Just some advice on ECs...

[goldstar97]

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I'm a 35 year old pre-med student who is planning to apply to med school in three years. I work a 40 hour per week career on top of attending the university full-time. How important are volunteering, shadowing, student-clubs, etc.? Just wondering...

 

[music2doc]

I'm a 35 year old pre-med student who is planning to apply to med school in three years. I work a 40 hour per week career on top of attending the university full-time. How important are volunteering, shadowing, student-clubs, etc.? Just wondering...

From what I've heard, essential. How else are you going to "know" you want to be a physician? You're still being evaluated against every traditional applicant. At least as a 35 y/o you probably have a stable job and thus hopefully won't need much beyond the scheduled hours to maintain things there. I started a job at one point that put me over 50 hours of work/wk (as a tech at the hospital) plus ECs and full-time science classes (4 lectures + 2 labs + teaching duties) and it about crushed me. You'll find ways to manage the load, though. Sometimes you simply have to stagger things -- do research in the summer and focus on school for fall/spring for instance. You can do it.

 

[goldstar97]

Thank you for thr quick reply. I understand the important of ECs. At the moment I am applying to be a volunteer at a nearby hospital and will start shadowing soon. As far as student clubs, I am currently in two clubs but it is hard to maintain involvement due to my long work hours and educational responsibilities.

 

[NightGod]

Research is the only one that's mostly optional (unless you plan to get a PhD/MD degree, of course). I've heard of a couple of schools that require it, but it's a very small percentage, which I found helpful since it's the hardest EC to fit into a full-time work/school schedule, at least for me. That and the fact that research bores me to tears 😉

 

[music2doc]

Thank you for thr quick reply. I understand the important of ECs. At the moment I am applying to be a volunteer at a nearby hospital and will start shadowing soon. As far as student clubs, I am currently in two clubs but it is hard to maintain involvement due to my long work hours and educational responsibilities.

I'd drop the clubs before research. Unless you do something absolutely extraordinary as president, your club involvement is going to be about as valuable as that meeting at work that you skipped last week and as a professional already, I don't think you need to prove your leadership potential. The research requirement is to demonstrate things like a love of learning ("intellectual curiosity") and ability to read, interpret, analyze, and perform research. The school that we work with closely is extremely non-trad-friendly and definitely requires research of its applicants, although it looks like about 15 people get in each year without any research experience (while ~12 get in w/o clinical volunteering and some 45 get in without non-clinical volunteering).

 

[Nasrudin]

goldStar,

you've gotten some good responses. So I just add my 2 pesos.

I have posted more frustrately than you about this topic at your point in the process.

Here's what they won't tell you. Med school admissions is measured by this yard stick--you're 22, you're biggest respoinsibility is a post-exam video-game session with your bro's while you're mom cooks you dinner, you barely know what it takes to maintain a girlfriend, let alone a wife, a full-time job, your bills, and god forbid some kids. So of course you have time to volunteer your time for free in a lab, of course you have time to be president of some organization to proove your entusiasm organization. Of course you have time to volunteer doing something inane. Of course you have time to shadow a physician who will be your age.

So what's wrong with you if you don't....NEXT application.

Now, some adcoms will take it upon themselves to dig deeper. Some may be even a member of some cadre of individuals who have mandated themselves with that task. But they will be an exception to a rule that perhaps is only as cruel as the game itself. 10 of thousands, next.....next.....etc.

In fact the more prestigious outfits will only take the most pristine out of our allotment of spots. The age-diverse crowd. They'll give us a dozen or less spots to round out a class. And if they're a fancy-pants enough of a place, to get those spots you not only have already ascended the ranks of the upper middle class but you will have done it with a panache that hallmarks the finesse of all ladder climbing endeavors. You will be disntinguished in other words. And all of the trappings of our pubescent colleagues will have been afforded you by your financial station.

Research will be sought after heavily by state u's and prestige ****** alike. Actually they're all prestige ******. Some are just high dollar ones.

Premed clubs are absolutely a waste of time for a grown person. Drop these like a nice dump. Smoke a cigaratte for while doing so for extra satisfaction.

 

[drdan83]

Premed clubs are absolutely a waste of time for a grown person.

Is this true? I thought that, even if you are older, you still had to be a part of the universities pre-med club?

 

[Nasrudin]

Is this true? I thought that, even if you are older, you still had to be a part of the universities pre-med club?

Let's just think about it. What could it possibly mean to anyone. That you''re interested in medicine. Sure. Ok. Maybe if you're 19. That might mean you could get access to some channels of experential access. Or be involved in creating and managing such affairs. But this is highly peripheral in nature. Even if you aren't a dissident of nonsense such as myself.

