Just Wondering...about personality

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EHCMD

EHCMD

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10+ Year Member
Is it possible to be an introverted, antisocial personality and be a candidate for medical school...

it's just something that came to mind today...i've always been shy introverted, and antisocial...I love being alone...and...i've always wanted to be a doctor...so is it possible?...how will ad.comms view this ?

any one else out there in the same position?


thanks...
 
Do you have any friends? If you do, then you're not as antisocial as you think. What kind of medicine do you want to practice? Do you want to do academic medicine? There is a social aspect to most if not all types of medicine, so you'll really have to evaluate what it is you want to do with medicine.

IMO, it takes all kinds. When it comes to medical school and interviews, you're going to at least have to be outgoing enough to engage your interviewers. If you're that awkward that that sounds like a daunting or seemingly impossible task, you may face a challenge. And you might want to start working on that now.
 
I agree with the above poster that it depends on what you mean by "anti-social". I'm more interested in how you handle work and professional situations. If by anti-social you mean barely talking to people at work and coming across as cold and unfriendly you'll probably run into problems on the units or during training. You'll often be working as a team with fellow residents, the attendings, and ancillary staff. If you come across as a creepy introvert then it'll negatively impact you. But if you can come across as a team player, someone that people can depend on, communicate effectively in rounds or presenting a patient, show some warmth with patients and at least a semblance of a sense of humor, then being shy and kind of reticent shouldn't be a problem. Just learn to smile a lot and be helpful.

Nobody expects everyone to be a social butterfly or a cut-up. Being the quiet helpful, dependable, nice person works too.
 
Introverts yes. I remember there was a thread I looked at awhile back on the myer-briggs personality test and there were many intj pre meds.

I would consider myself an introvert most of the time. But then I also have those nights where I just need to get out and surround myself with a crowd.

The shyness aspect is another thing I can relate to, however, lately I'm pushing myself to get through it and noticing that I'm more vocal in the classroom these days.

I think the more you can surround yourself around people and become familiar with that setting, you should eventually become comfortable.
 
EHCMD said:
Is it possible to be an introverted, antisocial personality and be a candidate for medical school...

it's just something that came to mind today...i've always been shy introverted, and antisocial...I love being alone...and...i've always wanted to be a doctor...so is it possible?...how will ad.comms view this ?

any one else out there in the same position?


thanks...
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The entire medical training process selects for more extroverted types--they interview better, they get better subjective evaluations for clinical encounters, patients like them more, etc. Just knowing a lot of medical facts is not enough to do well in many contexts, especially after your second year of med school. Try searching in the Clinical Rotations forum, and you will find plenty of threads by shy, quiet people who feel like they are kind of in the shadow of their more outgoing peers on the wards.

If you want to make your application process and sojourn in medical school go more smoothly, you will probably find it helpful to learn to act more extroverted. People's personalities may not change much, but you *can* change your behavior so that you come across as being more personable. I am naturally a very introverted person too--to the point where when I was an adolescent, other people sometimes thought that I was a snob or didn't like them because I almost never talked to anyone. But if you make the effort to get to know people and let them get to know you, your rapport with others will improve. In fact, the best subscores and comments on my third year clerkship evaluations were almost always for patient communication/rapport. That would probably shock some people who knew me in high school. 🙂
 
EHCMD said:
Is it possible to be an introverted, antisocial personality and be a candidate for medical school...

it's just something that came to mind today...i've always been shy introverted, and antisocial...I love being alone...and...i've always wanted to be a doctor...so is it possible?...how will ad.comms view this ?

any one else out there in the same position?


thanks...
Click to expand...

It sounds like you have reservations, and rightly so. How introverted and antisocial are you? Why do you believe you'd be a great doctor?

Physicians don't need to be social butterflies, but there should be something that attracts you to medicine and working with people. If you consider yourself anti-social, please consider pathology, or something along those lines. If you have trouble interacting with most people, you probably will not be happy working as a physician, regardless of your academic capabilities.

The valedictorian of my high school class was one of my best friends, mostly because our families are close, and she's my age. She never learned to interact with anyone, even me. She's painfully shy, and from our 20+ years of friendship, I've learned that she finds most people inane and annoying. She has a genius-level IQ. She didn't "study" for the SAT or the MCAT. She got a 1600 (out of 1600 then) and a 41 on her MCAT. Her GPA has always been a 4.0...she never earned an A- in any class.

