Kkr to file chapter 11 for Envison (for real this time)

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aneftp

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May 9 2023 article at 4pm


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Know it’s coming. But it’s the end. But the real truth is kkr didn’t lose a penny on their investment. They made 3 billion dollar profit from 2018,2019,2020. Only since 2021 has their profit margin gone down to 250 million. They are like deadbeat homeowners making interest only payments and collecting rents and making profits till the profits stopped.


Envision Healthcare is planning to file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, according to people familiar with the matter, capping one of the biggest losses ever for the physician-staffing company’s backers at private-equity firm KKR KKR -0.61%decrease; red down pointing triangle.

The bankruptcy filing, which could be made as soon as this weekend, will wipe out the investment of KKR, which took Envision private in a $5.5 billion buyout in 2018. Including debt, the deal was worth about $10 billion, making it one of KKR’s largest investments in the healthcare industry”

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Oof...
"The failure of Envision illustrates the risks of layering debt onto a business in a rapidly changing industry. The company went from generating more than $1 billion in earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization in the year ended September 2020 to less than $250 million two years later, according to people familiar with the matter.

Health-care providers have long used the threat of going out of network as a tool to help them combat the market power of insurers. Insurers fear out-of-network providers will send patients unexpected—sometimes large—bills hoping they will complain to their employers, who in turn will push insurers to accept the reimbursement rates the providers seek.

It is a practice the staffing companies acknowledge, but one that has come under intense scrutiny in recent years.

The spotlight has been particularly intense on Envision ever since Mr. Cooper and his Yale colleagues found in a 2017 study that the company had been leading the industry in driving out-of-network bills higher at hospitals it entered. The study also was critical of TeamHealth’s behavior with regard to out-of-network billing.

Emergency services, regardless of where they are provided, would have to be billed at lower, in-network rates without requirements for prior authorization.

The rule also bans higher out-of-network cost-sharing, such as copayments, from patients for treatment they receive either in an emergency or nonemergency situation. Under the rule, any coinsurance or deductible can’t be higher than if such services were provided by an in-network doctor.

The interim final rule also stipulates that patients can’t be charged out-of-network for “ancillary” care, which can happen when an out-of-network anesthesiologist or assistant surgeon provides treatment at an in-network hospital.

Envision last year raised an additional $2.6 billion in new debt by stripping its healthier AmSurg surgery-center business away from lenders and providing it as collateral to a small group of creditors led by Centerbridge Partners and Angelo Gordon. It is an increasingly common tactic for distressed companies backed by private equity that can’t raise money elsewhere, thanks to weaker protections in corporate-loan contracts. Many of the companies wind up filing for chapter 11 anyway."
 
Yup.

It's a lesson to any investor (partnership track or private equity)..be careful investing your money or buy in when the business is subject to the whims of the government, or the ability of a hospital to drop a contract.

Anesthesia groups or contracts aren't tangible assets
 
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As a side note. Only trust state owned 457b retirement options

Never put money in team health or Envison 457 plans (if they offer those plans). Cause they are subject to creditors in case on bankruptcy filings. Hospital non profit 457b plans are “probably safe”’ but I only trust state owned 457b plans
 
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With regards to kkr. They purchased Envison at the height of the amc purchases (late 2017). Remember Usap was planning to go public ipo in late 2017/early 2018 as well.

The goal of Kkr never was to manage envision for a 20% profit margin annually. The goal was to flip it for profit with ipo. “I’ll be gone” mentality of hedge funds. Take the profit. Dump the company.

They were left holding the bag. So for the first 3 years. They made 1 billion dollar profit each year. Millions going back to them. So that’s what I tell people. These guys didn’t lose 3.5 billion. They made a 3.5 billion dollar profit. Look at their filings.

It’s only when their interest payments exceed their revenue collections. That they finally decided to file BK.

The only suckers are the bond holders.
 