So do it if you have time and it get's you acess to shadowing or volunteering. Or anything else marginally useful. But understand it cannot possibly mean anything to anyone who hasn't spent the last 20 years pearched in an ivory tower.

 

[hawkbit]

To the OP, you should be fine dropping the clubs. Do you have any clinical experience (direct patient contact)? If you do (from work, ect) focus your volunteering on something meaningful to you that you will be able to talk about during interviews. If you don't have clinical experience, try to find a volunteer position like transporting, aide, ect that will let you experience the patient in all their glory; it will be important to show you've had some direct patient contact. Remember that you should be able to talk about your job in the EC section as well (in the med school app)... The shadowing is so you can get a good idea of what the doctor's role is towards the patient... and to see if you would really be interested in medicine. Like others have said, research is important for some schools, and for others more like icing on the cake (read: not needed).

Remember GPA and MCAT to get in the door, ECs to rock the interview!

To Nasrudin: You're one of my hero SDNers... I laugh more when you're in the conversation.

 

[music2doc]

Let's just think about it. What could it possibly mean to anyone. That you''re interested in medicine. Sure. Ok. Maybe if you're 19. That might mean you could get access to some channels of experential access. Or be involved in creating and managing such affairs. But this is highly peripheral in nature. Even if you aren't a dissident of nonsense such as myself.

So do it if you have time and it get's you acess to shadowing or volunteering. Or anything else marginally useful. But understand it cannot possibly mean anything to anyone who hasn't spent the last 20 years pearched in an ivory tower.

I agree, but I would make note that sometimes taking leadership of a pre-med organization at a well-connected school can give you great connections. I know that even as a non-trad I've been able to leverage my position to make admissions contacts that I suspect will help me as I apply this year. Of course, the reverse is true -- my connections as a "semi-non-trad" (only spend a yr between graduating and going back for my post-bacc classes, so I don't really consider myself a full "non-trad") greatly benefit our pre-health/pre-med program. My status as a slightly older student also gives my word a bit more weight it seems. I'd guess you might have similar experiences, but don't waste your time on "clubs." What I have been leading is more of a student department that handles pre-med/pre-health programs for the University under the guidance of our pre-med/pre-health committee. Just some "pre-med club" would be useless. You want the
"student government" of pre-med at your school to make your time worth it.

 

[Nasrudin]

I'm with you. Connections are priceless. Pursuing them is a key to success in anything involving this crafty group of monkeys we call humans. If these are obtainable from a premed club or a knitting group. Learn how to knit.

I agree, but I would make note that sometimes taking leadership of a pre-med organization at a well-connected school can give you great connections. I know that even as a non-trad I've been able to leverage my position to make admissions contacts that I suspect will help me as I apply this year. Of course, the reverse is true -- my connections as a "semi-non-trad" (only spend a yr between graduating and going back for my post-bacc classes, so I don't really consider myself a full "non-trad") greatly benefit our pre-health/pre-med program. My status as a slightly older student also gives my word a bit more weight it seems. I'd guess you might have similar experiences, but don't waste your time on "clubs." What I have been leading is more of a student department that handles pre-med/pre-health programs for the University under the guidance of our pre-med/pre-health committee. Just some "pre-med club" would be useless. You want the
"student government" of pre-med at your school to make your time worth it.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

I agree, but I would make note that sometimes taking leadership of a pre-med organization at a well-connected school can give you great connections.

Ah - assuming a leadership position and gaining contacts, that's quite different than just being part of a club.

I took the main point to be that just putting "pre-med club member" on your app by itself is going to do nothing. Think of the advice given out to people who ask, "Should I get my EMT-B certification?" By themselves, those things mean nothing. However, if you were to become president of the club, or become employed for a county 911 system - now you're actually DOING something.

 

[music2doc]

Ah - assuming a leadership position and gaining contacts, that's quite different than just being part of a club.

I took the main point to be that just putting "pre-med club member" on your app by itself is going to do nothing. Think of the advice given out to people who ask, "Should I get my EMT-B certification?" By themselves, those things mean nothing. However, if you were to become president of the club, or become employed for a county 911 system - now you're actually DOING something.

Absolutely. I guess I take for granted that in any position, you must do something to make it worth it. Simply being a part of an organization (any organization) is pretty pointless. That, too, is true of any job or school application. If my resume is simply full of paraphrased statements from my job description it's not going to be a very powerful resume. Instead, I want it to have statements that go above and beyond. The hiring organization expects everyone to fulfill the requirements of the job description -- that's like getting a "C" in a class. What they want to hire are the people for whom the job description is little more than a starting point. They want people who are going to bring something new to the organization while still fulfilling the previous guy's duties. Med schools sort of want the same thing and, of course, making contacts and taking leadership is also a way to utilize positions you have been in (both in work and in school).

