Kieser's rph strike

[3boooda]

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Hi pharmacists
Did anybody hear about Kieser permenante pharmacists strike in south California. Recruiters start calling to hire temporary rphs for June. Is anybody get any calls yet or heard about that? They offer double pay.

 

[sosoo]

its canceled. bummer. all that for a pension? CVS pharmacists need to band together and strike to get more technician hours!!

 

[njac]

I was told $100/hr.

Linked in is full of recruiters looking for it.

I was told that the pharmacists were offered a 20% raise in lieu of pensions, and they opted to take the raise (hence why so many kaiser pharmacists make $80-100/hr with seniority) - and now they're panicking that their pensions are gone.

If this is truly the case, I'm not all that sympathetic. For a 20% raise, you've got plenty of money to save. That would be an additional $30K/yr for me... More than twice what I'm saving now via 403b...

 

[njac]

its canceled. bummer. all that for a pension? CVS pharmacists need to band together and strike to get more technician hours!!

The first one was canceled for negotiations, but now they're looking again for 2-3 weeks from now?

 

[Doc Hawaii]

Possibly June 2nd.

 

[BMBiology]

I was told $100/hr.

Linked in is full of recruiters looking for it.

I was told that the pharmacists were offered a 20% raise in lieu of pensions, and they opted to take the raise (hence why so many kaiser pharmacists make $80-100/hr with seniority) - and now they're panicking that their pensions are gone.

If this is truly the case, I'm not all that sympathetic. For a 20% raise, you've got plenty of money to save. That would be an additional $30K/yr for me... More than twice what I'm saving now via 403b...

Kaiser told the pharmacist union that they are getting rid of the pension system for all of their workers. Didn't happen. Only pharmacists' pension got terminated. Doesn't make much sense right? Why would a Kaiser nurse get a pension while a Kaiser pharmacist doesn't? They all work for the same company!

I think this is an important event for all pharmacists, regardless if you work for Kaiser or not.

 

[Momus]

Their pharmacists get 79/hr minimum per union and they are complaining.

 

[Momus]

Kaiser told the pharmacist union that they are getting rid of the pension system for all of their workers. Didn't happen. Only pharmacists' pension got terminated. Doesn't make much sense right? Why would a Kaiser nurse get a pension while a Kaiser pharmacist doesn't? They all work for the same company!

I think this is an important event for all pharmacists, regardless if you work for Kaiser or not.

Could be because pension ties to your salary; since Kaiser pays their rph minimum 160k/year. It means company contribution is so large also. It costs too much for the company, unsustainable and they want to end it.

 

[BMBiology]

Don't feel too bad for Kaiser. They made a record profit of $2.7 billion last year: http://m.bizjournals.com/sanfrancis...posts-27-billion-in-2013.html?page=all&r=full

Also don't feel too bad for CVS. Their CEO made 422x the salary of medium wage CVS worker. The greatest disparity between a company CEO and their workers among the top 100 gross companies: http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2014/05/15/cvs-ceo-worker/

While CVS is making a record profit they are cutting back tech and pharmacist hours. Their profit comes at your expense and at your health. They don't care about you so why should you care about them?

The bottom line is if Kaiser pharmacists can negotiate for better working condition, wages, benefits, why can't other pharmacists do the same thing?

 

[a runner]

http://guildforprofessionalpharmacists.com/

That's the union's website. It looks way different compared to a few years back. They have some news updates there but nothing since 10 days ago. They used to post the contracts that they would negotiate with Kaiser and CVS on their website along with all the pay and policy info, but it doesn't look like they do anymore.

 

[a runner]

Kaiser told the pharmacist union that they are getting rid of the pension system for all of their workers. Didn't happen. Only pharmacists' pension got terminated. Doesn't make much sense right? Why would a Kaiser nurse get a pension while a Kaiser pharmacist doesn't? They all work for the same company!

I think this is an important event for all pharmacists, regardless if you work for Kaiser or not.

So you want pharmacists to be compared to nurses? Pharmacists are professionals who go to professional school.

 

[BMBiology]

So you want pharmacists to be compared to nurses? Pharmacists are professionals who go to professional school.

Oh please, doctors would unionize too if they could. Ever had dinner wth doctors? Constant whining LOL

 

[BMBiology]

Kaiser RPh make a min of 160k?! Even in California that seems insane!

Take that with a grain of salt. They had agreed to drop the pension for a one time pay increase which was obviously a mistake.

 

[BMBiology]

What happened is that Kaiser started to hire more per diem pharmacists (no benefits) and packed their pharmacies with intern pharmacists. This obviously kept cost down.

 

[a runner]

Kaiser RPh make a min of 160k?! Even in California that seems insane!

