Kicked out of dental school for lack of manual skills

[stdent9972]

I hope this gets a lot of responses, I need other people's input!!

Here is my situation:
I passed all of my classes last semester except dental anatomy lab (waxing) with a 69. I took the remediation and due to nervousness failed it too. Received a letter stating an immediate leave of absence and that I must return next year and repeat the D1 year over again. (I have not actually been kicked out of dental school yet, but must repeat the entire year.) Pretty harsh, huh?


However, that is not my dilemma at hand.

I have horrible, horrible manual skills. Since day 1, I have always been behind and turning in shoddy work while needing extra help, spending extra hours practicing and STILL doing much worse than everyone else.

Do I have what it takes to be a competent dentist?

I went and spoke to the 2 main professors for my dental lab classes so far. They told me that 6 of 8 hours in an average day would require manual skills.



Therefore:

The picture does not look good for me. Not only am I bad at waxing, operative and amalgam restorations, it has become traumatizing for me since I fail almost every practical.

Since dental school is practically a series of check-off sheets of manual projects requiring faculty signatures, faculty members have told me it will be difficult at best for me.

The only thing I will say, is that I do not believe that I am hopelessly bad at manual projects. However, I am practically the worst in a class of 100 people.

I was given the option to appeal the decision, however, my gut feeling told me that it would be highly likely I would fail operative dentistry and would be doomed to repeat the year anyway.


My questions:

1. Are manual skills an innate skill or can they be learned? Of course, everyone needs practice and it is difficult for everyone initially. But can dentistry be taught to a "trained monkey" or can some people simply never do it due to bad skills. Have people in your dental schools been effectively "asked to leave" due to their lack of skill?

2.Is dentistry like say basketball? I mean this by saying some people like Michael Jordan have excellent natural skills, while others could practice 50 hours a week and never even approach the level where they could play for a high school varsity team?

3. What can I do to improve my skills? Would working in a dental lab for 4-6 months help? What if I tried practicing wax carving or drilling teeth on plastic typodonts at home? I asked the faculty, and they said that without faculty guidance or help from a practicing dentist, it would be difficult to show good progress. Yet, if not enrolled as a student, I am forbidden from getting help from faculty.

4. Is there any sort of crash course to learn a lot of these skills? No one can seem to give helpful advice on this situation for me.


This is a horrible situation for me. I wish that wax carving was a prerequisite for dental school. Give 80's and 90's for good to excellent carvers. Only take people who score 80 and above.

I was doing fine academically. My dental anatomy lab grade lowered my average, as well as the time I had to put into it. My class rank was in the lower third. This is quite surprising considering that I had a stellar science gpa and DAT scores (likely top 10% of class) before starting.

Has anyone else had a difficult transition to dental school? By the way, I am 31 years old and on leave of absence right now. I am also looking at pharmacy as an alternative.

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[groundhog]

Since your hand skills are bit shaky but your undergrad GPA and DAT were stellar, you might want to consider taking the MCAT and applying to medical school while you are still officially a dental student.

I remember seeing a public tv documentary that was following the education of Harvard medical students as they transitioned to dealing with live patients. Many of them were sure a fumbly lot when it came to hand skills (starting IV's etc). The point is that one can easily get through even the most prestigious med school and become a licensed MD without having to possess competent surgical skills. The hand skills challanged MD can always refer surgical procedures to another MD or delegate simple matters such as administering injections and snipping tags to a supervised ARNP or PA.

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

i would also ask you to think another important factor called 'DISABILITY INSURANCE' once you get into your practice if you complete your degree.... this insurance is actually one of the highest for dentists compared to any other profession....!
in your case i guess the insurance companies would try to drain out a lot of money!

 

[Radioheadblue]

I think working in a dental lab would help you enormously. Having to use your manual skills 8 or so hours a day, and having to do this to put food on the table also provides some incentive. Also try taking a sculpture course, maybe that would help. What exactly is your problem? Are your hands shaky? You get nervous? There should be some type of medication for those problems right? Maybe a quick fix, like medicine, would give you the confidence to do those tasks without medication later on.

I wouldn't give up, but I'm not in your situation. Good luck.

 

[ShawnOne]

just wondering, how did you score on the PAT?

 

[critterbug]

I know this is probably irrelevant, but are you attending a state funded school or private school.

Just curious. I start in the fall, and this subject matter kinda scares me. I have always felt like I was competent with my hands, but I hope I don't have a rude awakening come next year. Keep us posted.

