Kind of Surprised and Shocked :(

[mehc012]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I dont know how much a postbacc is going to really help someone with a 2.8-3.1 with only a few semesters to go. That is just very low - low enough that many schools will just auto-screen, and those who don't will find themselves wondering "why should I let this person in when I have a stack of applicants with 3.7+ GPAs sitting right here? It could..... it would probably have a higher yield if the OP is open to DO programs.

I would say a masters or PhD program is a better bet. We have PhD students in our class as well - a medical student body is pretty diverse, actually. Legitimately pursue another degree (one that has job or career opportunities in case you need to put this dream on the back burner for a few years) rather than simply tacking on more classes. From what I understand, schools will look at graduate work separately from UG work, so while that number remains low, a top to bottom PhD or Masters (w/ thesis would be better) with a 3.8 or so will go a long ways. An extra semester or two of post bacc work won't go a very long ways towards fixing the problem (also because from what I understand, this gets lumped together with UG GPA.... but different schools may treat this differently)

I would definitely not advise a Ph.D as a path to med school. Do a Ph.D if you want a job in research. It becomes your life, and it's not just a few years that you set aside as a stepping stone to med school.

Besides, postbacc work helps boost your uGPA until it is past the auto-screening threshold. The lower your GPA, the more work you need, simple as that...yes, it may take years to have even a low-but-viable GPA. However, in those years you a) show an upward trend b)demonstrate that you can take on a full load (classes + work, full classes, formal SMP, what have you) and c) give yourself extra time to make your ECs outstanding so that once you make it through the auto-screening, they have a reason to look twice despite your lower-end GPA.

So, no...an extra semester or two won't net you much. However, an extra few years can boost your GPA quite a bit, and without dedicating to a long-term Ph.D or master's program. Ph.Ds in science are a 5+year ordeal and don't involve much coursework anyway...think of how many other things you could do in 5+ years to improve your GPA and app!

 

[hopeful22213]

Three application cycles with no acceptances.

Literally, that's when some schools say that you can't apply there anymore.

I know a girl who is just beginning as an M-1 after getting accepted on her 4th try...

 

[SpecterGT260]

I would definitely not advise a Ph.D as a path to med school. Do a Ph.D if you want a job in research. It becomes your life, and it's not just a few years that you set aside as a stepping stone to med school.

Besides, postbacc work helps boost your uGPA until it is past the auto-screening threshold. The lower your GPA, the more work you need, simple as that...yes, it may take years to have even a low-but-viable GPA. However, in those years you a) show an upward trend b)demonstrate that you can take on a full load (classes + work, full classes, formal SMP, what have you) and c) give yourself extra time to make your ECs outstanding so that once you make it through the auto-screening, they have a reason to look twice despite your lower-end GPA.

So, no...an extra semester or two won't net you much. However, an extra few years can boost your GPA quite a bit, and without dedicating to a long-term Ph.D or master's program. Ph.Ds in science are a 5+year ordeal and don't involve much coursework anyway...think of how many other things you could do in 5+ years to improve your GPA and app!

had that been what I suggested..... 🙄
What I said was "pursue a meaningful degree". A masters or PhD will open new doors, and the GPA will be calculated separate. So if you have 100 hours at a cGPA of 2.5, it will take you literally just as long to pull that up to a 3.8 as it would to complete an entire PhD (not that this is advisable, but an additional 300 hours at a 4.0 (or roughly the # of hours in 2.5 additional complete UG experiences) will only net a 3.625. However, as I stated in that post, at my school (and others) graduate GPA is calculated separately. Postbacc is not - it is lumped in with UG. It may be a higher yield plan to pursue another degree. There are non-bench PhDs if you are interested which can get you out in 4 years. You could do a combined MPH/MA in applied sciences. Whatever. The point is, it is ridiculously difficult to recover a low GPA.

Here is the other thing - say it doesnt work out. What do you plan to do with your fancy postbacc education? The work is entirely meaningless unless you get into medical school. Graduate level work will 1) provide you with a new and separate GPA for adcoms to look at 2) give you a skillset to support yourself if medicine doesnt work out or at least 3) allow you to pursue other things and revisit medicine at another time in your life.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I know a girl who is just beginning as an M-1 after getting accepted on her 4th try...

you didnt read his post or the other ones concerning it.