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rich people like to put money in PE. PE is all about making money. to them its about how much is made. they dont lose money on deals. this purchase of envision will still be a big net positive probably. there are many ways for them to take debt, file bankruptcy, spin off crappy companies, etc to have others hold the bag

i wonder what will happen with all the envision sites like hackensack
 
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As a side note. Only trust state owned 457b retirement options

Never put money in team health or Envison 457 plans (if they offer those plans). Cause they are subject to creditors in case on bankruptcy filings. Hospital non profit 457b plans are “probably safe”’ but I only trust state owned 457b plans

The only non-government entities that can offer 457 plans are nonprofits. The Team Healths and Envisions of the world aren’t eligible to offer them.

Hospitals can go bankrupt. If you see your hospital circling the drain, you can’t take your money out of the 457 unless you leave or are over 70.
 
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Envision Healthcare is planning to file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, according to people familiar with the matter, capping one of the biggest losses ever for the physician-staffing company’s backers at private-equity firm KKR.
The bankruptcy filing, which could be made as soon as this weekend, will wipe out the investment of KKR, which took Envision private in a $5.5 billion buyout in 2018. Including debt, the deal was worth about $10 billion, making it one of KKR’s largest investments in the healthcare industry.
Envision now has around $7 billion of debt outstanding, much of which trades at under 10 cents on the dollar as the company’s finances have steadily deteriorated over the last two years. They have been pressured by high labor costs, a bruising battle with insurer UnitedHealth and federal legislation that took aim at a key component of Envision’s business.

Much of Envision’s debt will be swapped for shares in the reorganized company, the people said.
Envision had been exploring a chapter 11 bankruptcy filing to restructure its debt burden, The Wall Street Journal previously reported. The company missed a March 31 deadline to report quarterly financials and skipped an interest payment due in April, setting the clock on a 30-day grace period before its lenders could push the company into an involuntary bankruptcy.
For KKR, which invested about $3.5 billion in partnership with co-investors into the deal, the loss would be among the steepest in its history. The firm wrote down its $4 billion stake as part of the 2015 bankruptcy of Energy Future Holdings, formerly known as TXU, which it bought in 2007 as part of a consortium of private-equity firms, for $31.8 billion.
The KKR fund Envision is in has already written off the investment and still has a net annualized return of 19%, according to people familiar with the matter.
Bankers and lawyers have been predicting an uptick in bankruptcies this year as companies grapple with sharply higher financing costs and as recession fears mount. Advent International-owned Serta Simmons Bedding filed for chapter 11 in January, citing an inability to refinance debts coming due this year. Private-equity companies tend to pay for their acquisitions by saddling their targets with healthy helpings of debt.
The failure of Envision illustrates the risks of layering debt onto a business in a rapidly changing industry. The company went from generating more than $1 billion in earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization in the year ended September 2020 to less than $250 million two years later, according to people familiar with the matter.
Other private-equity backed physician-staffing companies, which help hospitals staff emergency rooms and other departments, have also suffered. Bonds due in 2025 for TeamHealth, which Blackstone bought for $3 billion in 2017, are trading at 51 cents on the dollar, according to MarketAxess.

KKR’s loss would be among the steepest in its history.

Envision has faced a litany of problems in recent years. The Covid-19 pandemic caused patients to avoid hospitals, hitting the top line and leading many doctors to leave the profession.
That, along with broader wage inflation, have led labor costs, particularly for anesthesiologists, to skyrocket. Meanwhile, the company has been embroiled in a long-running contract dispute with UnitedHealth over what Envision’s physicians get paid. An independent arbitration panel earlier this month awarded Envision damages of $91 million related to its lawsuit against the insurer over reduced reimbursements for services performed in 2017 and 2018.
Envision and its private-equity owners were also engulfed in a costly public fight over legislation to curb so-called surprise billing, which pitted it and other employers of medical providers against insurance companies. The resulting No Surprises Act bans providers from going after patients for bills their insurers refuse to cover.
Envision had already moved many of its high-margin out-of-network relationships with insurance companies in-network and had adopted a corporate policy prohibiting surprise billing, cutting into the company’s profit.
Envision last year raised an additional $2.6 billion in new debt by stripping its healthier AmSurg surgery-center business away from lenders and providing it as collateral to a small group of creditors led by Centerbridge Partners and Angelo Gordon. It is an increasingly common tactic for distressed companies backed by private equity that can’t raise money elsewhere, thanks to weaker protections in corporate-loan contracts. Many of the companies wind up filing for chapter 11 anyway.
In bankruptcy, the smaller creditor group would be entitled to be paid out before other creditors, improving its chances of a recovery as the company restructures.
Write to Miriam Gottfried at [email protected] and Alexander Saeedy at [email protected]
 
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The only non-government entities that can offer 457 plans are nonprofits. The Team Healths and Envisions of the world aren’t eligible to offer them.

