Just give me a checklist

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

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So, I was listening to two people have this argument (while waiting in line at subway on campus).... and I kept my mouth shut.

But here it is: (from my memory........)
S1: Everything is so confusing I don't know what to do or take
S2: Just get all A's and you'll be okay
S1: I just wish I knew more
S2: Getting A's takes care of it all, you're smart
S1: other stuff
S2: blah blah
-- (eventually I catch on S1 is premed and a freshman)
S1: "I just wish there was list" Not a handout


------So why isn't there a list?

It's not that hard, level everything out. Then divided it out from there....... (At least for the 18 year olds this beats googling everything) It's important to keep in mind these students just want some structure early on. After that 1st year maybe talk to them some more...... It beats just telling them to do what they love and take what they want and hope for the best (which doesn't work for anything in the real world)

 

[Womb Raider]

What is this thread about?

 

[Ismet]

Go to any med school's website and there is a list of requirements.

If you can't do the minimal work needed to research the steps you need to take for your career, perhaps it would be best to choose a different career. That's why the hundreds of freshmen who say they're pre-med dwindle down to a few dozen when it comes time for application.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Go to any med school's website and there is a list of requirements.

If you can't do the minimal work needed to research the steps you need to take for your career, perhaps it would be best to choose a different career. That's why the hundreds of freshmen who say they're pre-med dwindle down to a few dozen when it comes time for application.

I just finished up a entry level course I had to take as a transfer to this school that was full of freshman. 1/3-1/2 were pre-med.

No one regardless of what they wanted to do really understood the steps they had waiting for them. This "discovery" course taught by a advisor was a joke and basically told everyone to do what they love.
The pre-meds were told they probably won't get in and anyone short of a 3.7 shouldn't apply. The closest he got to giving advise was telling people to be happy and do what they love.

Come on these people are kids they deserve some real advice.


(You have a real point though)

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

What is this thread about?

Mostly how freshman deserve some structured guidance, advising upon entry to a university.

 

[Ismet]

I just finished up a entry level course I had to take as a transfer to this school that was full of freshman. 1/3-1/2 were pre-med.

No one regardless of what they wanted to do really understood the steps they had waiting for them. This "discovery" course taught by a advisor was a joke and basically told everyone to do what they love.
The pre-meds were told they probably won't get in and anyone short of a 3.7 shouldn't apply. The closest he got to giving advise was telling people to be happy and do what they love.

Come on these people are kids they deserve some real advice.

Then they can go on the internet (Google, school websites, SDN, and yes even reddit pre-med) and get good advice, or talk to upperclassmen who are going through it. I didn't find SDN until a couple weeks before I took the MCAT, which was a couple weeks before my application cycle opened. No one in my family is in medicine, and the pre-health advisor at the time was known for discouraging people from applying if they had a 3.6 or lower. I googled, I talked to upperclassmen in my pre-med organization, I bought the MSAR, I researched schools, and if I had found SDN earlier I would have been even more prepared.

If you feel strongly that the kids at your school are lacking in the pre-health advising department, then take it into your own hands. Is there a pre-health club on campus? Maybe start one. Direct people to good resources. Maybe instead of listening to their conversation and posting it on SDN, you could have told them about this website and what a great resource it is.

 

[Ismet]

Also if you google "pre-med checklist," the first hit is a very detailed checklist. https://www.galenpress.com/extras/extra23.htm

 

[Womb Raider]

Mostly how freshman deserve some structured guidance, advising upon entry to a university.

My undergrad university had the mandatory advisement appointments the first 1-2 years (I forget exactly). Are most schools not like this?

In Texas, the application website has a link with very detailed course requirements. (https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/education_Requirements.html) Not sure you're going to find a better "checklist." I'm sure AMCAS has a similar one.

There are TONS of resources out there, and I'm sure every college has ways of helping students. The resources are there, but it's up to YOU as a student to take advantage of them. This is the big difference between high school and college - you have to start taking matters into your own hands, people can't baby you forever.

 

[Promethean]

The best advice that could be given to these kids is that if they want something in life, they are going to have to go out and kill it themselves.

The reason they are so crippled is because they have had everything handed to them via checklists up to this point. They are just kids because they've never had to be adults before. For some, the learning curve is really steep, but it isn't as if every resource isn't there for the ones with the sense to go looking.

I can't tell you how many times SDN came up on Google searches for all things related to medical school before I finally dropped in and realized that everything I needed was here. And I don't even need to start new threads to get my questions answered. There are years of archives, if one simply has the patience to go read through them.

The cry for a checklist is understandable. It would be nice to have everything you need to do outlined for you, neatly. And to have some guarantee that the rules wouldn't change on you half way through. Since life doesn't really work that way, it is better to be adaptable and resourceful enough to roll with the inevitable surprises when they come up.

 

[ZedsDed]

Lol no. No one is going to hand you medical school on a plate, get used to it

 

[tiedyeddog]

I just finished up a entry level course I had to take as a transfer to this school that was full of freshman. 1/3-1/2 were pre-med.

