse14 said:
Since only 10-15% of the population see's DC's and 100% see's MD's, chiro's have to work very hard just to stay afloat.
This makes sense only if you assume that the populations of practicing DCs and MDs are equal. My guess is that MDs>>DCs.
 

8744

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jesse14 said:
...So, if studying for your board exams isn't enough stress, future DC's also have to worry about how they'll survive once they pass those exams. That to me seems like a TON of stress. Just imagion: You just had your DC graduation and you're so excited to be a chiropractor and then you go to bed that night and wake up the next morning with NO resedency or interniship to help you along your way. YOu're ALONE with only yourself to depend on for your survival. Basically, a DC has a huge debt load while trying to figur out how to run a business, get patients, and be an ethical doctor...
Well, that's encouraging. If it's possible I just developed even less respect for chiropractors. Even you admit that a big part of your future plans involves figuring out how to be an ethical doctor, implying that this is not the norm in that profession.

An MD or DO, by contrast, has no such trouble. There are unethical MDs and DO but you really have to exert yourself to be that way. The default is to be ethical whereas in chiropractic it is not.

No residency? No internship? Fantastic. I imagine the public would be very poorly served if MDs and DOs were released into the world after medical school with no further training.

Do yourself a favor, try real medicine instead. Maybe orthopaedic surgery or sports medicine is your thing.

P. Bear, MD
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8744

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StevenRF said:
I didn't know people hated on chiros...but I dont think that starting off as a doc is going to be much easier.

Anyway, your post sounds like the ones from people who have parents that are police officers and genuinely think they arn't corrupt.

Who hates them? Caveat Emptor. If there is market of people who believe in that sort of thing than I say go for it.
 

8744

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Chiropractors: The used car salesmen of the medical profession.
 

McDoctor

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Panda Bear said:
Chiropractors: The used car salesmen of the medical profession.
What's with all the hate towards used car salesmen?
 

Daemos

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jesse14 said:
I however must disagree with your last point when you said canadain DC's can easily make more than Canadain MD's. Since only 10-15% of the population see's DC's and 100% see's MD's, chiro's have to work very hard just to stay afloat. But i would really be interested in seeing your rational begind why you feel canadain DC's can do so well...for interest purposes of course.

K, i need some lunch..
Bye
Medical doctors are regulated by medicare, so their salaries are regulated by medicare.

I'll use GPs as the most common example (as they are 'primary care' just like DCs are supposed to be) Highest paid GPs reside I believe in British columbia. A GP who runs a clinic all day, 6 days a week, will gross ~$300-330K a year (working say 52 weeks of a year). Then clinic costs are about 1/3rd and then taxes. YES that is STILL ALOT of money. Hell I'd be more than happy if I earned half of that. GPs in my city don't even make half of that a year.

Chiropractors, get $35 bucks per paitent, each paitent takes what? a max of 5 min to see? Maybe even less. so 60/5 = 12 paitents in an hour. say you work 7 hours a day. $35x7hoursx12 = $2940 a day say you work 5 days a week. x 5 = $14700 per week x 52 weeks in a year...$764400. Clinic costs are FAR cheaper to operate than a MD clinic.

Now I'm not saying you will get that right away, it takes time, and ALOT of selling. But, chiropractors are VERY popular in Canada believe it or not, I am a part time worker at a lowly dead end job, I get medical coverage which covers chiropractic 80%. I know for a fact, alot of other places have similar coverage, and people DO see chiropractors for lower back pain. And when so many people have insurance, as long as they don't have to pay for it, they will keep on using it.

So if you arn't ethical, you just keep telling them to come back once every week, once every two weeks, people won't mind, they will feel great because their back no longer hurts, it only takes 5 min of their time, and they will tell others.

Most chiropractic offices in my area are quite busy, one you have to book a minimum of a week in advance.

The money making potential of Chiropractic is higher than most MDs and that' with less time in school, and far less work, and alot less stress in practice.

I was once very intrested in chiropractic, I was lost, didn't know what I wanted to do in school, did very poorly for 3 years of university, I fell into the chiropractic subluxsation is the cause of everything dogma, I fell PREY to it. Then I learned the truth, couldn't deal with being a chiropractor, some chiropractors tried to get me to change my mind because of the amazing money potential. I couldn't deal with having to battle my self every day.

That was a year ago...I just finished my 4th year of university, studying hard, writing the mcat this summer (which I've run into alot of problems with various things, I've neglected to study it) but I hope, to apply to medical school in a few years, because I found the path that was right for me.
 