She is struggling in her residency. She's used to being the best at everything, and despite her A's in med school rotations, she was frustrated that everyone else seemed to have a better rapport with patients than she did.

I always hoped she'd realize that as an MD/PhD (or research scientist) she could change the world. With her ability and drive, I'm not exaggerating when I say that we might already have a cure for AIDS, or cancer. She is incredibly brilliant and motivated, and has the best intentions in the world.

After her education (and residency) at three of the best institutions in the world, she will probably be mediocre. Her patients won't trust her, despite her credentials. She can't relate to her mother, father, sister, brother, or me, her "best friend" in the world. We've even discussed the possibility that she has Asperger's...she is (probably) an autistic woman with incredible capabilities. Her mentor in medical school (I'll keep silent from here on out) is devastated by her decision to pursue her chosen residency. Given her abilities, she could have chosen anything. Surgery *should* require academic AND personal skills, but even surgery would have suited her better than the specialty she chose. But few would have actually turned her away from her desired residency, given her abilities. She scored as close to perfect on the USMLE as anyone ever has, and never earned less than an A.

She's not happy. I've known her for 23 of our 30 years, and I see it every time our families get together for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. She chose her field of practice because she's damn good at anything she chooses, and she WANTS desperately to be involved in her patients' lives. She wants to be good at giving advice. But she's incapable of forming stable relationships with her loved ones, who have provided her with stability and "normality," and equally incapable of helping her patients seek that normalcy.

Whatever makes you happy, do it. An MD degree may provide you some of the "normalcy" you sought in your own life, but it will not make you like people more. Figure out your niche in the medical field, or any other field that gives you satisfaction. Don't pursue anything you "should" because you're good at it or you have some misguided notion that it will provide clarity for you.

Medicine is not the glamorous field that most pre-meds believe it is. Pursuing medicine won't provide answers to you. It's a decidedly un-glamorous field that (despite impressing your family) will disappoint you more and more on a daily basis until you wonder why you bothered with it to begin with...unless you have really decided that you love it. In that case, you'll love medicine like you love your own child...beautiful and flawed and worth every second that you invest into it.
 
wow...thanks for all your responses...i really appreciate the comments and questions...they make me think...

i do have a few friends...had a few (not many) in HighSchool, but i've lost contact with them and I don't think they would be interested in reconnecting (IDK)...I had a few (less than in HS) in college, and i have managed to stay in contact with one of my friends from college, while we don't get together that often, be both know that we're there for each other when we need each other...my family, well i grew up feeling like i just didn't fit in with them, and was never really interested in staying in touch with them, except for one cousin, and he is the same way as i and moved away the first chance he got...i've actually found them online on FB, but don't have the urge to Friend Request them because i don't think they're interested...in life, i managed to build some relationships, and now i do have a ex-husband, his family (whom i'm closer to than he is), an amazing teenage son, and a current "spousal equivalent")...anyway...i guess maybe i'm not as antisocial as i think, but i'm very uncomfortable in social situations and around people that I don't know...

on the other hand though, if i have to speak to someone to get something i really need, i don't have a problem...i don't feel intimidated when I'm challenged...or in job interview situations...i prepare for these type of situations way in advance...and i alway make sure i've dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's...

as for being a doctor...well i've always wanted to be one...when i was young, I aspired to be a cardiovascular surgeon like Dr.Debakey or Dr.Cooley...but unfortunately I kinda gave up the dream when i got married the first time and had a child...and now that that child is almost grown...i've decided to do what i can to become that doctor that i've always wanted to be...maybe not necessarily the cardiovascular surgeon, but maybe a ER doctor or a general practioner...just a doctor who can help those who need help...i can be that "quiet helpful, dependable, nice person" who just wants to help others...

i just don't know...😕...i'm SO CONFUSED!!!
 
Here's an relavant article that just was circulated within my med school group,

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/health/14chen.html?em

many physicians constantly interact with patients; being outgoing is close to essential to do this for decades as a physician. This is not to say one must be a social butterfly, but if it is truly difficult or painful to work frequently with other people, many specialties would not be a good fit.