"literally some schools"

Some schools do not have this rule, however a good many do have a rule capping attempts. At this point, your application will automatically get thrown own if you apply again. It is the responsibility of the applicant to figure out which schools do what in terms of allowing reapplications. There is no "seabiscuit" underdog story here and the anecdotes prove nothing.

pfaction's comment was literally 100% accurate. Any complaints on the comment demonstrate only that one either didn't read or doesn't understand how this works but seriously, medicine isnt "The Little Train That Could" IRL....

 

[QuesoAndFromage]

Just to make sure-- are you counting computer science and engineering classes under your science gpa? Because AMCAS doesnt count them as such

 

[SyrianHero]

Well unfortunately I have to count the calculus and physics classes of engineering as science GPA which brings my science GPA down a bit.

 

[Hemorrage]

Well unfortunately I have to count the calculus and physics classes of engineering as science GPA which brings my science GPA down a bit.

look man don't worry so much, your not the first and only person in this situation. Your major is a difficult one and many schools will know that. If you want to go M.D i would advise the following

1. Complete a strong SMP or post-bacc program such as BU MAMS, Georgetown's SMP, or Tulane's ACP

2. Do really well on the mcat (32-33+)

If you do the above 2, schools will know your not an idiot and your undergrad GPA doesn't tell the whole story. Additionally, most of the programs i listed above historically have acceptance rates of 70-80%+ into an american medical school

 

[SyrianHero]

I feel like if I'm able to get into an SMP where I can take medical school classes then I can prove that I can do well in those classes which will give me a good chance at a few MD schools, but the problem is how would I be able to get into those competitive SMPs like Cincinnati and Georgetown?

 

[Hemorrage]

I feel like if I'm able to get into an SMP where I can take medical school classes then I can prove that I can do well in those classes which will give me a good chance at a few MD schools, but the problem is how would I be able to get into those competitive SMPs like Cincinnati and Georgetown?

Most of those applicants get in with GPA's similar to yours. R would recommend at least a 3.0 before applying to SMP's but if you take the MCAT and apply with your current GPA you can most likely get in (granted you do well on the MCAT)

 

[mehc012]

had that been what I suggested..... 🙄
What I said was "pursue a meaningful degree".

Fair enough...I apologize for misstating your intent. However, I feel that if someone were in the right place to do a Ph.D, they would already be intending to pursue one, not med school. At the very least, they'd be gunning for a combined program, because I honestly feel you should not pursue a Ph.D unless that is the primary thing you can see yourself doing with your life.

The point is, it is ridiculously difficult to recover a low GPA.

I completely agree...I even stated this in mypost! Where we differ is that I think improving your uGPA helps you more than establishing a gGPA. Most of the low GPA and nontrad threads conclude that a good gGPA doesn't do much for your app, while an improved uGPA with an upward trend and a demonstration that you're now ready to achieve at a higher level than previously is much more important.

Here is the other thing - say it doesnt work out. What are you going to do with your fancy postbacc education?

The advantage of the postbacc is that it doesn't necessarily require you to leave your current career or lose ground there. If it doesn't work out, you're where you were before you decided to go for med school again...only your uGPA is higher, so if you eventually choose to revisit the idea, you've gained.

If you've gone the Ph.D route you've derailed your current career, spent a few years at crazy low salary, and completely changed the focus of your life. You don't just 'do a Ph.D on the side'. With a traditional Ph.D, you don't even know how long it's going to take! As for a non-bench Ph.D...good luck getting any sort of research job ever with that.

Anyway, the underlying issue here is that you think grad GPA is a big factor, and I don't. The rest of this discussion is insignificant compared to that one point of contention.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I was told by an adcom that gGPA would carry more weight than a few As swimming in an ocean of Cs
This won't necessarily be universally true, and I indicated that in my previous post. The point here is: this "my opinion vs your opinion" talk is irrelevant as my post was a regurgitation of advice I was given by a school administrator.

