just starting out

[oldermd2b]

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Hi everybody,

I just have a few questions regarding school. I will outline my history, and you will see that I started awfully, before I began to consider medicine (what a dummy I was, I didn't take school seriously at all! Oh, the regrets).

* I hated High School and cut class and ended up dropping out my senior year (I include this because I know the UC system wants to see your High School transcripts). A few years later, I took the GED and did very well (not that it matters -- that test was easy). I was last in High School in 1989 (yikes that makes me feel old!).

* I took a few classes at the community college where I lived then. I got a B in an English class that I just floated through, not even turning in some assignments, and I dropped other classes. I had no goals and was not serious about school.

* I moved and then years later took some classes at my local community college, but still was not serious about school, dropped lots of classes, and got lots of "w"s on my transcript.

* I then took 3 classes and actually made an effort, and I got 3 A's. However, I got a progress dismissal at the end of that semester because all my previous "w"s were too many. I appealed the dismissal, the dean saw that I had improved my performance, and he reversed it. I have been in "good standing" since.

* I have taken several classes since, although I haven't started my sciences. I have not been particularly aggressive in taking classes, only completing 1 or 2 per semester (and sometimes taking a semester off). On all of these classes, I got A's.

* Other things of intrest: I became a medical assistant in the '90s and worked for a family practice doc for a couple of years before moving to the hospital, where I still work to this day.

Okay, my questions:

How awful is my awful start? How much is that terrible beginning going to hurt me when it comes to getting into med school?

Is it terrible to begin at the community college level and then transfer to a UC? How much will that hurt me?

If I increase the # of units I am taking, plus continue on with my 4.0, plus transfer to the UC, do you think I can repair my less-than-impressive standing?

What else can I do?

Thank you for any advice and information you can give me. SDN is a fantastic resource and your input will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you, OlderMD2B

 

[146233]

Welcome!

How awful is my awful start? How much is that terrible beginning going to hurt me when it comes to getting into med school?

It doesn't sound that awful, to tell you the truth. Sure, you have a bunch of W's. Presuming that the recorded grades you do have on your transcript are decent (a B in English is definitely decent), it isn't that awful at all. I started undergrad knowing (or thinking I knew) I wanted to be a physician, and still got 3-4 F's, two D's, and a W in my first two semesters (they were all in pre-req courses, too). I should have been so wise (as you were) to just drop the courses. My BCPM ("science") GPA is absolute trash because of that, in spite of the 3.7 I carried in undergrad and graduate school when I finally decided to grow up. The worst thing you have going for you is a bunch of W's, which are far and away better than the grades I have.

Is it terrible to begin at the community college level and then transfer to a UC? How much will that hurt me?

Tons of people get their start at a community college. Your background also makes a good case for you - you had a rough start in school, did some repair work and built confidence at a community college, and decided you were ready to transfer to a 4-year UC. I think that would be just fine.

If I increase the # of units I am taking, plus continue on with my 4.0, plus transfer to the UC, do you think I can repair my less-than-impressive standing?

Like I said earlier, it doesn't seem that your standing is too bad right now. It doesn't sound like you have that many recorded final grades on your transcripts (and the ones you had were just fine), so your GPA's are very malleable at this point. Just make sure you continue to do very well, and I think that once you finish a bachelor's degree (and the tons of credits you'll have by then), schools will look past your "false start" and see what you're truly capable of.

What else can I do?

For right now, just focus on keeping the string of A's going. You have a long road ahead of you, but your understanding of your lackluster beginnings and your clear ability to excel will both serve to get you to where you say you want to be. I wouldn't recommend distracting yourself from your studies with anything just yet. Besides, you're working in an FP's office; that's your clinical experience right there. Do well in school and the rest will unfold in due course.

Best of luck!
-z

 

[gotmeds?]

How awful is my awful start? How much is that terrible beginning going to hurt me when it comes to getting into med school?

Could be worse. Yes it will hurt you, but I don't think it will kill your chances.

Is it terrible to begin at the community college level and then transfer to a UC? How much will that hurt me?

Not at all, unless your grades drop once you start at the UC.

If I increase the # of units I am taking, plus continue on with my 4.0, plus transfer to the UC, do you think I can repair my less-than-impressive standing?

As long as you maintain that 4.0, you can make a good case for having been young and stupid until you found your calling. If you can maintain a 4.0 over the next 3-4 years, it'll buy you a lot of forgiveness.

What else can I do?

Keep up the good work. You mentioned that you haven't taken the science pre-reqs yet. This is a good thing. You can potentially apply to med school with a 4.0 BPCM GPA. I had a low UG GPA, but I was a non-science major. My BCPM GPA was 4.0 (through post-bacc classes) when I applied to med school and...well...I'm pretty happy with how things turned out.

 

[StrengthDoc]

You've already received some great input. The only thing I can say is to second that starting out at the CC and then transferring isn't going to hurt you if you keep the grades solid.