 

[Bickle]

Your not alone critterbug. I scored a 26 on the soap carving section of the canadian dat (one of the best scores in the country), and I'm still nervous about the manual dexterity needed in dschool.

 

[toothache]

well, getting nervous is not good, imagine if you were working on and patient and mess up, you can't use nervous as an excuse.

 

[Bickle]

Originally posted by toothache
well, getting nervous is not good, imagine if you were working on and patient and mess up, you can't use nervous as an excuse.

Hopefully by that time, doing those procedures on patients will become natural, and therefore nerves wont play a factor.

 

[dudelove]

I don't want you to feel badly, or sound harsh, but maybe you just don't have the manual skills to handle dentistry? This is nothing to be ashamed of. My advice is to work for a dental lab or something similar and see if you can improve your skills. I would closely work with the faculty members of your school to see if things improve. I am a bit confused...did you fail just the waxups or operative as well? We had a few people who failed operative in our class and they remediated during the summer. They all ended up passing, but I saw their clinical work in patients' mouths and it wasn't great. Good luck!

 

[larryt]

Yeah.. go and work in the dental lab to gain your confidence back bro. Good luck!

This is the main reason that I have spent so much time to practice in the past 2 years with my hand skills. My hand skills was suck before. Not to mention lots of money buying composites, diamond burs, root canals files and many others dental stuffs.

 

[scandalouslj]

One of the reasons I decided against IU. If you fail a course you basically have to take the whole year again, since it is blocked. Anyway I say keep practicing, I never thought I was good, but I have steadily seen progress as time goes on. You have to remeber Micheal Jordan didnt have natural skills, he didnt even make the team until the 3rd time he tried out! He had to fail twice and just keep practicing, so keep practicing!! A dental lab position for year would actually be a great thing to do if you have to take some time off before restarting next year, and remeber just becuase you are in the bottom of your class doesnt mean anything, passing is passing and someone has to be at the bottom, evenutally you will get better, I mean you have to dont you after doing the same prep a few hundred times? You cant just pick up a tennis racket and expect to play pro in 6 months (well some people can), thats basically what dental school is, so if it takes you longer don't sweat it.

 

[Energon]

One of the biggest mistakes freshman make is immidiately turning to 'tutors' like me. I always tell all the people I tutor, you have to find your own way to do things, there are no definite techniques to do any dentistry, use the instruments given to you in order to obtain the desired result. I remember, as a first year I was unable to do anything with wax... it just wouldnt work as a result I failed the first practical. I immidiately started to make mid night visits to the lab when no one else was there and start working on my own techniques. Needless to say, the school now pays me to tutor 1st years in lab. The way I see it you can:
1. Practice on your own in lab and believe me you will improve.
return to school, pass all the classes and if you still feel uncomfortable with your skills, go into public health or radiology
2. Apply to medical school. You will still get the patient exposure and manual dexterity just wont be a big component of what you do (provided you dont go for surgery of course)

 

[DrRob]

Ok, Here is my thought. Manual skills may be learned - and for some people it just takes longer. I took the Canadian DAT and scored an 11, 7, and finally a 15 on the soap carving and a 16 each time on the PAT.

I went to Marquette, and had a lot of difficulty with the lab courses and practically failed a practical in every course. For example - I still remember my operative grades on each of the 3 practicals 69, 75, 86. By sophmore year I was consistently getting B's. I never really went to other instructors for advice, but I did go to other classmates and upper classmates who I would watch. I did spend countless hours on the weekends in the preclinical lab practicing.

In the end I passed my clinical boards on the first attempt. I would not say that I have great hand skills now, but they are ok - and they are getting better everyday.

If you enjoy dental school I would see about redoing projects during your time off and having them checked by a faculty who genuinly wants to help you. I once had an instructor who said that my first occlusal amalgam on the maniquin was not clinically acceptable and left it at that - what an a$$. I also had an instructor who sat down and showed me a wax up technique that worked for me - now thats what you need. If your preclinic lab is open during weekends go in and practice and get feedback on your work.

 

[aphistis]

So my question for you, Rob, in light of the trouble you faced with hand skills, is this: despite the difficulty you faced in dental school with the manual components, what is your overall attitude toward dentistry as a profession? Do you love it? Are you ambivalent? Did your trouble in school end up leaving you pretty jaded? I frequently run into trouble in my lab work as well, and I'm wondering what kind of lasting impact it might have left on somebody else.