No one regardless of what they wanted to do really understood the steps they had waiting for them. This "discovery" course taught by a advisor was a joke and basically told everyone to do what they love.
The pre-meds were told they probably won't get in and anyone short of a 3.7 shouldn't apply. The closest he got to giving advise was telling people to be happy and do what they love.

Come on these people are kids they deserve some real advice.


(You have a real point though)

Here is some advice:
1. Google it
2. Get on SDN, do a search
3. Join the premed club if 1 and 2 are still confusing.

No one, at any stage of your training, is going to hand feed you anything. College is the time where kids becoming fully functioning adults.

 

[DokterMom]

I just finished up a entry level course I had to take as a transfer to this school that was full of freshman. 1/3-1/2 were pre-med.

No one regardless of what they wanted to do really understood the steps they had waiting for them. This "discovery" course taught by a advisor was a joke and basically told everyone to do what they love.
The pre-meds were told they probably won't get in and anyone short of a 3.7 shouldn't apply. The closest he got to giving advise was telling people to be happy and do what they love.

Come on these people are kids they deserve some real advice.


(You have a real point though)

Be happy and do what you love is not the worst pre-med advice --

• What to major in? Something you love. Something where you will be involved in your classes, drawn to related activities, engage with your professors, and succeed.
• What kinds of outside activities? Something you love, where you will happily spend hours doing something that is personally meaningful and where you have the chance to make the world a better place.
• What classes to take? Lists of pre-reqs already exist and aren't hard to find at all. Beyond those, choose classes that sound fascinating -- so something you love.

Checklists encourage 'checkbox applicants' -- not the world's most compelling.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

My undergrad university had the mandatory advisement appointments the first 1-2 years (I forget exactly). Are most schools not like this?

In Texas, the application website has a link with very detailed course requirements. (https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/education_Requirements.html) Not sure you're going to find a better "checklist." I'm sure AMCAS has a similar one.

There are TONS of resources out there, and I'm sure every college has ways of helping students. The resources are there, but it's up to YOU as a student to take advantage of them. This is the big difference between high school and college - you have to start taking matters into your own hands, people can't baby you forever.

My university is like this, but my adviser has also told me if I take less than 18 credits per semester medical schools might reject me. Mandatory advisement is a waste of time if the advisers are stupid. SDN has done more for me than my adviser ever has/will.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Every single person here has a fair point. Yet, can we at least agree that if someone pays to go to school and tells the school they are pre-med, that school has an obligation to at least see to it they're aware of what they're embarking on?

Honestly it reminds me of tech school. I was a young guy moving around the country when I figured I'd go do something at school. The various programs told me I'd be a detective and help solve medical mysteries, 80% of the choices a doctor makes is because of results "I" put out, I'd be on the frontlines (from a safe distance) and saving lives!, etc. You get the point, I didn't know what I really wanted to do and this sales pitch sounded awesome!

Reality: Technicalities for all of it. I've seen people die and I've "helped" save lives by giving blood (but so did the donor! please donate if you can😉)
So am I happy with being a tech, sure. But I don't feel like a detective. The stuff I was taught in tech school has little relevance to what I actually do, in fact I would wager someone could be trained off the street to work in the lab (It would take months of training and they may not be "all there" but you get the point)

-Now as for these students, they're children. Are they pampered? Sure, but wouldn't you pamper your child? They don't deserve to have years of their life wasted to make the less financially fortunate feel better.

An honest conversation doesn't take much, even if you believe someone doesn't deserve it.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Be happy and do what you love is not the worst pre-med advice --

• What to major in? Something you love. Something where you will be involved in your classes, drawn to related activities, engage with your professors, and succeed.
• What kinds of outside activities? Something you love, where you will happily spend hours doing something that is personally meaningful and where you have the chance to make the world a better place.
• What classes to take? Lists of pre-reqs already exist and aren't hard to find at all. Beyond those, choose classes that sound fascinating -- so something you love.

Checklists encourage 'checkbox applicants' -- not the world's most compelling.

You make a good point. But you realize what advisors tell students is mostly superficial and not exactly meant in this manner. If this was told to students, it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[Glandzburg]

I was looking for similar guidance as a freshman, and came across this great website. I suppose I'm willing to share my secret with all of you:

www.forums.studentdoctor.net 😉

In all seriousness though, >90% of college students carry around all of world's knowledge in their pocket. Sure it would be nice if advisors knew everything, and many of them are well-intentioned. But ultimately it's nobody's fault but your own if you don't take the initiative to do some serious research about what it really takes to enter such an intense path of study.

 

[musliminmed]

Honestly, SDN has been a treasure trove of knowledge for me. I think I know more about medical school admissions, the process, and the rigor far better than my pre-med advisors. (On another note, why do they make non-medical people advisors? They only know very basic knowledge that can be quickly googled, and don't really offer any REAL advice).

TBH, those type of students are hilarious, and it makes it a bit easier for me to pull ahead of them 😛 (KIDDING!)