KCUMB to offer MD,DO degree?????

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by MedStudentWanna, Jul 14, 2009.

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  1. MedStudentWanna

    MedStudentWanna Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

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    Can anyone confirm or deny this???

    KCUMB is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools and recognized by the Coordinating Board of Higher Education for the Missouri Department of Higher Education. KCUMB is currently in the process of receiving MD accreditation. If successful KCUMB will be the first school to begin offering an MD,DO degree to all incoming students. Ideally the program will be in place for the incoming class of 2013.

    It's from Wiki, so I'm skeptical, but where did it come from??

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_University_of_Medicine_and_Biosciences
     
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  3. facetguy

    facetguy 7+ Year Member

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    Can a school just make up a new degree title?
     
  4. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Be careful what you read on Wikipedia. There's lots of stuff written there that can't be verified and may, in fact, be completely false.

    I cannot confirm or deny it, and I haven't heard anything about such a preposterous thing from the administration or from any other sources. This is the first time I've heard of it. *shrug*

    I do know there are preliminary plans on opening up a new school in conjunction with Missouri Southern State University. I don't know what the progress on that is.
     
  5. MedStudentWanna

    MedStudentWanna Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

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    That's why I was skeptical, but if it's true, imagine that.
     
  6. slick27

    slick27 controversial 7+ Year Member

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    Is KCUMB promoting it on their own website? If not, than I'm sure it is a false claim on wikipedia.
     
  7. pedsdoc2011

    pedsdoc2011

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    I am a student at KCUMB, and I have not heard anything about a dual MD/DO degree. I really don't see the point in creating that degree since DO physicians have all of the same rights as an MD and can practice just as an MD, although I think Michigan is great for having both programs at the same institution. I realize that some locations in the country may not have the same respect for or understand the DO degree fully, but we do still have the ability to practice in any field we choose. It just may be harder to be accepted in certain places, which I beleive is wrong.

    I can confirm that we have been notified that the school is currently seeking the rights to open a campus in southern MO.
     
  8. MedStudentWanna

    MedStudentWanna Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

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    I'm not saying it's true, but if the first class to be affected is the one that enters in the Fall of 2013, so the Class of 2017, I doubt current students would be alerted.

    I'm still skeptical. I just don't think that current students not knowing means much. I also don't know why anyone would bother to make up something like that and include it in an otherwise accurate and nice article about the school.
     
  9. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    Wouldn't class of 2013 be the year of graduation?? I've never heard of calling a class, a class by the year they enter school. Pointless discussion though ... it's not true.
     
  10. MedStudentWanna

    MedStudentWanna Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

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    It says "incoming class of 2013". I took that to mean those entering the university in fall of 2013. I think if it affected the class of 2013, that would be those entering the school this August. So wouldn't they know by now?
     
  11. Just Joshin

    Just Joshin New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Rumors about this sort of thing are nothing new. Supposedly, TCOM did a study to figure out the affects of offering an MD,Do degree according to the DO Reform Group.

    It's wise if you think about it. A lot of MD applicants would apply DO because they want to learn OMM, but they don't because they want the marketability of the MD degree. If KCUMB does this, they'll be inundated with applications I bet.
     
  12. facetguy

    facetguy 7+ Year Member

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    I doubt there is that much interest in OMM among pre-meds.
     
  13. WDeagle

    WDeagle 5+ Year Member

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    If this were true the students at KCUMB would probably be the last to know. Somehow i doubt the accuracy of this unless the school would make more money off of it.
     
  14. Just Joshin

    Just Joshin New Member 5+ Year Member

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    They'd probably get more applicants and probably attract students that would up the stats. What's the average MCAT/GPA stats now?
     
  15. ensuii

    ensuii 10+ Year Member

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    Something tells me DO schools don't really care about raising their stats...
     
  16. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Oh? What gives you that impression?
     
  17. ensuii

    ensuii 10+ Year Member

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    Well, there are a lot of them that are for-profit schools meaning that it behooves them to admit as many students as they can given their resources. Since most schools have an applicant to accepted ratio of at least 10:1, they aren't struggling to fill their seats. What's the point of having higher stats? I don't really think any of them care...especially since there's not a huge research incentive.
     
  18. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    I see what you mean. I do agree that a lot schools do seem to be very money hungry and almost contrary to their "not-for-profit" status. And then there are the for-profit ones appearing. Well, while I don't like the idea of for-profit schools, at least they are being honest. Ha.

    The reason I question your comment is that I recall at least one lecture given by a dean of a highly-reputable DO school citing the necessity of higher stats, especially given the increased competition. And guess what? Numbers ARE increasing and have been for a while.
     