Hospitals can go bankrupt. If you see your hospital circling the drain, you can’t take your money out of the 457 unless you leave or are over 70.

i would quit for sure if thats the case. can quit, take money out, and go back later if needed
 
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The only non-government entities that can offer 457 plans are nonprofits. The Team Healths and Envisions of the world aren’t eligible to offer them.

Hospitals can go bankrupt. If you see your hospital circling the drain, you can’t take your money out of the 457 unless you leave or are over 70.
Team health when they took over from my old private group had some type of executive employee pretax investment plan where we could put in another 18k-30k pretax (in addition to their normal 401k pretax program). Forgot what that was called.

That plan would have been exposed to any creditors if team health filed BK.

 
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They came out ahead then, they will come out ahead now.

“ For private equity, however, the appeal is clear: The deals are virtually all upside, and carry minimal risk. Many private-equity firms chip in only about 1 to 2 percent of the equity needed for a leveraged buyout, and skim fees and interest throughout the deal. If things go well, the firms take a huge cut of the profit when they exit. If everything blows up, they usually still escape with nary a burn. Toys “R” Us was still paying interest on loans it got from KKR and Bain up until 2016, as well as millions a year in “advisory fees” for unspecified services rendered. According to one estimate, the money KKR and Bain partners earned from those fees more than covered the firms’ losses in the deal.”
 
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So what happens to people who put $ into the deferred comp plan?
Who knows. Not sure if E

They came out ahead then, they will come out ahead now.

“ For private equity, however, the appeal is clear: The deals are virtually all upside, and carry minimal risk. Many private-equity firms chip in only about 1 to 2 percent of the equity needed for a leveraged buyout, and skim fees and interest throughout the deal. If things go well, the firms take a huge cut of the profit when they exit. If everything blows up, they usually still escape with nary a burn. Toys “R” Us was still paying interest on loans it got from KKR and Bain up until 2016, as well as millions a year in “advisory fees” for unspecified services rendered. According to one estimate, the money KKR and Bain partners earned from those fees more than covered the firms’ losses in the deal.”
KKR wins even when they are in the creditor side (toys r us). And still wins when they are on the losing side (envision).

It’s like they call heads with a two sided head coin.

Like i said. The profits they made from the first three years of the Envison deal more than paid off their 3.5 billion investment capital expenditure.
 
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Glad we parted ways with Envision last year. It was easy to see the writing on the wall with this several years ago. A little surprised it took this long.
 
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Glad we parted ways with Envision last year. It was easy to see the writing on the wall with this several years ago. A little surprised it took this long.
Depends on the contract. Hospital likes to take over more lucrative contracts and Keep them w2. What usually happens is envision will demand a bigger stipend. Hospital will say no.

Envison will leave. Since they don’t think the can make the 20-30% profit margin

Hospital will eat some of the cost as long as they make it up on the facility fees.

Being hospitals employee usually means same salary as envision. But better healthcare plans. And also more hospitals retirement options with option to put away much more than the 18k-20k pretax with Envison with very little matching. I know how these deals are made.
 
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Envision employees who have deferred comp are going to have a severe haircut!
What type of deferred comp will a typical doc have? Envision can’t do 457. Maybe just a signing bonus, but those are usually paid out at the beginning of your contract. For example, you get a 100k signing bonus and start July 1, first paycheck will have 33k bonus, next July 1 will have 33k and the following July 1 will have 33k (things are typically paid over 3 years). Some places give it all up front. So you shouldn’t lose anything bonus wise.
 
