Kind of Surprised and Shocked :(

[SyrianHero]

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Ever since I have decided to pursue medicine (a couple months ago) I have been very excited about finding my passion and finally figuring out what I want to do with the rest of my life, but whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve and I was a bit shocked by that. Some background on me: I am a computer science and Engineering student at OSU who will be graduating this upcoming spring and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT. It's just surprising that so many people would say that to me, and I wanted to see if any of you guys have went through this or have any advice? thanks a lot!

 

[ShenanigansMD]

I normally don't help Buckeyes, but considering you're computer science you're definitely a smart guy.

What's your science GPA?

 

[SyrianHero]

I have like a 2.9 sGPA but I still have atleast 25 credits of science (premed) classes to take

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Ever since I have decided to pursue medicine (a couple months ago) I have been very excited about finding my passion and finally figuring out what I want to do with the rest of my life, but whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve and I was a bit shocked by that. Some background on me: I am a computer science and Engineering student at OSU who will be graduating this upcoming spring and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT. It's just surprising that so many people would say that to me, and I wanted to see if any of you guys have went through this or have any advice? thanks a lot!

Unless you are the ridiculously photogenic syrian rebel, you will most likely need GPA repair via a postbacc, special master's program (SMP), or a traditional hard science research master's.

This should be your avatar:

 

[Wafflyw]

You should not allow others to tell you whether or not you can do something. If you feel that medicine intrigues you, captivates you, and is going to drive you to wake up every morning for the sake of your patients, then by all means, do it. If you really want it, you'll figure out how to get it. If you really have the desire, you will see a thousand opportunities, while the people around you see none.

Go through the post-bacc program and get a fresh start. Get some clinical experience and see what's out there.

You must keep pressing on and keep your newfound dream in mind. As you go through the path, fail. Fail a 100 times, fail a 1000 times, but don't give up! As Mr. Edison mentioned, "I didn’t fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps."


Good luck! 🙂

 

[ShenanigansMD]

Alright, say you have 25-30 science/math credits already, if you take 25-30 credits of science (post-bac, masters, whatever) and you get A's in all your classes, that brings your BCPM up to a 3.5 (or almost), which would bring up your overall GPA to maybe 3.2-3.3.

That isn't great, but it's definitely manageable since you're engineering and adcoms will see that. You don't need a 3.8 for every med school, but don't get your hopes up about top schools. Also, MCAT domination will definitely help you out.

Plus, most people have absolutely no idea how hard Computer Science is. I was a CS major for one semester and I switched (to another engineering major). All that coding totally sucks, and it's cool that you stuck with it. Don't listen to most people who say you're stupid because you have a 3.0 in CS at a pretty good school (although definitely not as cool as the one up north).

Good luck to you man, keep up with the necessary ECs and you'll get in somewhere.

Edit: Wafflyw has got it right.

 

[ShenanigansMD]

Unless you are the ridiculously photogenic syrian rebel, you will most likely need GPA repair via a postbacc, special master's program (SMP), or a traditional hard science research master's.

This should be your avatar: syrian dude with rpg

Lol, the guy has an Italy shirt so I'm not sure if this works

 

[SyrianHero]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yea I don't care which MD school I get into as long as it is in the US. I guess they were saying that because by the time I graduate I'm going to have around 175 credits so they were saying "no way you'll get in anyware even if you take additional classes and that SMPs won't even accept you." I guess the surprising part was that Med students and doctors would say that lol but you guys definitly give me hope 🙂

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Lol, the guy has an Italy shirt so I'm not sure if this works

I just noticed the Italy shirt for the first time too. The pic is from Syria though.

 

[SyrianHero]

Lol, the guy has an Italy shirt so I'm not sure if this works

He's still Syrian lol

 

[SyrianHero]

Anyone else have any opinions\comments?

 

[Richard Dawkins]

you should read the nontrad forums and do research on post-bacc and smp programs in your area. you have a huge uphill battle to fight; but your experience fighting assad is certainly a unique EC that adcoms will like to see. if you can topple assad's regime before you apply, i think you'll have a decent shot.

 

[ShenanigansMD]

you should read the nontrad forums and do research on post-bacc and smp programs in your area. you have a huge uphill battle to fight; but your experience fighting assad is certainly a unique EC that adcoms will like to see. if you can topple assad's regime before you apply, i think you'll have a decent shot.

Awesome comment, I've been checking the news for a year straight and the top headline always contains the phrase "SYRIA OMG!!!!!!"