California is just an anomaly because the pay for certain health care jobs at hospitals is held artificially high by various rules favoring unions, state laws mandating certain working conditions and nurse ratios, etc. That's why nurses at Kaiser start off at over $50/hr and can easily make over $60/hr after a few years, not to mention evening and night differentials and overtime pay.

I imagine the high pay of nurses at Kaiser benefits pharmacists because it would be easy to say "hey look that nurse is making $120k, why am I making only $5k more?"

 

[njac]

Possibly June 2nd.

I was told June 2-6 for interviews.

 

[Momus]

Take that with a grain of salt. They had agreed to drop the pension for a one time pay increase which was obviously a mistake.

Well, if it's true 20% raise, from 79/hr base right now, their pharmacists are now making $200k ($95/hr X 40h X 52 weeks), every single one of them. In the long term, the pension benefit will win out, but I can see why they say "OK, we gonna take the deal". Even if you don't get any pay raises for 10 years, getting +$35,000 raise NOW is no chump change.

 

[BMBiology]

Well, if it's true 20% raise, from 79/hr base right now, their pharmacists are now making $200k ($95/hr X 40h X 52 weeks), every single one of them. In the long term, the pension benefit will win out, but I can see why they say "OK, we gonna take the deal". Even if you don't get any pay raises for 10 years, getting +$35,000 raise NOW is no chump change.

Let me clarify they agreed to drop the pension for a pay raise 4 years ago. That is why their salary is high now and that is also why they are willing to take a pay cut to reinstate their pension.

 

[njac]

Let me clarify they agreed to drop the pension for a pay raise 4 years ago. That is why their salary is high now and that is also why they are willing to take a pay cut to reinstate their pension.

This was my understanding as well - the raise already occurred, which is why their pay is higher than market.

 

[Momus]

Ah, I see, now they are in negotiation to get pension back and take a pay cut instead... to reverse the deal they took before. Didn't know that. All I know their base was so high 75/hr like 2 years ago, now 79/hr.

 

[BMBiology]

35 k is a lot of money but when you take taxes into consideration, it is not as much as you think

28% federal tax + 9.3% California tax + 1.9% medicare tax = 39.2% (don't need to pay social security tax since they have already passed the limit)

So I can understand why they are fighting for the pension.

In addition, they need to pay union fee.

 

[Momus]

35 k is a lot of money but when you take taxes into consideration, it is not as much as you think

28% federal tax + 9.3% California tax + 1.9% medicare tax = 39.2% (don't need to pay social security tax since they have already passed the limit)

So I can understand why they are fighting for the pension.

In addition, they need to pay union fee.

No pharmacist pays that tax rate. My effective tax rate last year after all deduction was 17% fed, 6.3% CA.

If someone were to get $35,000 raises, it could easily change their lifestyle.

35k X 75% (100 - (17% + 6% + 2%)) = $26,000 take home = a lot of money

That's an extra $2500 a month or $83/day extra you can spend. You don't have to brown bag your meals, eat out three times a day everyday, buy Star Bucks 2 times a day, subscribe to all the cable Channels out there, buy the latest phone, get a really nice house/apt, and buy a great used car every year for that kind of money.

 

[a runner]

No pharmacist pays that tax rate. My effective tax rate last year after all deduction was 17% fed, 6.3% CA.

If someone were to get $35,000 raises, it could easily change their lifestyle.

35k X 75% (100 - (17% + 6% + 2%)) = $26,000 take home = a lot of money

That's an extra $2500 a month or $83/day extra you can spend. You don't have to brown bag your meals, eat out three times a day everyday, buy Star Bucks 2 times a day, subscribe to all the cable Channels out there, buy the latest phone, get a really nice house/apt, and buy a great used car every year for that kind of money.

That's not the effective rate BMBiology is quoting. That's the marginal rate, because when you are getting a pay raise, any extra money you earn is going to be taxed at the margin. So the 39% tax figure is accurate for that portion of the income in CA.

 

[Momus]

That's not the effective rate BMBiology is quoting. That's the marginal rate, because when you are getting a pay raise, any extra money you earn is going to be taxed at the margin. So the 39% tax figure is accurate for that portion of the income in CA.

Exactly the point, marginal is misleading. The reality is no one pays 39% on that additional $35,000 because your deduction will eat the top bracket first - most of 35,000 (reduce it from 39% to around 25%). Any pay raise you get will be - your deduction (401k, HSA, property tax, mortgage interest) = reducing your highest margin rate.

 

[BMBiology]

Exactly the point, marginal is misleading. The reality is no one pays 39% on that additional $35,000 because your deduction will eat the top bracket first - most of 35,000 (reduce it from 39% to around 25%). Any pay raise you get will be - your deduction (401k, HSA, property tax, mortgage interest) = reducing your highest margin rate.