Check the wording of your contract. I don't recall specifics but someone mentioned previously here that Envision was going after signing bonuses after losing a contract in CA. What would happen in a massive bankruptcy though may be quite different.
 
Depends on the contract. Hospital likes to take over more lucrative contracts and Keep them w2. What usually happens is envision will demand a bigger stipend. Hospital will say no.

Envison will leave. Since they don’t think the can make the 20-30% profit margin

Hospital will eat some of the cost as long as they make it up on the facility fees.

Being hospitals employee usually means same salary as envision. But better healthcare plans. And also more hospitals retirement options with option to put away much more than the 18k-20k pretax with Envison with very little matching. I know how these deals are made.
Bingo.
 
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What type of deferred comp will a typical doc have? Envision can’t do 457. Maybe just a signing bonus, but those are usually paid out at the beginning of your contract. For example, you get a 100k signing bonus and start July 1, first paycheck will have 33k bonus, next July 1 will have 33k and the following July 1 will have 33k (things are typically paid over 3 years). Some places give it all up front. So you shouldn’t lose anything bonus wise.
Signing bonus my friend had to pay back when envision left the hospital last year. Another amc was taking over and If he stayed with the new amc they would have paid off his remaining pro rated sign on bonus. So 50k for 2 years. He was there almost 1 year. So had to pay back 25k roughly. It gets messy with the taxes paid because u have to remember to reclaim the taxes already taken out

He signed another 50k sign on bonus with a hospital employed place so he actually came out 25k more ahead.
 
This company and its predecessors have left so much destruction in their wake it’s criminal.
 
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How do you figure?
Only if he stays for 2 years right?
Company A (envision fires hospital). Company B takes over. Doc doesn’t stay. Pays back pro rated 50k (25k since he’s was there 1 year)

Docs moves to company C (hospital employee (different hospitals from the one envision fired). Hospital gives him another 50k for 2 more years.
 
Company A (envision fires hospital). Company B takes over. Doc doesn’t stay. Pays back pro rated 50k (25k since he’s was there 1 year)

Docs moves to company C (hospital employee (different hospitals from the one envision fired). Hospital gives him another 50k for 2 more years.

But he’s committed to “someone” for total of three years right? 75K?

That’s not so different if I work for company A for two years to get my sign on bonus, jump ship right after I am done my 2 years; sign another contract with company B and get a 2 year sign on bonus. Right? I wasn’t sure where the extra 25K coming from. Unless I misunderstood.
 
If envision goes bankrupt what will happen to the physicians working at their practices?
It's chapter 11, not 7. It's all about debt restructuring. They're not going out of business.

Operations will continue, especially the groups with decent contracts that are in the black. Most likely Envision/KKR sells off its losing / "bad" assets, and drops the contracts that are hemorrhaging money. They'll probably continue to run their "good" assets.

Groups that are considered "bad" assets will probably either dissolve and have a chance to form new local groups, or (far more likely) be absorbed into the hospitals that they currently work at as hospital salaried physicians.

My understanding is that the majority of Envison's "bad" assets were on the Emergency Medicine and AmSurg side of things... most of their anesthesia practices are doing OK although I'm sure there are exceptions.
 
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But he’s committed to “someone” for total of three years right? 75K?

That’s not so different if I work for company A for two years to get my sign on bonus, jump ship right after I am done my 2 years; sign another contract with company B and get a 2 year sign on bonus. Right? I wasn’t sure where the extra 25K coming from. Unless I misunderstood.
But he’s committed to “someone” for total of three years right? 75K?

That’s not so different if I work for company A for two years to get my sign on bonus, jump ship right after I am done my 2 years; sign another contract with company B and get a 2 year sign on bonus. Right? I wasn’t sure where the extra 25K coming from. Unless I misunderstood.
Correct. U keep wanting to get the extra 25k sign on bonus. So instead of 2/50. It’s essentially 3/75k but split with 2 different employers

That’s what crna’s are doing with many places. Getting sign on 2 years bailing to other places for 2 years.

Some places want 5 year sign on bonus but i wouldn’t consider that.
 
It's chapter 11, not 7. It's all about debt restructuring. They're not going out of business.