I got the Syrian blood in me too, and I'm definitely proud of it. I hope this civil war ends soon.

 

[Doctor Strange]

It's going to be an uphill battle for a lot of MD schools (unless you're URM). Definitely try to fix the GPA with some postbac work. Look into DO schools.

And, just to play Devil's advocate, it's not all that "shocking" that people are telling you that you're not going to get into medical school. If you were to apply now with your current stats, your chances at getting in are definitely on the lower end of the scale.

 

[Yonko Shanks]

Ever since I have decided to pursue medicine (a couple months ago) I have been very excited about finding my passion and finally figuring out what I want to do with the rest of my life, but whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve and I was a bit shocked by that. Some background on me: I am a computer science and Engineering student at OSU who will be graduating this upcoming spring and my cGPA is 3.05 (hoping to raise it up to 3.1 by graduation). I was then going to finish my premed classes after graduation and take the MCAT. It's just surprising that so many people would say that to me, and I wanted to see if any of you guys have went through this or have any advice? thanks a lot!

Dude you can do it. I had a 2.7 my junior year and now I have a 3.4 because I busted my ass off for 2 years. Just do good on your premed classes ok, from now on nothing is acceptable unless an A+. If you force yourself to think like that you will go beyond what you need to know and it will do good come mcat.

 

[Dires]

Never say never... (Just beiber lol)...
You have an uphill battle. Get a 33+ MCAT for MD.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

It's going to be an uphill battle for a lot of MD schools (unless you're URM). Definitely try to fix the GPA with some postbac work. Look into DO schools.

And, just to play Devil's advocate, it's not all that "shocking" that people are telling you that you're not going to get into medical school. If you were to apply now with your current stats, your chances at getting in are definitely on the lower end of the scale.

Are Syrians considered minorities??? OP should look into that.

 

[SyrianHero]

No unfortunately Syrians aren't considered URMs lol

 

[CurlsandPearls]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yea I don't care which MD school I get into as long as it is in the US. I guess they were saying that because by the time I graduate I'm going to have around 175 credits so they were saying "no way you'll get in anyware even if you take additional classes and that SMPs won't even accept you." I guess the surprising part was that Med students and doctors would say that lol but you guys definitly give me hope 🙂

Wait, I'm not sure if I'm missing something... but is graduating with more than ~120 credits looked down upon during applications? Because I'm at 101 and I still have almost allllllllllllll of my science pre-reqs to go (plus probably some more upper level science courses). So by the time I finish all of that I won't be surprised if I have around 150-175 undergraduate credit hours.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Wait, I'm not sure if I'm missing something... but is graduating with more than ~120 credits looked down upon during applications? Because I'm at 101 and I still have almost allllllllllllll of my science pre-reqs to go (plus probably some more upper level science courses). So by the time I finish all of that I won't be surprised if I have around 150-175 undergraduate credit hours.

I think the implication here is that the GPA won't change as drastically due to the large number of credits already accrued.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I think the implication here is that the GPA won't change as drastically due to the large number of credits already accrued.

+1. OP rock the mcat and try to get into a postbac or smp. Look into DO schools if you score x>27. You might be limited some by going the DO route but you are still a practicing physician. DO schools will also allow you to do grade replacement so you could bring your GPA up substantially if you retake a few classes. Just food for thought.

 

[SyrianHero]

So do most of you guys think MD is out of reach and my only option is DO even if I do good on MCAT (>= 32)?

 

[meix]

I've had almost the same thing told to me by someone who worked with admissions... but I've got an interview right now (which is really, really cool because it's so early in the cycle, and I wasn't expecting to get ANY interviews - no rejections yet from the 20+ schools I applied to aside from Mayo -knock on wood-).

You can definitely do it. Do well - ACE - your prereqs, then go on and ace the MCAT. If you get a 36+ that'll really bump up your chances of getting into MD, because it'd show that you are totally smart enough, that your GPA doesn't tell the whole story. IMO anyways.

Don't ever, EVER let naysayers get to you. I made that mistake once, and it almost cost me my dreams. You can do it as long as you want it badly enough and are willing to work hard enough to overcome whatever obstacles you have right now. Put a positive spin on anything that adcoms could see as a problem (but don't lie!), focus on how you've improved and what you've learned from any hardships you had to work through. And if you have to wait an extra year to apply because you want/need to do an SMP, don't sweat it. One year is nothing in the long run.

