Just what the heck is this?

[Tipsy McStagger]

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Physician Wellness

emed.stanford.edu

It's only 2 years! What a deal

I imagine the opportunity cost is made up in the lucrative job openings for a wellness officer post fellowship. I also imagine that opportunity cost dose worlds of good for your own wellness.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Sarcasm aside, you might be surprised at the BS admin opportunities it provides.

Our system just hired an MD as 0.2 FTE system vice president for wellness

Good wellness training could put you to the front of the line for cushy C-suite if that's where you wanna be

~if~

 

[bravotwozero]

I’m going to start an espresso fellowship.

 

[wholeheartedly]

All the training in the world won’t help you promote wellness when the system is as screwed up as it is. The sooner we acknowledge that external factors are more of a problem and where solutions need to occur, the better. Not real optimistic though…

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Sarcasm aside, you might be surprised at the BS admin opportunities it provides.

Our system just hired an MD as 0.2 FTE system vice president for wellness

Good wellness training could put you to the front of the line for cushy C-suite if that's where you wanna be

~if~

Well I'll be... today I learned. 2 years seems absurd though.

So the less you train to be a physician, the more likely you'll get to be a leader of physicians. Reminds me of the old Gilbert and Sullivan song from HSM Pinafore where the secretary of the Navy is basically telling people that to rise to the top you have to do as little of that job as possible.

"Stick close to your desk,
and never go to sea,
and you all may be rulers of the King's navy..."

 

[Birdstrike]

EM Wellness Fellowship curriculum:

Don't do EM.

Then end.

 

[Siggy]

I’m going to start an espresso fellowship.

You're going to be competing with the EMTs...

 

[alpinism]

The funny thing is that of the 10+ Stanford fellowships only 2 have been ACGME accredited.

 

[alpinism]

At this point we minds well also have a craft beer fellowship.

Put a brewery in the ED for patients and their families.

 

[wholeheartedly]

At this point we minds well also have a craft beer fellowship.

Put a brewery in the ED for patients and their families.

PG scores would go up for sure. Morale would probably improve.

 

[Tenk]

We need a chick fil a fellowship a hell of a lot more than this crap.

 

[skougess]

In n out fellowship. Let’s go full circle.

 

[shotgunlagoon]

In n out fellowship. Let’s go full circle.

Mmmmmm.... Nothing compares to their thousand island sauce....

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

All these unaccredited programs need to be replaced with a generic "Academics Fellowship". You would then have the option to do a master's degree and research in whatever area you wanted to focus on.

I don't want to discount someone's academic focus or research, but having a separate fellowship for every little thing is ridiculous and reflects poorly on the specialty as a whole.

 

[wholeheartedly]

This seems fitting

 

[southerndoc]

In n out fellowship. Let’s go full circle.

Driving around the other day, I saw an In-n-Out Cleaners. I'm surprised In-n-Out Burgers hasn't sued them. Technically, bad In-n-Out Burgers could be In-n-Out Cleaners too. LOL

 

[Apollyon]

Driving around the other day, I saw an In-n-Out Cleaners. I'm surprised In-n-Out Burgers hasn't sued them. Technically, bad In-n-Out Burgers could be In-n-Out Cleaners too. LOL

That probably wouldn't work, because it is clearly not a place you get a burger. Did you ever notice that Target red and Coca Cola red are the same shade? Target gets away with it because they are clearly not making soda (even if they sell it).

I know you were making a joke with half of that, but, this is just something I know.

 

[shotgunlagoon]

That probably wouldn't work, because it is clearly not a place you get a burger. Did you ever notice that Target red and Coca Cola red are the same shade? Target gets away with it because they are clearly not making soda (even if they sell it).

I know you were making a joke with half of that, but, this is just something I know.

Same with Dove soap/skincare and Dove chocolates. Completely separate companies that look awfully similar. I didn't realize they were separate. i was just like "Huh, I guess the moisturizer and soap people also make chocolate? It's pretty decent chocolate, too. Wonder what's the history behind that..." and then didn't ever think about it again.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Same with Dove soap/skincare and Dove chocolates. Completely separate companies that look awfully similar. I didn't realize they were separate. i was just like "Huh, I guess the moisturizer and soap people also make chocolate? It's pretty decent chocolate, too. Wonder what's the history behind that..." and then didn't ever think about it again.

Directions unclear, ate dove soap

 

[EctopicFetus]

The poor saps that are residents think this will help them. Job market is a disaster. Spend 2 more years training for a field. The opportunity cost is sky high. Then afterwards you end in a position of nonsense that pays less with no upside. There is a glut of stupid fellowships out there; to each their own. people have to make their own decisions but so many fail to seek advice or are afraid to start their careers. More stupid fellowships coming. Why not. $$ making for sites and you get a bunch of extra free labor as well.

 

[WilcoWorld]

At some point, a fellowship is so clearly non value-added that it becomes predatory. I'm not sure where that line is...

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

I'd really like to see the job-placement outcomes for this thing. Imagine doing a 4-year residency and a 2-year "Wellness Fellowship" to end up working in the community.

 

[Birdstrike]

Solving Burnout in the ED:

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Solving Burnout in the ED:

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

That was the old strategy. Strategy now is to just keep cutting y'all's pay until you quit. You can't be burnt out on a job you don't have anymore.

 

[namethatsmell]

Isn't it a bit antithetical to complete a wellness fellowship...and then embark on a career in the ED?

 

[DoctwoB]

Physician Wellness

emed.stanford.edu

It's only 2 years! What a deal

I imagine the opportunity cost is made up in the lucrative job openings for a wellness officer post fellowship. I also imagine that opportunity cost dose worlds of good for your own wellness.