 

[sxr71]

Please keep in mind that I am not a current dental student and that I am just applying this year, so take this with a grain of salt.



My impression is that you did badly during the first time you took your practical and it caused you a mental "blocK" for lack of a better term. When I took OChem recently, I fell into this slump that was very hard to get out. I started with a C and then I got an even lower grade than that in OChem II. It took a really great professor when I retook OChem II and a complete rethinking of my approach to OChem give me my confidence back. That what I think it boils down to sometimes - confidence.

When you ask the question:


Do I have what it takes to be a competent dentist?

I don't even know you, but I know the answer is: YES.


Just take a deep breath and reflect on what went wrong during your past experiences with practicals. Write down what you think your mistakes were. If you feel comfortable, post them here to let your peers give you suggestions for improvement. Go back and systematically improve every aspect of your technique. Take things slowly and start at the very basics. I really think that if you modify your approach from the very beginning you will become one of the better students in practicals. Keep in mind that you will need to spend a lot more doing this, since you are revamping your entire approach to the task, but you will be rewarded and I wouldn't be surprised if you come out of this faster and better than your peers.

Other suggestions I can give you are (to do concurrently):

1. Sometimes you can find a really nice dentist you is retiring and who absolutely loves lab work (try to find one with military experience). I am shadowing a dentist currently who I feel really wants to teach me every lab procedure that he does, and he does everything since he loves doing the labwork. This depends on your finding such a dentist, but I've found that a lot of dentists really love to help people.

2. Find a hobby that you could really enjoy that involves manual dexterity. It could be anything from building little toy model cars or planes and painting them or even working with electronics (soldering stuff). You could even challenge yourself and build one of those ships in a bottle. Ask others for suggestions. Also remember a hobby is not a job, you must enjoy what you are doing.

3. I thought the suggestion that
Radioheadblue had was a good one. See a doctor about taking something for nervousness a few times, because that could be the predominant problem for you in the very short term.


I firmly believe that these sorts of short term problems with a subject or certain type of task are just due to a temporary loss of confidence. Don't try to gain your confidence back too fast - you know that everything will work out just fine if you take things slowly and start having more and more successes.

 

[DrRob]

Bill,

I wouldn't say I love dentistry - but I do like it. I am only in my second year of practice and I can see a huge learning curve occurring right now and that makes it more enjoyable. My feeling is that no one likes to struggle through things. However, I feel that for people like me I have to struggle through things before they become easier and more enjoyable. On the other hand, I had pretty low self confidence graduating from dental school - even after having passed boards. I think that it takes time to build that back.

I would say if you can do acceptable work, not perfect work, then you will be successful. 90% of success comes from what the px thinks of you.

Today, I had to do a couple of simple extractions on periodontally involved teeth on a gentlemen who was maybe in his mid fifties, but obviously nervous. The best part of the appointment was not that it took me 15 minutes to do everything, but the fact that he told me he trusted me. To me that is better than any techinically perfect dental tx.

 

[DrRob]

one more thing - don't worry about the nasty dental instructors that seem to just criticize everything. No lie, your work is probably better than theirs. Why else are they harassing you for barely minimum wage when they could be out in private practice.

On the other hand, there are some very good dental instructors and those are the ones who give constructive suggestions. Anyone who goes to marquette - Dr. Navratil and Calhamer were awesome.

 

[SMlLEYdoc]

Everyone learns at a different pace. Stop comparing yourself to others in the class.
I spent my first two years in pre-clinic comparing myself to the girl that sat next to me. She was a hygenist and assistant before entering dental school. She had spent 5 years of her life using her hands and gaining experience. But, I did much better in all of the didactic courses than her. You have to realize that everyone has different strengths. Eventually, everything evens out.

I was terrible in pre-clinic, but in the clinic I excelled. It is very different working with a typodont and waxing up teeth, than on a live person. The key is to stay positive and calm your nerves, (stay off the caffeine before practicals).

My advice is to keep at it. Find a faculty mentor or even a senior buddy. They can encourage you and help you progress.

good luck!