Oh but on top of the academics, be sure you do all the extracurriculars (the unspoken requirements, really) that most med schools are looking for (plus they serve to solidify/support your aspirations) - clinical volunteering, shadowing, non-clinical community service, etc. Dabble in some research if you're interested, although most premeds have had some degree of research experience so if you CAN it'd be a good idea to try it out (then you have more to back you up when you say you're not interested in research).

Good luck. I wish you the best! And you're welcome to PM me about anything anytime =)

Edit: and yeah, don't completely rule out DO, either.. apply to a few as backup, at least, when the time comes.

 

[Dires]

So do most of you guys think MD is out of reach and my only option is DO even if I do good on MCAT (>= 32)?

If you are above a 3.0 it's never really "out of reach". It's a lot of luck man. Go check out the graph in one of the stickied threads in "what are my chances".

 

[tiedyeddog]

Anyone else have any opinions\comments?

Hey, OSU undergrad alumni here, good to see Buckeyes on here. 🙂

You have a very uphill climb to get into a U.S. M.D. school. With a 3.0-3.1 GPA it's going to be very, very difficult.

Things working in your favor:
1. You are likely a resident of Ohio. Ohio has tons of M.D. schools and a good D.O. school.
2. You haven't taken any of your science prereqs, yet.
3. Haven't taken MCAT.

My advice to you is this:
1. Strongly consider D.O. schools. They do grade replacement while M.D. schools don't. If you retake any D's or C's it will drastically help your GPA.
2. Do really well on the MCAT, aim for 35+.
3. Look into SMP's. This might be your best option.
4. ACE your prereqs. Get an A in every single one, don't **** around here.

Good luck, go bucks!

 

[tiedyeddog]

So do most of you guys think MD is out of reach and my only option is DO even if I do good on MCAT (>= 32)?

It's a longshot but I don't think it's impossible, especially if you live in Ohio.

 

[SyrianHero]

So you think I could get accepted to a SMP (cinci, toledo, georgetown) despite low GPA? I mention those because they're reliable in the sense that if you do well then you'll most likely land a position in a med school somewhere

 

[CurlsandPearls]

I think the implication here is that the GPA won't change as drastically due to the large number of credits already accrued.

Ahhh, gotcha! Thanks!

I definitely know how difficult it is to get your GPA up after hitting a low point 🙁 took 2 semesters to move up .1 point. But it's totally doable.

 

[Praefectus]

As Mr. Edison mentioned, "I didn’t fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps."

Edison wasn't an inventor. He simply improved on other people's inventions and rushed to the patent office.

 

[Bangersandmash]

I think you should really focus on the civil war in your country before worrying about applying to medical school. You might be dead before you even get the chance to apply.

 

[SyrianHero]

I'm in the USA... Lol

 

[mehc012]

Edison wasn't an inventor. He simply improved on other people's inventions and rushed to the patent office.

Right.
Steps 1-997 were: watch other inventors make lightbulbs
Step 998: Take lightbulb to patent office
Step 999: Become proponent of DC power grid system
Step 1000: Electrocute pets to demonstrate the dangers of AC power asking Edison to housesit

1000 steps!

Still a good quote, though!

 

[Chir0nex]

While in your case you have a chance assuming you can repair your GPA and dominate MCAT, there certainly are people where is is just not practical for them to pursue medicine. I have found that in college very few people will actually tell you the truth about your life plans. Only one professor ever asked me what my grades were like when he learned about my being pre-med, everyone else just basically assumed I had the skills for it. The only thing worse than not achieving your dream job, is not achieving your dream job and having wasted your 20's on classes and preparation that was entirely pointless.

 

[CurlsandPearls]

While in your case you have a chance assuming you can repair your GPA and dominate MCAT, there certainly are people where is is just not practical for them to pursue medicine. I have found that in college very few people will actually tell you the truth about your life plans. Only one professor ever asked me what my grades were like when he learned about my being pre-med, everyone else just basically assumed I had the skills for it. The only thing worse than not achieving your dream job, is not achieving your dream job and having wasted your 20's on classes and preparation that was entirely pointless.

😱 How does a person know if they are wasting their time? At what point will you know that there is nothing else you can do for your GPA, MCAT, etc? After trying a post bacc? After taking the MCAT a few times? Like the OP, I feel like there are many people telling me I can't or that I shouldn't but then there are just as many people supporting and encouraging me. It's a confusing time.