Operations will continue, especially the groups with decent contracts that are in the black. Most likely Envision/KKR sells off its losing / "bad" assets, and drops the contracts that are hemorrhaging money. They'll probably continue to run their "good" assets.

Groups that are considered "bad" assets will probably either dissolve and have a chance to form new local groups, or (far more likely) be absorbed into the hospitals that they currently work at as hospital salaried physicians.

My understanding is that the majority of Envison's "bad" assets were on the Emergency Medicine and AmSurg side of things... most of their anesthesia practices are doing OK although I'm sure there are exceptions.
Amsurg is the cash cow. They collect facility fees from their amsurg division. Usually gi docs sold their 49% stake to amsurg many years ago. Amsurg than “leases” back office space at many places. But tax havens with this manuever.
 
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Amsurg is the cash cow. They collect facility fees from their amsurg division. Usually gi docs sold their 49% stake to amsurg many years ago. Amsurg than “leases” back office space at many places. But tax havens with this manuever.
Got it - I was probably mistaken about AmSurg being unprofitable. It was just hearsay. I still think the answer to "what now?" is that the "good assets" get to keep running business as usual (for now, at least) while the "bad assets" get liquidated/sold/dumped. And KKR/Envisions creditors will get a say in court as to which assets are good and bad and they get to start dictating some of those management decisions to Envision now.
 
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The only non-government entities that can offer 457 plans are nonprofits. The Team Healths and Envisions of the world aren’t eligible to offer them.

Hospitals can go bankrupt. If you see your hospital circling the drain, you can’t take your money out of the 457 unless you leave or are over 70.
Dislike this guy but good table here. Should You Use Your 457(b)? | White Coat Investor
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Got it - I was probably mistaken about AmSurg being unprofitable. It was just hearsay. I still think the answer to "what now?" is that the "good assets" get to keep running business as usual (for now, at least) while the "bad assets" get liquidated/sold/dumped. And KKR/Envisions creditors will get a say in court as to which assets are good and bad and they get to start dictating some of those management decisions to Envision now.
Article explaining what u know will happen. They have already ditch non profitable contracts.

There are so many individuals hospitals or even surgery center contracts. It will be an interesting dump off what Envison /kkr get to keep.


Drawing on lessons from other PE-owned companies facing financial distress—like Nine West, J. Crew, and Sears—KKR will likely emerge unscathed by dividing Envision into two companies, one with the valuable assets and the second with the remaining assets. For example, after the leveraged buyout of Nine West, Sycamore Partners immediately moved the most valuable brands out of the reach of creditors, leaving all of the original debt on Nine West. It paid itself a $40 million dividend, sold the better brands, and pocketed the proceeds. Nine West, meanwhile, filed for bankruptcy in 2018, laid off its workers, and closed all its stores.

Following suit, KKR may divide Envision’s assets, with “Bad Envision” holding the least profitable assets and the debt, while “Good Envision” gets to make a clean start and raise new debt to pay off creditors holding the debt of Bad Envision, at significantly less than 100 cents on the dollar.

Bad Envision, now left holding the debt, will need to engage in drastic cost-cutting to service debt and stave off bankruptcy. Even without the specter of bankruptcy, Envision physicians are under pressure to meet corporate performance metrics. According to a December 2021 California lawsuit filed by physicians at an ER facility, Envision’s corporate management has “profound and pervasive” control over its doctors. It determines pay and staffing, work schedules, patient volumes, and internal standards for treatment. Envision pits physician performance against the standards, “with the intention of modifying and interfering with” the physicians’ judgment of how best to treat patients.

The situation at Bad Envision can be expected to be even worse, with understaffing to save money imposing costs on both doctors and patients.”

 
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Article explaining what u know will happen. They have already ditch non profitable contracts.

There are so many individuals hospitals or even surgery center contracts. It will be an interesting dump off what Envison /kkr get to keep.