 

[ES2]

I think it depends on how quickly you want to get into medical school. To get into an MD it might take you an extra year or two with post bacc classes. With D.O., you're more likely to get accepted right away and start your medical career. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you have an MD or DO. Look into DO schools, they have some really nice campuses.

 

[Hemorrage]

I think it depends on how quickly you want to get into medical school. To get into an MD it might take you an extra year or two with post bacc classes. With D.O., you're more likely to get accepted right away and start your medical career. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you have an MD or DO. Look into DO schools, they have some really nice campuses.

This is a very important aspect

In all seriousness OP, doing a PhD or Masters (Non-SMP) is useless unless they specifically state in the program that the intent of the program is to make you more competitive for medical school.

Depending on what route you want to take (D.O or M.D) you have different options. D.O schools have grade-replacement policies which will quickly reinflate your GPA if your willing to retake your C's (math classes etc), additionally the GPA and MCAT scores for D.O school's aren't as high as M.D schools so this all equates to a shorter and faster path into medical school. The downside is that most doors will be open to you as a D.O graduate through either the AOA match or the NRMP (harder) but notice i said "most". Some specialties are just simply hard to get into as a D.O. If you don't care about doing anything extremely competitive just go D.O and save your money/heartache. You'll be ready in 1-2 years.

If you want an M.D you will most likely need to do a small post-bacc to bring your GPA up to par with other SMP applicants (3.0-3.2 range) and then do the SMP (can take up to 2 years). While doing this work on your EC's, research, etc. Finally take the MCAT and do well (32-33+ remember you need to compensate for your low uGrad GPA).

If your in a rush, go D.O, if not go M.D

 

[pasiley]

I am going to be honest with you. Your have a shot but realize that it will be very difficult and could take a lot of time. I wish schools took into account things like difficult majors but many do not. I suggest you get a job in your field and take courses to repair your GPA. You have a hard and challenging major so studying for the MCAT and getting a good score is very likely (Aim very high, 35+). I say go for it but get a job in your field and experience, you will need the money to pay for that expensive post bacc+ SMP. This way, you will have good career in case things don't work out. The last thing you want is no career and $50,000+ in debt from your post-bacc and SMP.

 

[Cynicalbrit]

As has been said previously, you are going to have a very hard time with that sort of GPA. I recommend getting a copy of the MSAR; it has some very handy graphs, one of which plots GPA vs acceptance rate.

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/

 

[SpecterGT260]

If you're in a rush, go D.O, if not go M.D

👍

 

[Palam]

Telling people you want to go into medicine pretty much guarantees you'll get a whole lot of advice or feedback but the majority of it won't be very accurate. A lot of people would ask me what my GPA was (including doctors) right after I told them about my aspirations and after I told them they'd say "oh you're ok!" as if GPA means everything. Meanwhile it's a good MCAT and extracurriculars that are the tough part.

You should absolutely ensure you strive to nail all of your premed requirements and don't worry because you can with some perseverance. Then go from there. I see no reason to be disheartened but to be motivated instead.

 

[SyrianHero]

This is great advice from both sides of the spectrum. Please keep it coming.

 

[STAT EKG]

Time is another thing that can definitely work in your favor; the only problem with that is time takes time.

You could maybe - barely by the skin of your teeth - get in soon, or you could take a longer view on this... and you might have to anyway. The further away from those mediocre grades you are, the less they'll impact you. Heck, at a point the grades stop mattering (I think that's like 10 years though - and I could be wrong about that).

 

[box8psych]

I did not have a chance to read all of the replies, so I am sorry if someone already mentioned this. You are by no means in a hopeless situation. If you have taken none or very few science prerequisites, your best bet would be to go to a post-baccalaureate program and get a solid (3.6+) GPA. This would show that you are serious about becoming a doctor and your abilities outstrip your somewhat (but not terribly) low cGPA. This program will also help with achieving the solid MCAT score. I just finished my Post-Bac at Scripps and am studying for the MCAT, so feel free to PM if you have any questions! Oh, and don't let anyone tell you that you cannot pursue your passion. If you truly want to dedicate your life to medicine, you will make it happen.