 

[bigloley]

I had a 2.9 gpa when I decided to do medicine - i was over 100 credits in. Took me 3 years to get a 3.2, i did a smp, did well on my mcat and now im in a US MD school. it took a long time and it was hard as hell, but if you want it enough it will happen. Just remember there are no guarantees at all

 

[pfaction]

whenever I talk to students in medical schools and some of my friends who include some doctors they keep telling me that I can't do it and there is no way any medical school would accept me given my grades even if I improve

Your only option is to get into med school now, and prove them wrong.

 

[pfaction]

😱 How does a person know if they are wasting their time? At what point will you know that there is nothing else you can do for your GPA, MCAT, etc? After trying a post bacc? After taking the MCAT a few times? Like the OP, I feel like there are many people telling me I can't or that I shouldn't but then there are just as many people supporting and encouraging me. It's a confusing time.

Three application cycles with no acceptances.

Literally, that's when some schools say that you can't apply there anymore.

 

[CurlsandPearls]

I had a 2.9 gpa when I decided to do medicine - i was over 100 credits in. Took me 3 years to get a 3.2, i did a smp, did well on my mcat and now im in a US MD school. it took a long time and it was hard as hell, but if you want it enough it will happen. Just remember there are no guarantees at all

I'm in that situation right now, 2.9/101 credits, just started taking the science prereqs. Good to know that there are people who are in med school who started out in a similar situation that I'm currently in.

 

[CurlsandPearls]

Three application cycles with no acceptances.

Literally, that's when some schools say that you can't apply there anymore.

Three application cycles?!?! 😱😱😱
What would someone have to do in order to not get accepted anywhere three times?! That is crazy! See, I'm so scared that something like that might happen to me.

In case y'all couldn't tell, today is one of my anxious days this happens about once or twice a week, lol. Tomorrow I'll be all confident and happy, the next day I'll be stressed, the day after I'll be anxious all over again.

 

[SyrianHero]

Three application cycles with no acceptances.

Literally, that's when some schools say that you can't apply there anymore.

There is a thread on sdn by someone who got in on his fifth try. Never say never I guess lol

 

[STAT EKG]

.

 

[Law2Doc]

...! As Mr. Edison mentioned, "I didn't fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps."...! 🙂

especially if one of the steps is corporate espionage and theft. Edison didn't invent the light bulb. It was invented a few years earlier by Joseph Swan, of England. After seeing Swan's presentation at a scientific exhibit, and presumably spying on him, Edison "independently" invented one a few years later. Except that Edison used bamboo as a filament and it didn't really work compared to Swan's cellulose filament. So Edison's company ultimately just gave up and bought Swan's company. Not sure how Edison ever got public credit for inventing something that was already invented, but he did. So I'm not sure this is a good analogy. 😉


Kind of makes you wonder whether even your quote is from Edison or whether he just swiped it.

 

[mouthwash4hobo]

I'm in that situation right now, 2.9/101 credits, just started taking the science prereqs. Good to know that there are people who are in med school who started out in a similar situation that I'm currently in.

Also In this situation, although another downside is the number of withdrawals I've taken over the years. I'm working on a second bachelor's degree to hopefully raise to a 3.3.

 

[b05010445]

So you think I could get accepted to a SMP (cinci, toledo, georgetown) despite low GPA? I mention those because they're reliable in the sense that if you do well then you'll most likely land a position in a med school somewhere

I am in an SMP (BUMAMS), If you apply broadly to the SMPs I think you could get in somewhere esp since you're a career changer and most certainly if you manage a 32 on your MCAT before you apply.

 

[Wafflyw]

especially if one of the steps is corporate espionage and theft. Edison didn't invent the light bulb. It was invented a few years earlier by Joseph Swan, of England. After seeing Swan's presentation at a scientific exhibit, and presumably spying on him, Edison "independently" invented one a few years later. Except that Edison used bamboo as a filament and it didn't really work compared to Swan's cellulose filament. So Edison's company ultimately just gave up and bought Swan's company. Not sure how Edison ever got public credit for inventing something that was already invented, but he did. So I'm not sure this is a good analogy. 😉


Kind of makes you wonder whether even your quote is from Edison or whether he just swiped it.

Now I know! 😀

 

[SpecterGT260]

You should not allow others to tell you whether or not you can do something. If you feel that medicine intrigues you, captivates you, and is going to drive you to wake up every morning for the sake of your patients, then by all means, do it. If you really want it, you'll figure out how to get it. If you really have the desire, you will see a thousand opportunities, while the people around you see none.