  19. ensuii

    ensuii 10+ Year Member

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    Yeah, I don't know, maybe I'm just talking out of my ass...I app'd DO but ended up going to an expensive private MD. I just think that the reason why the stats are going up are because the degree is being seen as more and viable by applicants that are in the grey area for getting in somewhere and not necessarily because of anything DO schools are doing specifically. But it doesn't really matter why they're going up...DOs are in such a sweet position now with their insane growth and having DO residencies.
     
  20. Old_Mil

    Old_Mil Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    The lack of interest in OMM among pre-meds and medical students is only exceeded by that in practicing DOs.
     
  21. MedStudentWanna

    MedStudentWanna Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

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    Only ONE DO school is for-profit. All the others are non-profit including KCUMB.
     
  22. ironmaidenrules

    ironmaidenrules Junior Member 7+ Year Member

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    so true old_mil
    lol!!
     
  23. ensuii

    ensuii 10+ Year Member

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    My mistake...out of curiosity, which one is for profit?
     
  24. MedStudentWanna

    MedStudentWanna Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

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    Rocky Vista in Colorado. The Class of 2012 is its first class.
     
  25. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    Yeeaahhh I dunno. Only RVU is for profit, and it caused a huge stink in the community.


    This thread means nothing with verification from wikipedia and no where else.
     
  26. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    ... pre-med ... extremely interested in OMM. Just for the record. :thumbup:
     
  27. MedStudentWanna

    MedStudentWanna Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

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    Yeah same here. I know several pre meds who are interested in OMM.
     
  28. Boner

    Boner I just blue myself 7+ Year Member

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    Just wait until you start actually learning about it - that's when most most people change their tune...especially when you get to myofascial and cranial.
     
  29. cyclohexanol

    cyclohexanol No, no. Doggie afuera. 10+ Year Member

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    Snowed In
    Physician
    concur
     
  30. Cp22kjer

    Cp22kjer Bottom of the Food Chain 5+ Year Member

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    Fantasia

    Here's one who isn't!
     
  31. Alpha Block

    Alpha Block MSII

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    I am a student at KCUMB and I have heard the rumors as well. I can say with all certainty that this is more than just a rumor. Admin at KCUMB are actively investigating this and if they can pull it off, all incoming KCUMB students will graduate with both a MD and DO, probably starting in the next two years. However, it could fall through. It is much more than a rumor, but it's possible nothing comes of it.
     
  32. Cp22kjer

    Cp22kjer Bottom of the Food Chain 5+ Year Member

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    Fantasia

    Hmm interesting to say the least. If this goes through others will surely follow.
     
  33. futIDdoc

    futIDdoc Fighter of the Nightman 2+ Year Member

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    To do this they would have to be LCME accredited and COCA accredited. Highly doubt that'll happen. They would have to get rid of OMM to get LCME and keep OMM to have COCA.
     
  34. Just Joshin

    Just Joshin New Member 5+ Year Member

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    When you say starting in the next two years, do you mean the classes that would start in the next two years would graduate with that? I'm applying for the class of 2014. If the MD,DO degree starts with the class of 2015, would that mean the class of 2014 would get just a DO or could it be retroactively applied? Any thoughts?
     
  35. Boner

    Boner I just blue myself 7+ Year Member

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    The LCME did a site visit of DMU within the past two years. It was kept pretty hush-hush, and nobody really knows why they were doing a full site inspection.
     
  36. futIDdoc

    futIDdoc Fighter of the Nightman 2+ Year Member

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    Hmm...if the more well known DO schools get LCME accredited, I wonder what would happen to those DO schools that cannot get accreditation because of their setup (RVU) or just can't pass inspection (not gonna name names...but we can all think of some candidates). It would really create a have and have-not situation.
     
  37. engineeredout

    engineeredout Lightning Ballseeker 7+ Year Member

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    Are they actually going to modify the curriculum when including this MD? It would seem like they'd have to retroactively give everybody whos graduated an MD if everything remains the same.

    Still seems rather pointless though. Give a DO, an MD, MDO, DOM, whatever just pick one. Two degrees without actually studying for two separate degrees is kinda mis-represesntative isn't it? Unless this is all some big plan to look even more like AT Still. Next we'll all have to grow ridiculously long beards.
     
  38. Just Joshin

    Just Joshin New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Why do they have to get rid of OMM to get LCME accreditation? OMM isn't required to get an MD, but surely if someone studies OMM, they aren't excluded from receiving an MD.
     
  39. futIDdoc

    futIDdoc Fighter of the Nightman 2+ Year Member

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    ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  40. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    Yup. The second it happened, people from the class directly before the change would demand to have the retroactive MD,DO, leading to a chain reaction. All I can say is that they had a meeting about this at TCOM and it seemed to meet resistance all over the place and fall apart.