I think you got it mixed up. You can't double dip on deductions. In addition the extra 35 k is not going to push you into a higher tax bracket.

Just calculate it online. Salary #1: 130 k and salary #2: 165 k. The difference in take home pay is not as much as you are calculating.

 

[a runner]

I think you got it mixed up. You can't double dip on deductions. In addition the extra 35 k is not going to push you into a higher tax bracket.

Just calculate it online. Salary #1: 130 k and salary #2: 165 k. The difference in take home pay is not as much as you are calculating.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

With a family of 4, married, one income, I get $117k after taxes on the $165 income vs. $95k after taxes on the $130k income for a difference of $22k on the $35k raise. That $13k in taxes is a big chunk.

I feel you on trading in the pension for a pay raise being a bad deal. The tax implications are enormous. Instead of getting pension income during retirement at a very low marginal tax rate, the extra income is being added at the highest income level of the pharmacist's career. The union should have never agreed to it, but once you concede something it's hard to get it back.

Although the ones it really benefits are those pharmacists who wouldn't work for Kaiser long enough to qualify for the pension anyways.

 

[MatCauthon]

Kaiser has many other benefits as well that contribute to the bottom line. I think Kaiser employees basically don't pay anything to get health and dental coverage. Even without the pension plan, the retirement plan at Kaiser is still better than just about everywhere else. I read the contract for Kaiser NW (it is searchable online) and it is very favorable. Kaiser NW effectively ended the pension plan for all new employees starting after 1/1/14. But all of the older employees are still covered.

Did they completely end the pension plan for California Kaiser employees, or does that just apply to new employees?

Also, I was going to say that nurses commonly get the best benefits at union hospitals. Nursing unions are very powerful-- that coupled with prior nursing shortages has ensured that nursing contracts have always been extremely favorable to nurses.

There are too few pharmacists to have the kind of impact that nurses do in terms of protesting, rallying, etc.
I remember I almost got a job at Kaiser last year and it fell through at the last minute. I was mad because I would have still been elgible for the pension plan.

 

[gwarm01]

If anyone at Kaiser is looking for a no good scab in Florida, call me up. I'd like to buy a new car.

 

[confettiflyer]

It might actually be cost effective for me to fly to so cal, work as a scab, then fly back afterwards.

Or I can just stay a day or two and get drinks with njac or something, hahaha.

 

[owlegrad]

Kieser may sign me up to be a scab also.

 

[confettiflyer]

Confirmed the deets with a recruiter:

Compensation:
Outpatient Pharmacist: $120 per hour
Inpatient Pharmacist: $150 per hour

· $90 per diem for days worked and travel days
· $500 guaranteed payment for confirming a position and completing credentialing if the work stoppage is cancelled
· All transportation costs paid for or reimbursed
· Free housing

We are looking for candidates with:
· Must have CA License
· Must have 1 year outpatient or inpatient experience

 

[metrarx]

Confirmed the deets with a recruiter:

Compensation:
Outpatient Pharmacist: $120 per hour
Inpatient Pharmacist: $150 per hour

· $90 per diem for days worked and travel days
· $500 guaranteed payment for confirming a position and completing credentialing if the work stoppage is cancelled
· All transportation costs paid for or reimbursed
· Free housing

We are looking for candidates with:
· Must have CA License
· Must have 1 year outpatient or inpatient experience

That is not bad. 3x pay plus all expenses paid. RPhs working 7on7off can make some easy money. How long do these strikes usually last at Kaiser?

 

[njac]

I'm going inpatient.

Maybe I'll see you scabs there.

 

[awval999]

Those rates are CRAZY. Would totally scab if I was in California.

 

[sosoo]

thats a lot of money n the pharmacists aren't satisfied? cvs only gives %5 401k matching which is about $6,000 a year. which is 4-5 times less than what these kaisers are getting.

 

[N974]

Anyone who is willing to scab in this situation needs an education on crossing picket lines. Airline pilots still carry around a book with scabs names in it from strikes 30 years ago, and routinely check it before giving someone a ride on their jumpseat. It's bad to cross your own picket line (ie Kaiser pharmacists going to work during the strike), its 5x as bad to cross somebody else's line. Not your business.

There is a reason why those scab rates are so high, and a cost to it as well. Pilots that scabbed for two weeks were blocked out of all major airlines forever. Even management wouldn't hire them because of the turmoil it would of created, not to mention most hiring boards have line pilots on them with equal veto power.

Kaisers pay rates are one of the reasons why the overall pharmacist pay in California and surrounding areas is so high. Anyone that scabs will be directly contributing to declining wages. I wouldn't touch that scab work with a ten foot pole.

As far as taxes, your last dollar you make IS taxed at the highest bracket you're in, so it is quite possible for someone in CA to be taxed at that rate, almost guaranteed if they are married, maybe even higher.