Go through the post-bacc program and get a fresh start. Get some clinical experience and see what's out there.

You must keep pressing on and keep your newfound dream in mind. As you go through the path, fail. Fail a 100 times, fail a 1000 times, but don't give up! As Mr. Edison mentioned, "I didn’t fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps."


Good luck! 🙂

This irrational "can-do" attitude simply will not benefit the OP. The OP's issue is GPA. His is low enough that the caribbean is likely his only option. I did not sense the need for a pep talk in his post, nor do I think the kind words of some nameless, faceless, nobody on the other end of the internet is going to be the fulcrum upon which he turns his life around.

The simple fact of the matter is that the chances dwindle as his GPA goes down. There is a slight chance that a post bacc program could help out here - but I honestly doubt it. The upward trend in competitiveness in medical schools doesn't appear to be slowing so the opportunities for people to get in based on compassion and the "will to help" are fading. This is honestly the time for the OP to either reassess life goals or develop a hard strategy - not the time for some hazy "aint gunna let the man keep me down" sort of approach. I don't think anyone has actually gotten into medicine that way

 

[SpecterGT260]

There is a thread on sdn by someone who got in on his fifth try. Never say never I guess lol

Some schools do not have this rule. Some do. This, again, isnt about willpower or overcoming odds in some Lifetime original movie. A good many schools have a 3 attempt rule at which point they will not even accept your application (some have more, some have less).

Just keep that in mind. Don't spam adcoms with an application you are not confident in. If you really want this, you may need to go spend some time doing something else with your life until you are in a position to really start over. We have some people in our class that are older and have children - so it is done. Remember, anything you submit in an application can very well be permanent

 

[CurlsandPearls]

This irrational "can-do" attitude simply will not benefit the OP. The OP's issue is GPA. His is low enough that the caribbean is likely his only option. I did not sense the need for a pep talk in his post, nor do I think the kind words of some nameless, faceless, nobody on the other end of the internet is going to be the fulcrum upon which he turns his life around.

The simple fact of the matter is that the chances dwindle as his GPA goes down. There is a slight chance that a post bacc program could help out here - but I honestly doubt it. The upward trend in competitiveness in medical schools doesn't appear to be slowing so the opportunities for people to get in based on compassion and the "will to help" are fading. This is honestly the time for the OP to either reassess life goals or develop a hard strategy - not the time for some hazy "aint gunna let the man keep me down" sort of approach. I don't think anyone has actually gotten into medicine that way

What kind of hard strategy do you advise for someone who has an "underdog" GPA? What would your next steps be (other than just getting good grades in science classes) if you were in a similar situation?

 

[SpecterGT260]

What kind of hard strategy do you advise for someone who has an "underdog" GPA? What would your next steps be (other than just getting good grades in science classes) if you were in a similar situation?

I dont know how much a postbacc is going to really help someone with a 2.8-3.1 with only a few semesters to go. That is just very low - low enough that many schools will just auto-screen, and those who don't will find themselves wondering "why should I let this person in when I have a stack of applicants with 3.7+ GPAs sitting right here? It could..... it would probably have a higher yield if the OP is open to DO programs.

I would say a masters or PhD program is a better bet. We have PhD students in our class as well - a medical student body is pretty diverse, actually. Legitimately pursue another degree (one that has job or career opportunities in case you need to put this dream on the back burner for a few years) rather than simply tacking on more classes. From what I understand, schools will look at graduate work separately from UG work, so while that number remains low, a top to bottom PhD or Masters (w/ thesis would be better) with a 3.8 or so will go a long ways. An extra semester or two of post bacc work won't go a very long ways towards fixing the problem (also because from what I understand, this gets lumped together with UG GPA.... but different schools may treat this differently)

 

[docelh]

There is a thread on sdn by someone who got in on his fifth try. Never say never I guess lol

I posted in that one, so I guess I'll do so here.

Good luck. Just do a careful cost-benefit analysis. We're talking years of invested time in GPA repair, MCAT study, and EC requirements. You may change your mind when you decide you'd rather have a girlfriend or do something else. That's okay too.

I'm near the end of the end of my pre-med experience. I did it in two years -- clean. Grades are great, MCAT is on target, and EC's to boot. Despite this "clean run" with no complications, I found the experience taxing, grinding, and very unbearable at times.

So your experience is gonna more arduous because you have to make up for the disadvantages you have. SDN is here for you. 😀