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jesse14 said:
. Just imagion: You just had your DC graduation and you're so excited to be a chiropractor and then you go to bed that night and wake up the next morning with NO resedency or interniship to help you along your way. YOu're ALONE with only yourself to depend on for your survival. Basically, a DC has a huge debt load while trying to figur out how to run a business, get patients, and be an ethical doctor (the kind i plan to be).
I think a lot of people should give chiros a break. It's no wonder they have higher than average student loan defalt rates. ... they have to pass chiro college, learn how to run a business, and get a patient base all alone. That can't be easy. I'm not even sure why i'm writing this lol but i felt the need to. I guess im just venting on the stress i'm going to endure in the coming years. But i'm ready for it .......... i think :scared:

Just be like every other chiropractor and tell every patient, regardless of their problem, that they need to come in 3x/week for 18 months. Then charge them $50 for 10 minutes of back cracking. What's there to worry about?
 

USCguy

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Chiropractors, get $35 bucks per paitent, each paitent takes what? a max of 5 min to see? Maybe even less. so 60/5 = 12 paitents in an hour. say you work 7 hours a day. $35x7hoursx12 = $2940 a day say you work 5 days a week. x 5 = $14700 per week x 52 weeks in a year...$764400. Clinic costs are FAR cheaper to operate than a MD clinic.
Have you ever heard of a chiro that saw 12 pts/hour for 7 straight hours, every work day, that didn't take vacation? just wondering, because I've never heard of this



I was once very intrested in chiropractic, I was lost, didn't know what I wanted to do in school, did very poorly for 3 years of university, I fell into the chiropractic subluxsation is the cause of everything dogma, I fell PREY to it. Then I learned the truth, couldn't deal with being a chiropractor, some chiropractors tried to get me to change my mind because of the amazing money potential. I couldn't deal with having to battle my self every day.

That was a year ago...I just finished my 4th year of university, studying hard, writing the mcat this summer (which I've run into alot of problems with various things, I've neglected to study it) but I hope, to apply to medical school in a few years, because I found the path that was right for me.
I'm in a similar boat
 

randomedstudent

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I know a lot of people on these forums don't like chiropractic for various reasons and i accept peoples views. I am going to be a DC so i thought i'd share my 2 cents on something that occured to me tonight as i was in my dads office studying (he's a DC as well).

On my study break i started snooping through all of my dads OLD notes from over 25 years ago when he was in chiro school. I saw binders upon binders of notes from anatomy to athletic therapy to phsyiology. Now, i have never been to MD school nor DC school so i could never compare the two professions education. i KNOW MD educations is tough and i respect the hell out of them but i also feel DC education is more rigorous than many people make it out to be. But i digress.... I was looking at my dad's notes from his forth year of DC school and then i saw another binder filled with information on how to start a practice and survive all by yourself as a chiropractor. It occured to me that unlike most other health care professions, the day you graduate from a chiro college you better have your $hit in order or you're in big trouble. So, if studying for your board exams isn't enough stress, future DC's also have to worry about how they'll survive once they pass those exams. That to me seems like a TON of stress. Just imagion: You just had your DC graduation and you're so excited to be a chiropractor and then you go to bed that night and wake up the next morning with NO resedency or interniship to help you along your way. YOu're ALONE with only yourself to depend on for your survival. Basically, a DC has a huge debt load while trying to figur out how to run a business, get patients, and be an ethical doctor (the kind i plan to be).
I think a lot of people should give chiros a break. It's no wonder they have higher than average student loan defalt rates. ... they have to pass chiro college, learn how to run a business, and get a patient base all alone. That can't be easy. I'm not even sure why i'm writing this lol but i felt the need to. I guess im just venting on the stress i'm going to endure in the coming years. But i'm ready for it .......... i think :scared:
Just so you don't think we have it too easy, when pysicians finish residency we are essentially in the exact position you are describing. I mean do you think that we just automatically have jobs when we are done? No, it takes work, you network during residency, you call around, you research on the internet, whatever. You could do the same thing during school. So no sympathy from me on that one.
 

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It occured to me that unlike most other health care professions, the day you graduate from a chiro college you better have your $hit in order or you're in big trouble.
well, only if you don't count dentists, optometrists, podiatrists, and nurses.

this is just a guess, but i doubt the OP can relate to what it feels like to be brand new MD on your first call night during internship. they roll this guy into the ICU on a ventilator - a transfer with a massive GI bleed now in ARDS. talk about stress - i was scared sh*tless. i would have gladly taken a crooked spine at that point.
 
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