However, my understanding is pathology, or working in a lab as an MD/PhD, or some surgical route, could still be a great fit. A trauma surgeon had told me that one aspect of their career was that typically this person only sees patients at their worst (from the ER), and often the patient isn't even lucid, and typically this surgeon will never see the patient again. I've worked with many surgeons who are really not very adept at interacting with people, so I guess it's not a requirement in that area to be very outgoing.
 
In this process - trying to convince people we don't even know that we are good candidates for a career that we don't yet understand - just acknowledge that you can't be everything to all people. Your personality makes you an individual and while being an introvert might limit your appeal to some patients, others might appreciate a quiet approach.
 
A friend of mine who is incredibly shy and antisocial managed to get into med school.
He's even had several instances of vasovagaling during his interactions with pts (seriously), but he's an M3 and doing great otherwise.
Knowing that he's introverted, he plans to go into surgery.
 
nontrdgsbuiucmd said:
Here's an relavant article that just was circulated within my med school group,

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/health/14chen.html?em

many physicians constantly interact with patients; being outgoing is close to essential to do this for decades as a physician. This is not to say one must be a social butterfly, but if it is truly difficult or painful to work frequently with other people, many specialties would not be a good fit.

However, my understanding is pathology, or working in a lab as an MD/PhD, or some surgical route, could still be a great fit. A trauma surgeon had told me that one aspect of their career was that typically this person only sees patients at their worst (from the ER), and often the patient isn't even lucid, and typically this surgeon will never see the patient again. I've worked with many surgeons who are really not very adept at interacting with people, so I guess it's not a requirement in that area to be very outgoing.
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Thank you for sharing this article; it was quite interesting.

I will say, with regard to surgeons, well, I'd have to disagree. My colleagues and I have worked with surgeons for years, and really there is more and more stress on them not dictating all the shots and working together with the all team in an interdisciplinary way. Things have changed a lot in the hospital in this regard; though I think working more in a university setting is a factor too--as compared with being a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

But surgeons do work very closely with anesthesiologists and CRNAs, recovery nurses, techs, even nowadays pharmacists on rounds--that's the thing in many places--personally I like it--they are very helpful on rounds--not to mention physicians from different area,s and then there is the whole teaching factor with med students, residents, fellows, and even at times, the need to deal with unit social workers. And of course there is still interaction with patients and families.
It's hard to get away from it, and surgeons already work under an incredible amount of stress.

Perhaps pathology or maybe non-interventional radiology, but you will interact with people, just not as much. Surgeons, in my experience, interact with people a lot more than people think, while also having their feet held to the fire.

I don't know if there is so much of a problem with being an introvert though. I think it is a matter of degree and how much it will get in the way of dealing with many aspects of the role. I know lots of more reserved or introverted people in medicine. But they have learned to speak up when it is most important, and I think that is what makes the difference. In fact, in medicine and the whole health care field in general, many times less said is more.

However, even the article spoke of students that grew in this regard. It seems that ultimately what carried the most was how conscienctious the students were. I have to agree with that based on my experiences.

Thanks again for posting that. I'll have to share it with others. 🙂
 
Like QofQuimica, I am by nature an introvert who nevertheless has consistently received high marks and praise for my communication and rapport with patients. However, your ability to force yourself to successfully interact with patients doesn't mean that you will do well in medicine. When premeds are considering this field, they are told ad infinitum to make sure they like working with patients, but, IMO, receive far too little advice to make sure they can stand working with doctors, nurses, and other health care staff. You will have at least as many, if not more, interactions with these people as you will with patients. Overall I'm not doing that well in medical school because, even though I like patients just fine, I don't like doctors. It's a thousand times harder for me to put on a happy face and act engaged when I'm interacting with an attending, resident, or fellow student, than it is for me to do so when talking to a patient. You should consider whether this might be true for you as well.

Also, what riverjib said about how medical school won't give you a life makeover is very true. Don't go into medicine thinking "I need to make change X in my life and if I go to medical school I will be FORCED to do X." Becoming more extroverted can be done, but it is a choice you must make for yourself. It takes a sustained effort, and it's an effort that can be made regardless of whether you go to medical school or not.
 