Drawing on lessons from other PE-owned companies facing financial distress—like Nine West, J. Crew, and Sears—KKR will likely emerge unscathed by dividing Envision into two companies, one with the valuable assets and the second with the remaining assets. For example, after the leveraged buyout of Nine West, Sycamore Partners immediately moved the most valuable brands out of the reach of creditors, leaving all of the original debt on Nine West. It paid itself a $40 million dividend, sold the better brands, and pocketed the proceeds. Nine West, meanwhile, filed for bankruptcy in 2018, laid off its workers, and closed all its stores.

Following suit, KKR may divide Envision’s assets, with “Bad Envision” holding the least profitable assets and the debt, while “Good Envision” gets to make a clean start and raise new debt to pay off creditors holding the debt of Bad Envision, at significantly less than 100 cents on the dollar.

Bad Envision, now left holding the debt, will need to engage in drastic cost-cutting to service debt and stave off bankruptcy. Even without the specter of bankruptcy, Envision physicians are under pressure to meet corporate performance metrics. According to a December 2021 California lawsuit filed by physicians at an ER facility, Envision’s corporate management has “profound and pervasive” control over its doctors. It determines pay and staffing, work schedules, patient volumes, and internal standards for treatment. Envision pits physician performance against the standards, “with the intention of modifying and interfering with” the physicians’ judgment of how best to treat patients.

The situation at Bad Envision can be expected to be even worse, with understaffing to save money imposing costs on both doctors and patients.”


This is why private equity is evil. The only people who win is KKR ans they will make ridiculous profits even when they declare bankruptcy. Everyone else holds the bag
 
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Even separating the good and bad sites, Envision is still in trouble. NSA and Labor Costs are still eating their profit, that won’t change. At a certain point hospitals will stop increasing their stipends at their demands. My two cents, envision (as we know it) will be completely gone in 5 years and KKR will still have made a fortune off the acquisition.
 
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Envision dropped 3 hospitals in my area in the past 2 months and many of the remaining hospitals they cover are actively shopping. I’m assuming the Amsurg run centers are safe but my partners are circling like vultures waiting to snatch them up. I’m not sure of all the details but I know that at one of the bigger hospitals they waived the noncompetes and are walking away. New group will retain all current providers that want to stay. I’m guessing they are hoping to preserve the relationship with the hospital system since they cover quite a few of their other sites but I think the damage is done.

In other news.. teamhealth is moving to all 1099 in this area.. I’m thinking they are trying to cut costs to stay alive.
 
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Even separating the good and bad sites, Envision is still in trouble. NSA and Labor Costs are still eating their profit, that won’t change. At a certain point hospitals will stop increasing their stipends at their demands. My two cents, envision (as we know it) will be completely gone in 5 years and KKR will still have made a fortune off the acquisition.
Envision may not survive no matter what but thats what KKK wants. They got their money, took a few more bites of the apple, ready to move on from this dead horse. They just have to go through the motions.

I wish I could consolidate all of my real estate debt into the worse property. keep the good stuff and then let the bank have the house with all the debt on it. Wishful thinking.
 
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It w
Envision may not survive no matter what but thats what KKK wants. They got their money, took a few more bites of the apple, ready to move on from this dead horse. They just have to go through the motions.

I wish I could consolidate all of my real estate debt into the worse property. keep the good stuff and then let the bank have the house with all the debt on it. Wishful thinking.
its just white collar crime (but legal) what kkr is doing.

That’s what happen to GM and Chrysler on a bigger level. The bad parts stayed with the govt. the private equity (cerebus) who had 50 billion in assets got to escape their Chrysler deal losing very little. And really 10% is not
Much lost since the took a bunch of fees before hand.

 
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Vulture capitalism is the American way.

We throw so much talent at this it’s disgusting. People fight over getting into Ivy League just so they can have the credentials to maybe get a job at one of these parasitic firms. This is what we waste our time on.

Disgraceful
 
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We throw so much talent at this it’s disgusting. People fight over getting into Ivy League just so they can have the credentials to maybe get a job at one of these parasitic firms. This is what we waste our time on.

Disgraceful

This should be made illegal. Disgusting what people do for money.
 
Money is the new God. Or maybe it has always been that way.

It’s always been that way. In the past we invoked god to cover for it but now
 
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Money is the new God. