?Killer call?

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pathnew

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Any stories (true, that is) of killer call in Path?
I suppose autopsy could keep you busy but I doubt you'd be up all night hurrying to finish reports, right?
Since I'm a more 'mature' candidate, I'm a little shy of very rough call. But it seems most residencies have call 1 wk at a time, which leads me to think it's unlikely to include a huge amt of sleep deprivation. (I can fall asleep 5min after the phone call is over). I don't mind being nickeled and dimed to death all night, going in, or even all-nighters; I was just dissuaded from Rads/Surgery by witnessing the all-night urgency and pressure fog that enveloped them.
Just exploring my options.
Thanks.
 
pathnew said:
I suppose autopsy could keep you busy but I doubt you'd be up all night hurrying to finish reports, right?

Hahaha...that's what I thought. I have spent just about everynight (usually 1-2hrs) after a full day on surgicals this month working on autopsy ****. It doesn't help that I got driled with posts (11) on my first month of service, nor the fact that I had 4 in the last week alone. I spend most of my time trying to organize meeting times with attendings at a different campus than the one that I am stationed. Between ordering and waiting for special stains and trying to show cases around, this has been a trying month (coupled with a moderately busy month on surgicals and a 30-minute shuttle ride each way to/from the main campus). Three more cases to signout and I can enjoy my elective month in January.
 
Thanks ucsf,
Sounds like a busy rotation...nice to have the elective dangling carrot.
I've definitely heard of late-night grossing until 10pm and then having to preview yet until MN, things like that. But again, do you end up staying at the hospital past 10 often, or past midnite occasionally (not rarely)?
I know the grass is always greener, but trying to go in with my eyes wide open.
 
pathnew said:
Thanks ucsf,
Sounds like a busy rotation...nice to have the elective dangling carrot.
I've definitely heard of late-night grossing until 10pm and then having to preview yet until MN, things like that. But again, do you end up staying at the hospital past 10 often, or past midnite occasionally (not rarely)?
I know the grass is always greener, but trying to go in with my eyes wide open.

Our grossing typically stops at 7pm. One of our faculty members doesn't want the residents grossing after this time, mainly because the number of mistakes (and injuries) goes up. I am never at the hospital later than 9, usually previewing if I didnt get a chance to earlier in the day.
 
pathnew said:
Any stories (true, that is) of killer call in Path?
I suppose autopsy could keep you busy but I doubt you'd be up all night hurrying to finish reports, right?
Since I'm a more 'mature' candidate, I'm a little shy of very rough call. But it seems most residencies have call 1 wk at a time, which leads me to think it's unlikely to include a huge amt of sleep deprivation. (I can fall asleep 5min after the phone call is over). I don't mind being nickeled and dimed to death all night, going in, or even all-nighters; I was just dissuaded from Rads/Surgery by witnessing the all-night urgency and pressure fog that enveloped them.
Just exploring my options.
Thanks.
I've never had to pull off an all-nighter for pathology call. Here, we don't do calls for a week at a time.

For me so far, call has entailed weekend frozen section call, which hasn't been all that bad with respect to doing frozen sections. Instead, I will spend the weekend cutting in weekend specimens which hasn't been bad so far. But I have heard of stories from other residents who got "slammed" on weekend surgical pathology.

Other than that, we get assigned to weekend autopsy call. If we're "first up" for autopsy, that means we get the first two. If you're "second up" for autopsy on the weekend, you get the third. My worst call was autopsy call. It was the first Sunday I was on autopsy call and I got two autopsies that day. Ended up finishing the dissections around 7 pm. Since, we present autopsies at Gross Conference on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays at 8 am, that meant that I had to write up my Provisional Anatomic Diagnosis writeups (which basically entails describing gross findings and integrating them in addition to clinical information to assigning a provisional cause of death) that night. I ended up writing them in the luxury of my own office at home and finished them around 11 pm (since back then, it would take me forever to write one PAD). I got around 7 hours of sleep and had to present the next morning...and it was bad since with respect to a few gross findings, I got the two patients mixed up :laugh:

Since then, I've been pretty fortunate. The thing about pathology is that even though you may work long hours in a given day, your hours are quite regular. On surgical pathology, when I cut I usually finish by 6 pm since that is the deadline for getting all the sections submitted to the processor. Then I get dinner and unwind a bit, chat with a few other residents about how cutting sucks ass, and start previewing around 7 pm. I don't like to stay past 10 pm since eventually, I'll just say "f*ck it" and go home. There have been a few days when I do have to preview until midnight but that's mainly my own fault since in the evenings, I tend to be more distractable and hence, more inefficient. But if you stay on top of things, it should be Ay OK!

As for frozen section call, when we're on "elective" rotations (such as DermPath or Cytology) we do have a night of call where you are on frozen duty from 5 pm until 8 am the next day. Second years take more night call (but again, one maybe two days at most in a given week) since they do less weeks of surgicals and their schedules overall are more accomodating. So it's OK for the most part as things tend to be balanced here. Technically, during overnight frozen call, you could get called in on a frozen anytime at night but the surgeons will usually page us into the hospital during the night if the frozen section diagnosis will be pivotal for the next step of surgical management. And we get around an hour of advance notice if that happens since it takes a while for us to get into the hospital and for us to arrange for the attending to get his/her ass into the hospital. So, overall, it isn't that bad. It sure beats getting paged at the middle of the night because your patient's blood sugar went up or had a VTach episode. Path call can be a bitch sometimes but clinical overnight call is much less predictable than overnight path call.
 
Thanks for the detailed response...makes it less abstract to me.

The 'get the attending' in the hospital caught my eye. How long do residents have attendings come in for night frozens? Do you do them alone by your 3rd yr, or is it dependent on the surgery?
That is another turn-off with radiology also - you may have attending back-up at some places until 9pm if you are lucky (maybe all night in boston or other major ctrs), but often you are clueless and have to face the surgeons without feeling fully knowledgeable (I did some nite call with jr residents and it was scary).
 
pathnew said:
Thanks for the detailed response...makes it less abstract to me.

The 'get the attending' in the hospital caught my eye. How long do residents have attendings come in for night frozens? Do you do them alone by your 3rd yr, or is it dependent on the surgery?
That is another turn-off with radiology also - you may have attending back-up at some places until 9pm if you are lucky (maybe all night in boston or other major ctrs), but often you are clueless and have to face the surgeons without feeling fully knowledgeable (I did some nite call with jr residents and it was scary).
Well, when I first get called, I'm usually prepared. I have the OR schedule with me with relevant histories written down. Then when I'm on the phone with the surgeon or scrub nurse, I make sure I clarify what the exact question that is to be answered by the frozen and how this will be helpful in the next step in surgical management. Like I said, during the night, usually the surgeon understands that it will take a while for the resident and attending to get back to the hospital and they usually have a good reason for doing so. Therefore, this step is mainly a confirmatory step and the conversation is pretty brief. Then I call the attending to inform them of the situation.

It takes me about 15-30 minutes to get into the hospital but that's because I live relatively closeby. The attendings may live a bit farther out from the city so it takes them longer to get in.

It is rare for us to face the surgeons alone. I get in to receive the specimen, document some basic gross information and prepare the appropriate frozen section. The one time I got called in during the night, I had the slides all ready for the attending so all he had to do was go over the slides with me and then I called the surgeon with the diagnosis. It wasn't bad. After that, I looked at the current OR schedule to see if other procedures were going on. There was one other emergency surgery going on so I simply called that OR to see if they anticipated needing a frozen section. The surgeon said "no" so the attending and I simply went home after that one frozen. Simple as that.

BTW, I'm just a first year resident so I don't have all that much experience. 3rd year residents typicaly don't take frozen call here.
 
pathnew said:
Any stories (true, that is) of killer call in Path?
I suppose autopsy could keep you busy but I doubt you'd be up all night hurrying to finish reports, right?
Since I'm a more 'mature' candidate, I'm a little shy of very rough call. But it seems most residencies have call 1 wk at a time, which leads me to think it's unlikely to include a huge amt of sleep deprivation. (I can fall asleep 5min after the phone call is over). I don't mind being nickeled and dimed to death all night, going in, or even all-nighters; I was just dissuaded from Rads/Surgery by witnessing the all-night urgency and pressure fog that enveloped them.
Just exploring my options.
Thanks.

I think (at least part) of the appeal of pathology is that there is no such thing as "killer call".

I did Internal Medicine call for a year. I know what "killer call" is. I was on-call every forth night for a year (every third night on ICU--which is the very definition of "killer call"). I can say without hesitation that in all my years in pathology (now numbering 10 including residency and fellowship), pathology call is lame and easy. And thats a good thing.

Any time you can do call from home, you should be thankful. "Real" call (meaning having to endure routine all-nighters, dealing with very sick and needy patients, do ER admissions, and having virtually no support) is exceedingly tough. I can't accurately describe what its like to someone who hasn't done it. Student on-call experiences do not compare (its kind of like the difference of fighting in a war and watching a news account of a war on tv).

I don't mean to disparage pathology or those training in it. Its just that I have experienced both sides. If you have never done "real call", you should consider yourself very lucky.
 
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