 

[Smilemaker100]

Dear stdent9972,

I was rather upset by the fact that dental instructors were DIScouraging as oppose to ENcouraging you. I somewhat agree with an earlier post which discusses the approach in dental schools as oppose to medical schools. Based on what I have heard through others, I am beginning to believe that medical schools go out on a limb to make sure all their students pass...as for dental school...that's another story...There are many clincians there that shouldn't be there because they hate teaching and don't have the patience to deal with those that are struggling...if anything - they give more attention to the stellar students of the faculty- according to my experience

I scored 28 on the Canadian DAT carving component ( one of the top scores in the country). To be honest with you, I had taken the Kaplan DAT preparatory course because I was hearing so many nightmare stories in regards to the carving test. I even knew of a few students that were more interested in dentistry but ended up going to medical school because they were terrified about the carving test and convinced themselves they would fail without really attempting to practice a bit ! I on the other hand, had my mind absolutely set on becoming a dentist and was ready to work hard at it . I started carving on cylindrical chalks and then eventually progressed to soaps. I wasn't very fast or precise at the beginning, but with three months of practicing like MAD, I picked up on my speed and accuracy. I must have carved about 200 chalks and soaps- I still have kept them all...I can't believe the stanima I had! All this to say, that when I started dental school, I wasn't one of the best but I practiced a lot. A few teachers told me that PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT and that eventually with time, all dentists are on the same playing field.

Don't let anyone discourage you- if you feel passionately about the profession you will spend as much time as required to perfect your skills. And another few words of advice...DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT YOUR OWN SELF!

I thought I would also share this little poem that I have posted above my desk...

A WINNER'S CREED

If you think you are beaten, you are;
If you think you dare not, you don't;
If you'd like to win, but think you can't,
It's almost a cinch you won't.

If you think you'll lose, you're lost,
For out in the world we find
Success begins with a person's faith;
It's all in the state of mind.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster hand;
They go to the one who trusts in God
And always thinks " I CAN".
-Author Unknown

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by SMlLEYdoc
Everyone learns at a different pace. Stop comparing yourself to others in the class.
I spent my first two years in pre-clinic comparing myself to the girl that sat next to me. She was a hygenist and assistant before entering dental school. She had spent 5 years of her life using her hands and gaining experience. But, I did much better in all of the didactic courses than her. You have to realize that everyone has different strengths. Eventually, everything evens out.

I was terrible in pre-clinic, but in the clinic I excelled. It is very different working with a typodont and waxing up teeth, than on a live person. The key is to stay positive and calm your nerves, (stay off the caffeine before practicals).

My advice is to keep at it. Find a faculty mentor or even a senior buddy. They can encourage you and help you progress.

good luck!

Priceless advice. With suggestions like this, you need to start bulking up your post count. 😀

 

[busupshot83]

Originally posted by aphistis
Priceless advice. With suggestions like this, you need to start bulking up your post count. 😀

I agree

 

[akaretchie]

Don't be despaired or worried about your technical skills. Practicing carving with wax can excel your learning curve. As you return to preclinical, don't be in the mindset of thinking of not performing well because it can be a major roadblock. Just run through your mind how you plan to execute the procedures. Before you know it, things will flow. One suggestion I have for you is to find people in your class that you can practice with during outside class hours who are keen in manual dexterity. As you do this, they can give you immediate feedback and assistance. In addition, you are more likely to perform well since the level of stress as your practice will be significantly less. The more you practice, it's likely that your precision and speed will significantly increase.

Don't give up, if you love this profession. There's a reason why you were accepted to dental school. They saw the potential in you. Just believe that you can do it and alter your mindset. Before you know it, it will become much easier for you the next time around. Take this time off to recuperate and energize from the year while at the same time constantly practice your skills. It'll eventually pay off. 🙂

 

[PERFECT3435]

how does one find out if his manual dexterity skills are enough for dental school?


i am starting dental school this fall and have no idea what i would face. i have a lot of confidence in myself and know that i can overcome difficukt situations. However, doing dental work is a bit different than building model cars that i do.

like critterbug, i hope there isn't an unpleasant surprise waiting for me at IU.

 

[DrRob]

akaretchie is right on!!!!!! Even 2 years into practice - I still have to remind myself not to have a negative mindset - even after I graduated and passed clinical boards. There's obviously someone who thinks I can do it why shouldn't I!

The fact is that dental school instructors don't know the damage they cause by negative comments. I did struggle with the technical aspects of dentistry ;however, didactics was no problem for me.
The best is to try to develop self - confidence right from the beginning by seeking instructors who are positive and willing to spend extra time with you!