 

[BidingMyTime]

What N974 said. Crossing a union picket line, is like trying to get between 2 drunks in a bar just because someone bet you $100 to do it.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

No money is worth crossing them lines...., although this sure come close.

I hope the strike succeeds...

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

good luck!

I agree with N. Don't cross scab lines. It is not always about the almighty dollar sign... Making 60 dollars more a month for a couple of weeks wont make or break you.

These strikes set precedents. If there is ever a strike in CVS or any chains, they are going to study pharmacist strikes and realize that there isn't much to worry about.

 

[njac]

My mother just called me a republican for even considering it...

That name-calling alone might be the single biggest influence in my not doing this...

 

[a runner]

If the working conditions are so bad at Kaiser that they feel it is worth striking over, then there must be better jobs out there and they can find those jobs and never need to come back to Kaiser. If there aren't better jobs out there, then WHAT ARE THEY STRIKING OVER? Since, you know, they literally have the best pharmacist jobs in the entire world, other than sporadic exceptions.

It makes no sense... why strike with the best jobs? If you must strike, wouldn't it make more sense for the pharmacists with the worst jobs making $40's/hr to be the ones striking? Or retail jobs with terrible working conditions? This strike will fail because it is misplaced, and like Aznfarmerboi said, it will make legitimate strikes at places like CVS untenable in the future.

 

[zelman]

They need to strike because that's how unions establish that they have power and companies have to care about them in the slightest.

 

[a runner]

To call someone a "scab" in seriousness is quite judgmental and self-righteous. Some people are underemployed or unemployed and those few weeks or months can help someone to provide for their family. This is not the 1800's. It's easy when you have a great job like Kaiser to judge someone who does not and is taking advantage of an opportunity. This generation sees these things differently than the past few.

 

[a runner]

They need to strike because that's how unions establish that they have power and companies have to care about them in the slightest.

I suppose, but union power has been on the decline for a while now (even in CA) and that is not going to change with a strike. Besides, it's hard to garner sympathy with the public (and Kaiser patients) for a strike, which is an important aspect of striking, when they learn you are earning over 3x the median income and in the top 1-2% for your profession.

 

[N974]

"To call someone a "scab" in seriousness is quite judgmental and self-righteous. Some people are underemployed or unemployed and those few weeks or months can help someone to provide for their family. This generation sees these things differently than the past few."

It is an aggressive label, and while it may appear that people are judging others, it is simply a definition, regardless of the reason for crossing the line. If you do struck work, for any reason, you are by definition a scab.

"a : a contemptible person

b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike

I don't mean to turn this around, but claiming that individuals are being judgmental by labeling someone a scab, is judgmental in itself. It reinforces my earlier point of people needing to understand and be educated in union operations before running out and working struck work. Someone calling them a scab does not make them a scab, the worker making a conscience choice to take the struck work made them a scab, as unpleasant as that reality is.

As far as this "This generation sees these things differently than the past few", I agree with you 100% and would say this has been the leading reason behind the middle class erosion in wages and benefits. Study an average middle class income graph (not household income, individual income) and compare it against a union membership graph and you will see a significant correlation over the past 50 years.

 

[owlegrad]

Besides, it's hard to garner sympathy with the public (and Kaiser patients) for a strike, which is an important aspect of striking, when they learn you are earning over 3x the median income and in the top 1-2% for your profession.

This is very likely true. How did the writer's strike end up working out for them?

 

[confettiflyer]

When the grocery baggers went on strike in so cal back in ~2004, I came in as a broke college student and worked for $$$$. Crossed the picket line, not a big deal.

Anyway, been back and forth with the agency today. I'm now credentialed and ready to go for next week if necessary. I get a $500 bonus just for doing that. My days off next week coincide with the start of the strike, so it works out.

 

[pezdispenser]

So do you think you would be blacklisted from ever getting hired at Kaiser if you scabbed?...

 

[awval999]

So do you think you would be blacklisted from ever getting hired at Kaiser if you scabbed?...

Of course he will be.

 

[N974]

So do you think you would be blacklisted from ever getting hired at Kaiser if you scabbed?...

Almost certainly, and possibly other places too IF they were to find out. I'm not sure how small a world pharmacy is. This shouldn't be the deterrent however. The deterrent should be integrity, the golden rule, and doing what is right when nobody is watching. These striking pharmacists are putting their jobs on the line to secure wages and benefits that ALL pharmacists in CA are benefiting from. All theft isn't defined by laws. Interesting how he scabbed once, and is willing to do it again, apparently without much thought, all for some extra cash. I've known several scabs over my career and I have to say they all have several traits in common, I wouldn't trust any of them as far as I could spit, and their personal lives were always in chaos.