 

[CrushMCAT]

To OP: Similarly to you, I'm trying to find the right balance of ECs to make my application competitive. Due to the sheer lack of time, I've currently ignored research. I'd like to do it, but as mentioned earlier it isn't necessarily required (depending on the school, program, etc) so I've put it near the bottom of my list of "things to do".

Now, here's why I haven't completely written off research yet. If you look at the MSAR, the majority of applicants have research experience. Here's a theoretical scenario I'd like to avoid:
- Med School XYZ is reviewing 1000 applicants. They're finalizing their acceptances and have one slot left to fill. They're debating between my application and student John Doe. John Doe and I are similar in the following: GPA, MCAT, volunteering, shadowing, leadership activities, etc. The only difference is that John Doe spent the summer participating in research while I didn't. That makes their decision easy.

I'm not saying this will happen, but it is enough to prevent me from completely writing off research experience unless I'm absolutely unable to accomplish it due to my schedule.

I've also had a Professor (not an Adcom though) tell my class that he's had M.D.s tell him that students with research show that they have a true interest in medicine and solving complex problems. Whereas shadowing a doctor takes little brainpower in comparison to meaningful research activities. I'm not saying this is fact, but just passing along what my Prof stated.

As for the Premed Club, that is your call. I know nontrads in the Premed Club. They actually hold occasion guest-speaker events and so forth that may be beneficial (open to non-members usually). I've chosen not to be an active member because I'm leaning on my other leadership experiences to trump "XYZ of the Premed Club". Also, not everyone can be President of the Premed club. As a thirtysometing, I personally feel awkward about holding a leadership position of club consisting mostly of students in the 18-22 yr range. That and my pride won't allow me to sell tacos from a booth at the campus common area.

 

[goldstar97]

What kind of research can I do? Is that through REU?

 

[TriagePreMed]

I've found that it's truly not that hard to volunteer. 4 hours a week on weekends can get you far over time. If you have 3 years to go, you can add up 625 hours volunteering 4 hours a weak. You could do half that and still be in good shape. Don't get lazy.

 

[NightGod]

I've found that it's truly not that hard to volunteer. 4 hours a week on weekends can get you far over time. If you have 3 years to go, you can add up 625 hours volunteering 4 hours a weak. You could do half that and still be in good shape. Don't get lazy.

For that matter, with three years to go, you can do 4 hours a MONTH and still be fine. Not having enough volunteer time in your ECs when you know about it early on is just silly. The ones I feel bad for are the uninformed who don't find out about it until their Junior year and try to cram it all in.

 

[PTWOB02]

Research will be sought after heavily by state u's and prestige ****** alike. Actually they're all prestige ******. Some are just high dollar ones

Does anybody know how much research is needed? If I volunteer to be a research assistant for my school this summer for a month, is that considered to be enough time?

Generally speaking, what is the best way to find those positions over the summer? I've emailed and called several chemistry and biology department heads but no answers yet. I think I'll go to their office and ask them directly.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Does anybody know how much research is needed? If I volunteer to be a research assistant for my school this summer for a month, is that considered to be enough time?

Generally speaking, what is the best way to find those positions over the summer? I've emailed and called several chemistry and biology department heads but no answers yet. I think I'll go to their office and ask them directly.

LOL a month? Try more like 2 years or more.

 

[drdan83]

I believe that medical schools want to see commitment so I would rather do one or two things for a period of time than several things for a short period of time.

 

[Nasrudin]

Does anybody know how much research is needed? If I volunteer to be a research assistant for my school this summer for a month, is that considered to be enough time?

Generally speaking, what is the best way to find those positions over the summer? I've emailed and called several chemistry and biology department heads but no answers yet. I think I'll go to their office and ask them directly.

No is research is needed. It's a skill. An asset. That varies in it's quality and punch/lb/applicant.

When research talent is sought. It's because you're good at it. And you're proven at it. And you therefore have some likelihood of continuting this activity to bring the potential drafting institution both money and prestige and therefore more money. It's a primary engine of medical institutions. And it needs fuel.

Beyond that there is some lukewarm benefit in having you acculturated into this insititutional value system.

So it's only a slight bonus is small doeses. Like any other EC. If you're doing is for checking boxes, at least be interested in it. Otherwise it's value won't justify the expense of time invested.

Research teams want commitment. If they train you to do even some mundane activities they want a return on their investment. Novices can also be very expensive in a lab setting. Mistakes can be real setbacks in wasting expensive materials etc.

It is only a sought after commodity if it is actually that. Marketable.