Also ironic, because while I can't speak as to the EM program, all I've heard about Stanford in other specialties is that despite not being super busy residents are treated poorly and not prioritized. Many residents/fellows were reallocated to work in COVID wards rather then putting more burden on faculty (and this is in an area where case loads never got overwhelming). Also see recent news of them having to protest to get access to COVID vaccine prior to administrative faculty.

 

[aafisahar]

Also ironic, because while I can't speak as to the EM program, all I've heard about Stanford in other specialties is that despite not being super busy residents are treated poorly and not prioritized. Many residents/fellows were reallocated to work in COVID wards rather then putting more burden on faculty (and this is in an area where case loads never got overwhelming). Also see recent news of them having to protest to get access to COVID vaccine prior to administrative faculty.

the scariest doc in the community is a stanford trained doctor

 

[thegenius]

the scariest doc in the community is a stanford trained doctor

BAM!

POW!

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

the scariest doc in the community is a stanford trained doctor

Eh one of my ex partners was a Stanford residency guy. We are in the sticks in the SE and he’s one of the best docs I ever worked with.

 

[clibby]

I mean, if there are EM docs who want to spend a year not being miserable in the pit doing a fellowship to give them a leg up on a faculty position afterwards, I say go for it. The fellowship also puts them through a faculty development program via ACEP. Nobody does a wellness fellowship or academics to hit FIRE by 40. Not everyone needs to move to the southeast chasing the $300/hr SDG gig of the past.

Most of these non ACGME fellowships pay outside the GME structure, though PGY4 pay at Stanford is about $93,000. If you need to be in the Bay Area for personal reasons and the options are to make $170-200/hr for 16-18 shifts being miserable or make ~$120,000 (usually these pay more than the GME schedule since you can bill) in exchange for 8 shifts (~160/hr depending on shift length) per month where residents do most of the work plus any moonlighting in addition to those 8 shifts, it starts to not look as terrible as it seems at first.

Obviously it isn’t for everyone and calling it Physician Wellness is a bit silly, but it seems like it is a way to develop a faculty niche for the right person. I also think it would be more of a waste if you didn’t have a name like Stanford behind it too. It’s kind of like getting an MBA at Wharton vs WGU; the latter is a waste 99% of the time. There are worse things to do with your time and career.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

I mean, if there are EM docs who want to spend a year not being miserable in the pit doing a fellowship to give them a leg up on a faculty position afterwards, I say go for it. The fellowship also puts them through a faculty development program via ACEP. Nobody does a wellness fellowship or academics to hit FIRE by 40. Not everyone needs to move to the southeast chasing the $300/hr SDG gig of the past.

Most of these non ACGME fellowships pay outside the GME structure, though PGY4 pay at Stanford is about $93,000. If you need to be in the Bay Area for personal reasons and the options are to make $170-200/hr for 16-18 shifts being miserable or make ~$120,000 (usually these pay more than the GME schedule since you can bill) in exchange for 8 shifts (~160/hr depending on shift length) per month where residents do most of the work plus any moonlighting in addition to those 8 shifts, it starts to not look as terrible as it seems at first.

Obviously it isn’t for everyone and calling it Physician Wellness is a bit silly, but it seems like it is a way to develop a faculty niche for the right person. I also think it would be more of a waste if you didn’t have a name like Stanford behind it too. It’s kind of like getting an MBA at Wharton vs WGU; the latter is a waste 99% of the time. There are worse things to do with your time and career.

Knowing that you're going to be a pgy6 and the only thing you can do is EM or admin just hurts to even think about. 6 years...to still just work in the ED. Ugh. I mean we live our lives our own way, I respect that. I'll never be convinced that an EM person should train 6 years to stay in the ED though. But I guess nobody has to convince me, if it's what you're into then roll with it I guess.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Knowing that you're going to be a pgy6 and the only thing you can do is EM or admin just hurts to even think about. 6 years...to still just work in the ED. Ugh. I mean we live our lives our own way, I respect that. I'll never be convinced that an EM person should train 6 years to stay in the ED though. But I guess nobody has to convince me, if it's what you're into then roll with it I guess.

Agreed. Maybe in the cynic but I would find your job and stick to it. I think we have 1 to 2 more cycles and jobs will be incredibly hard to come by. As I have said over and over the 10k too many docs really translates into 30k underemployed docs. Most of them have student loans. Many have families. Wasting your time doing some nonsense fellowship is a bad idea. You can enjoy it (I cant imagine who this person would be). I get admin, I get hyperbarics, I get tox, US etc. Wellness? GTFO.

But as we have heard there is a sucker born every minute and to each their own. Is stanford going to fire a current faculty person for this wellness fellow to get a faculty spot? I dont think so. Will this person have a leg up over someone without it sure. In 2 years im not sure they will be hiring, then what? In the community you will likely be laughed at for being a sucker doing this.

Stanford has plenty of other fellowships too, they have a social medicine fellowship. They want everyone to know they are woke on a whole other level. Again, its all fine but docs have to go into this eyes wide open and have a plan after the fact. I strongly considered doing an MBA but as noted above I didnt want it from some no name school. If it is purely knowledge I want I can do that on my own. If it is the degree and therefore pedigree thats a different path/plan. I decided it wasnt for me for a number of reasons. Maybe one day ill change my mind but the aim would be to then leave EM not continue grinding out weekends and holidays.

 

[EMhawkeye]

the scariest doc in the community is a stanford trained doctor

I worked with one. He’s got a lot of weird covid conspiracy theories and anti covid vax. Also a huge conspiracy theorist in generalist with politics. I don’t think they screen for critical reasoning skills but that’s based on a n of 1.