Just keep plugging away at it. 👍

 

[relentless11]

* I hated High School and cut class and ended up dropping out my senior year (I include this because I know the UC system wants to see your High School transcripts). A few years later, I took the GED and did very well (not that it matters -- that test was easy). I was last in High School in 1989 (yikes that makes me feel old!).

As a transfer student, UC's only care about how you did at the community college. The high school transcripts are to verify that you met the UC admissions criteria (2 years of foreign language, 3 years of math, blah blah). The criteriae might have changed since that was over a decade ago for me.

* I have taken several classes since, although I haven't started my sciences. I have not been particularly aggressive in taking classes, only completing 1 or 2 per semester (and sometimes taking a semester off). On all of these classes, I got A's.

Its good that you have A's, however I'm not sure what the transfer policies are, but don't you have to be full-time? At UC, you have to be a full-time student to maintain good standing. It behooves you to do well under full-time conditions given that you have not proved yourself at the university level yet. This isn't even about med school, since at UC, you will probably be taking 4-5 classes per quarter. Also, you will be a junior at a UC when you transfer. Therefore you will take upper division courses which are much harder than lower division courses offered at a community college.

How awful is my awful start? How much is that terrible beginning going to hurt me when it comes to getting into med school?

Starting off at a community college is not a problem, especially in California. I was a transfer student, and I have not had any problems coping with students who were conventional students. I did my undergrad at UCD, and continuing at UCD as a PhD student. You may have to explain the W's, however as time moves forward, it may become less relevant to med schools. However for personal training reasons, you will have to see if you can handle full-time coursework, and the competition at the UC's.

Is it terrible to begin at the community college level and then transfer to a UC? How much will that hurt me?

For the most part, no. However some med schools do not accept med school pre-reqs taken at a community college. This is only a small handful (like 2-4 schools). UC San Diego School of Medicine states that your med school pre-reqs should be taken at a university. Thats "should", not a requirement, but that is the extent which the UC's address the community college perspective. However, you are ALWAYS expected to do well under all conditions and are advised to take the most rigorous route. This "rigor" component usually applies to Organic Chemistry where there's lower division and upper division OChem. Most med schools advise you take the harder one which is NEVER offered at a community college.

If I increase the # of units I am taking, plus continue on with my 4.0, plus transfer to the UC, do you think I can repair my less-than-impressive standing?

Yes, but I'd come back to us when you are ready to apply to med school and have taken the MCAT. Its far far far FAR more than just grades, and the UC world is a lot different than the community college world. I'd be more focused on transferring right now than anything else. You will need 45 quarter units and a GPA of 3.0 now to meet the transfer agreement criteria. Of course if you're going the IGETC (is that still around?) route than that may take longer. After that, you'd have at least another 2 years of undergrad work in whatever field you choose. A lot can happen in 1 year, so I'd set this med school thing on the back burner and focus on the here and now.

 

[oldermd2b]

Hello and thank you for all the advice!🙂

I saw a counselor at my CC yesterday and we mapped out my course to transfer. She didn't say anything about needing to be full-time in order to transfer. In fact, the plan she mapped out has me taking about 2 classes per semester, a math and a science, making sure to get the prerequisite for each before moving to the next, like climbing a ladder. I will be seeing the UC rep in the fall, so I am definitely going to ask about this -- thanks for the heads up!

As for the IGETC, it is still around, but the counselor said that I would not be following it for transfer since I will be going for a bioscience major. I do still need a language, but my other GE stuff is done. It's pretty much math and science from here. She listed the lower-division math and science classes that I could take at the CC, and then showed me paperwork from the UC wherein they strongly advised the student to complete as many of the lower-division classes at the CC level as possible before transferring. That said, she then told me that the UC rep may advise transferring much sooner, taking many of those classes and maybe even the single semester of language (she said one semester, not two, which I thought was weird) at the UC.

My focus right now is definitely working towards transfer. At this point, I am using the goal of Med School as inspiration and also as a way to keep myself on track. I am definitely going to ask the UC rep about whether or not I need to take a heavier load in order to transfer, and also if she thinks it's a good idea just so that I can prove to myself and the UC that I can handle a more rigorous course. I'll definitely let you guys know what the rep says on these subjects.

Thanks for all the words of inspiration considering my weak beginnings. Glad to know that I am not doomed before I begin and that it's not as bad as I'd thought.

Thank you!
OlderMD2B

 

[relentless11]

As for the IGETC, it is still around, but the counselor said that I would not be following it for transfer since I will be going for a bioscience major. I do still need a language, but my other GE stuff is done. It's pretty much math and science from here. She listed the lower-division math and science classes that I could take at the CC, and then showed me paperwork from the UC wherein they strongly advised the student to complete as many of the lower-division classes at the CC level as possible before transferring. That said, she then told me that the UC rep may advise transferring much sooner, taking many of those classes and maybe even the single semester of language (she said one semester, not two, which I thought was weird) at the UC.

I didn't go the IGETC route OR transfer agreement route. So be very wary of transferring without the specific number of units which I recall was at least 45quarter units. The transfer agreement guarantees admission, while without one, you are just like any other applicant. I got into the UC of my choice, but you are now competing in a world of high school students who have 4.0 GPA's and above who are merely guaranteed admission at some UC, not a specific one anymore too. Therefore the more major pre-reqs that you have done, the better off you are since it shows that you can get in and get out of the UC system quickly.

This is why I find it odd that your advisor thinks the UC rep may ask you to transfer early. UC wants you to not come in and use up lower division coursework since you already spent x-amount of years at a CC anyway. Be advised that UC foreign language courses are much more rigorous than high school. Here at UCD, they were 5 units (5-days a week), compared to the standard 3-4 unit science courses that you normally take.

My focus right now is definitely working towards transfer. At this point, I am using the goal of Med School as inspiration and also as a way to keep myself on track. I am definitely going to ask the UC rep about whether or not I need to take a heavier load in order to transfer, and also if she thinks it's a good idea just so that I can prove to myself and the UC that I can handle a more rigorous course. I'll definitely let you guys know what the rep says on these subjects.

You will also find that advice from a UC rep and pre-health advising may differ. UC pre-health advising is pretty good given their close relationship with their associated med schools. I bring up the heavier courseload before you transfer because it is good for you to prepare for the required full-time courseload at UC. As a community college student in the late 90's, I took 15 units per quarter. Mainly because most of our classes were 5 units each. When I arrived at UCD, we had 3-4 unit quarters, and were required to take 12 units per quarter. It was a lot easier ironically.

 

[oldermd2b]

Hello again,

I am planning to do the transfer agreement. The CC counselor talked to me about it, and also said the the UC actually favors transfer students from CC's. Also, I will have the recommended # of units for transfer when I go so long as I do all the lower division stuff at the CC. I wondered why the CC counselor thought that the UC rep would suggest my transferring before finishing the lower division stuff since the UC paperwork clearly stated the same thing you are telling me: that they want the transfer student to complete all of lower division coursework at the CC before transferring. I'm guessing the UC rep will echo that advice. Also, I want to take my language at the CC.

What do you suppose the differences will be in advice from the UC rep and the pre-health advisor? Just curious.

We do semesters at my CC, and the math and science classes I need are each 5 units, so I will be taking 10 - 15 units a semester.

At this point I am just eagerly awaiting the fall semester so I can get started! Thank you for all the advice.

OlderMD2B

 

[relentless11]

Hello again,

I am planning to do the transfer agreement. The CC counselor talked to me about it, and also said the the UC actually favors transfer students from CC's.

Well thats because: (1) you're a California resident so by law, UC's have to favor you. (2) it really only applies to you meeting the selection criteria, whether it be by transfer agreement or taking sufficient amounts of your major pre-reqs. However, if you don't do a transfer agreement, and don't make a sufficient case, your favorability drastically goes down.

Also, I will have the recommended # of units for transfer when I go so long as I do all the lower division stuff at the CC. I wondered why the CC counselor thought that the UC rep would suggest my transferring before finishing the lower division stuff since the UC paperwork clearly stated the same thing you are telling me: that they want the transfer student to complete all of lower division coursework at the CC before transferring. I'm guessing the UC rep will echo that advice. Also, I want to take my language at the CC.

You will find that couselors don't know too much, despite working at their various schools for ages. Even the UC couselors aren't all that helpful at times! Thats fine if you take the language at the CC, that should make things a lot easier.

What do you suppose the differences will be in advice from the UC rep and the pre-health advisor? Just curious.

If you take OChem at the CC, the UC rep would probably say that is sufficient for your pre-med requirements. Mainly to keep transfer students from taking OChem at the UC to keep the classes from getting full for their students. In reality, all med schools, including the UC's tell you to take the "most rigorous option". This would be upper division OChem, not the lower division OChem offered at a CC. For me, I took OChem at the CC, however when I transfered to UCD, I took the OChem for the chemistry majors (there was one for health sciences too) just to remove any doubt about not being able to handle OChem at a university. It was actually easier😉.

The UC rep may not even know what the med school pre-reqs are depending on which UC you are going to. Lets say UCSC, or UCSB...UC's that don't have a med school for example. I knew of one student at my CC who was ecstatic that they could use their AP classes to get out of Bio and Calc. Sadly, med schools don't count AP courses (specifically the UC med schools). So she had to spend ane extra year taking courses that would count for the pre-reqs.

Lastly, there is such a variety of things that get you in or don't get you into ANY med school that no counselor can really give you a good idea of what is the best thing to do other than taking the pre-reqs and doing well in them. Same applies to these forums.

I think 10-15 semester units is fine, however be wary that unless you're going to UC Merced or UC Berkeley, you will be on the quarter system. So pretty much picture doing a class in 10 weeks, where the last week is finals. First exam within 2-3 weeks into the quarter. Then you get a 2-3 week break for Xmas, and do it all over again. Then a 1 week break and then do it again for spring quarter😉. The CC I went to was a quarter based system though so it didn't effect me at all, however some of my friends from semester-based CC's were traumatized at how fast the exams came. Some classes had more than one exam too, so every 2 weeks you had an exam..haha. Keeps you on your toes though. I love it. Good luck!