well...i've given it a little more thought...and maybe y'all are right...maybe i'm not as anti-social as i think...i am shy...but...i'm also very much a team player...i think it's just in social situations where i don't know anyone that i get a little anxious:scared:...i will not initiate contact...but if you initiate contact i'll talk your ear off...as for my journey into a medical career...well thats a very long story that i'll save for another time...suffice it to say that i'm pretty sure i'm on the right track...it's not a decision that i made suddenly...but it's also not a decision that i've shared with too many people because of those negative responses that come along with it...even my spouse was a bit angry that i made this decision because it wasn't convenient for HIM...my son on the other hand was as excited as I was (for me) when I started school last semester on the same day that he went back to school...he was the one telling all his friends (and their parents) that his mom was going back to school to be a doctor...and that's another reason i don't want to share my decision...what if i don't get in?...i'm sure everyone is afraid of failure...but for me...i just rather people not know that i've failed at yet another thing...i know this is a rather long post where i'm just rambling and for that i do apologize...i'll end it now...thanks again for your thoughts, comments, suggestions, and reply's...🙂...
 
I'm an introvert who's done well in my clinical rotations and who manages to establish pretty good rapport with most patients, but then, in spite of the introversion, I like talking to people in one on one situations. My introversion really comes out in my hatred of mingling, and I'm still pretty uncomfortable with public speaking. I think introversion in some ways can be a benefit in patient interaction because introverts are usually good listeners -- instead of turning the patient encounter into us talking about us all the time, we listen to the patients. Good thing, imo.

As for the asocial thing (hopefully not antisocial because that means something more than just not liking to be around people), it could be more of a problem because I think enjoying patient interaction is probably an important part of liking medicine. It's a little less important in fields like pathology and even surgery, but even surgeons have clinic.

And as for the NYT article. Read it a few weeks ago, and N of 1 and all, but I test low for both extroversion and conscientiousness and have done well in both basic sciences and clinicals. I can see both traits being helpful, but you can do OK without them.
 
As you said, you're probably far less introverted than you thought. I was painfully shy as a kid, and fairly introverted in high school. I started college as an engineering major, because I loved science and thought I'd actually like spending the majority of my time working on projects alone, albeit with a team. Two things changed my mind: my experience as an intern for an engineering firm (interesting, but I felt isolated) and my clinical experience in the OR. I realized that I really LIKED talking to patients, and listening to what they had to say. It was comforting to me when I could somehow assuage their fears about surgery, and I liked talking to them about their families, their lives, and whatever they felt like discussing.

I'm definitely not extroverted, and I'll never be a socialite. I'm not the type of person who likes to go out every weekend with a large group of people. But in my adult life, I've found that I'm far more social than I ever thought I was. I really enjoy making meaningful connections to people. I like the occasional night out with colleagues (and now, classmates), but I really like good conversations with individuals or small groups of friends. I love interacting with patients and their families.

I think that to be a successful physician (or applicant) that you need to be comfortable with people, period. QofQuimica alluded to the fact that you will do much better if you interview well, and interact well with people at all levels of the hierarchy. You don't need to be class president or the homecoming king or queen. You just need to like people, and enjoy talking with them and learning how to ask the questions you need to do your job well. If you're painfully shy, or you find (through clinical experience) that you really HATE listening to people complain about their problems, medicine won't be easy for you until you obtain a job as a radiologist or pathologist. If you are generally introverted but really like talking (and listening) to patients, you're in the right field and you'll do well interviewing and interacting with colleagues and your superiors.
 
EHCMD said:
Is it possible to be an introverted, antisocial personality and be a candidate for medical school...

it's just something that came to mind today...i've always been shy introverted, and antisocial...I love being alone...and...i've always wanted to be a doctor...so is it possible?...how will ad.comms view this ?

any one else out there in the same position?

I hope so. I'm a big introvert and in my first year. It is a bit harder since medicine is geared towards extroverts. But keep in mind, there a lot of things that one can do with an MD that doesn't necessarily require being extroverted - research, radiology, surgeon, etc. I wouldn't let it hold you back if it's what you want to do. You just need to schedule in times alone to keep your sanity.
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EHCMD said:
Is it possible to be an introverted, antisocial personality and be a candidate for medical school...

it's just something that came to mind today...i've always been shy introverted, and antisocial...I love being alone...and...i've always wanted to be a doctor...so is it possible?...how will ad.comms view this ?

any one else out there in the same position?


thanks...
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Thanks for sharing your story. I am an introvert too. I prefer a job where there are not many interactions with people (co-workers in general)Though I am not pursuing medical school at the moment (getting a BS first before I decide on what to do for grad school), I am a rad tech pursuing a BS in radiation therapy. I dont have any advice for your adcomm interview, but generally speaking, your situation is not unique and can be applied in many situations.