    Also, I have heard people argue that you wouldn't need LCME accreditation (I can't explain this, but I've read it in arguments) and there wouldn't need to be anything added to the education to make it MD, DO. It would just be getting a medical degree + extra training in OMM ... the exact way it is now, just recognized differently. Again though, I don't think the AOA would support something like this ... hence, I don't think it will happen.
     
  41. Old_Mil

    Old_Mil Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    You'll either get over it or end up as that lone hippie FP who hands out medical MJ to all his chronic pain patients and wears beads and burlap to bicycle to work...
     
  42. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    I know those MJ dealer 'doctors' are setting up practices all over my state. Had friends who have gone to them ... they literally just charge you $100+ to sit down and say you have a medical issue (which are listed nicely on their website), then they write you a license or script or whatever for a year, and you're on your way. People I know who went said the office was packed and these are probably the same guys who run the dispensory places. Seem like smart docs that are sick of the BS and have the morals of alley cats ... not so much hippies.

    I'm just going into it with an open mind. It seems interesting, don't think that makes me a hippy or a weed dealer.
     
  43. IDBasco

    IDBasco Atypical agent 7+ Year Member

    Says who? They conferred older classes the degree they were accredited to confer when the degree was earned.

    I also think the whole thing is kind of pointless. For people that aren't OK with being a DO, do something else. Otherwise, who cares? To me its almost like DNPs wanting to backdoor their way into being "doctors". But instead, its MD wannabes trying to backdoor their way into being a MD.
     
  44. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    It would take a lawyer representing alumni in a class action lawsuit about 90 seconds to rip that argument to shreds. IE: The older classes completed the same coursework, rotations, etc, could sit for USMLE boards ... bam, done.
     
  45. Just Joshin

    Just Joshin New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Yes I think you're right. When some people have a MD, DO and others have just DO from the same school, the perception is that the MD, DO folks have a broader education.

    I think an MD, DO degree is a great idea but that's just me.
     
  46. IDBasco

    IDBasco Atypical agent 7+ Year Member

    Didn't know you were an expert in law. Maybe you could cite precedent that would lead you to this conclusion?
     
  47. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    You learn something every day.


    Do you really not see any legal logic in what I'm saying?? I'm sure I could spend a few hours slumming around the internet and find various cases where this has happened, but I don't want to. I mean, if I said something that is totally outrageous from a legal standpoint, then okay ... maybe I'm wrong, but a. I really think it wouldn't be hard to find a precedent and b. I don't think my statement was absurd.
     
  48. JaggerPlate

    JaggerPlate 7+ Year Member

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    All I'm saying is this:

    -Right now, an education from KCUMB is an MD education with additional training in OMM. Otherwise, why would DOs be able to sit for boards and complete ACGME residencies right alongside MDs?
    -This means that to award an MD, DO degree ... the curriculum does NOT need to be tweaked
    -You're also right, MD, DO makes straight up DO seem less, or like something is missing
    -However, since the education is the same and people who worked just as hard at KCUMB aren't going to want to feel cheated, they will want to use the MD, DO.

    That's my logic ... and I really think a class action lawsuit would arise and win quickly.
     
  49. Packamylase

    Packamylase MSIV 5+ Year Member

    Joshin, I don't think that it will be retroactive. And I think all applicants will know what they're getting before they start KCUMB.
     
  50. Packamylase

    Packamylase MSIV 5+ Year Member

    I think KCUMB will need to add a more rigorous biochemistry curriculum.
     
  51. Bond8204

    Bond8204 Anatomy Lab Crasher 5+ Year Member

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    Hey Jagger, it's been awhile. After a year at CCOM, your appreciation for OMM probably also depends on the amount of time they force you to practice it. For about the first half of the year, I was furious about OMM because I couldn't feel a thing the professors were talking about (and even now, students still frequently get furious because professors will disagree over diagnosis often and on practicals).

    However, eventually I and the rest of my classemates began to learn what they were talking about. There was some moment my first year where I just happened to be practicing an HVLA technique and POP--it worked perfectly. After that I wanted to do that technique on anyone I could find. Then I learned another technique well. And another.

    It's not something I ever plan on using on patients..but it is somethign cool to show my friends and family--thanks to 4 hours a week practically every week. I appreciate soft tissue, muscle energy, and HVLA (high velocity low amplitude)...I've yet to be convinced on myofascial release or indirect techniques (mostly due to lack of exposure), and with the rest of the crowd, I think cranial is total bullcrap.

    Tangent over. Glad you're going in with an open mind. You'll get more out of it and enjoy it more that way.
     

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