Let me tell you, I am not a talkative person...acutally quite shy and very reserved. "We" are harder to define as an individual b/c well, we never say anything and when we do, it might awkardly said.

I'll tell you my situation: My instructors always thought I had the brain to pull through but not the social "team-work aspect" that is required for the job. I would always isolate myself from my other classmates with my head buried in our text books. Never went out with my classmates to hang-out even though I was invited. Basically, I was a recluse. I was competent but just not a person one can sit or "hang" with. But you see that is where it ends. I got in the health care profession b/c I love to work with patients. Honestly, where I "glowed" (no pun intended) was my patient care and ability to communicate with patients. I'd simply have a short chat with my patients making them happy and comfortable. The rest is history.

Basically, you like patients that is why you want to be a doctor?? i hope...you dont have to be talkative...be yourself, smile, work your strengths, communicate with your peers/co-workers ( you dont have to chit-chat with them just)...communicate so that the job gets done right....Our quietness can be overcome with Our aspects... whew...that was long...hope it helps!
 
Well, I've surely met introverted, socially challenged doctors, so there must be a way 🙂.
Lots of introverted people (myself included) have the ability to "turn it on" when they need to, even if it's not their preferred or energizing mode, and you probably need to be able to do that to make it through interviews and all of that. It's a skill, really.
 
Agree with Q. If you want to do well in medicine you must must must be able to find a way to put aside your shyness, introversion, and "anti-social" behavior. (FWIW, when you say anti-social to most it's a synonym for "psychotic", so if that's not what you meant I'd stop using this word; if it is what you meant, there is no place for you in the medical profession). You will be evaluated on how you participate, on rounds, during residency, during interviews, etc. The shy reserved people often don't get the benefit of the doubt, the person who is quick to engage the attending with the on point article he just read often gets the better eval. There have been many discussions on this on SDN, one last year on the clinical rotations board had many med students suggesting they felt penalized for their shyness on evaluations. On top of that, you have to realize that in medicine your whole job is going to be talking to people. Doesn't matter if you are primary care or a consultant -- it's a service industry and communications skills are huge. You will be expected to interview well, you will be expected to communicate with patients well, you will be expected to communicate with other professionals well, you will be expected to participate on rounds, to present patients to attendings and the group, to give presentations on various topics (on rounds or in class or even once you get to residency, at grand rounds or about your research at an annual national meeting). The need to be able to get out there and not be a wall flower never ends. Plus you will need to shine and sell yourself in med school interviews, residency interviews, interviews for jobs and so on.

And when you take histories from patients, in med school and beyond, you are going to have to get into the very intimate details of their lives -- their sex habits, drug habits, that growth they have on their anus, etc, etc. And you will be doing very violative exams on some of them. If your shyness makes this hard on you, you need to lose it at the door. You need to be able to bulldoze through the hard questions like its ordinary conversation to you, get them to reveal that when they said they never used drugs, they left out the daily IV heroin use, or that they don't consider same sex encounters sex, or what not. You need some social skills to do this job. These can improve with practice, but you need to be the type willing to bust out and put yourself into settings where you need to get the discourse going.

My suggestion -- join Toastmasters or take a Dale Carnegie public speaking course or something similar -- make yourself come out of your shell and perform in front of a room of strangers. Because you will need the ability to go outside of your comfort zone in this profession. No way to be that shy quiet guy/gal who never says anything and get very far in this service industry field. You WILL be penalized for it. Does you no good to know everything if you can't show that to an attending, and the latter two years of evaluations in med school (the more important two years) and all of your residency evals will be based on interpersonal encounters, not tests, for the most part. How you are with the patients and on rounds is what matters, not that you can ace a biochem test. That's helpful for the background, but not what attendings and residency directors care about. Sorry to ramble, hope this helps.
 
EHCMD said:
Is it possible to be an introverted, antisocial personality and be a candidate for medical school...

it's just something that came to mind today...i've always been shy introverted, and antisocial...I love being alone...and...i've always wanted to be a doctor...so is it possible?...how will ad.comms view this ?

any one else out there in the same position?


thanks...
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Maybe you could become a psychiatrist and treat introverted, antisocial personalities.
 
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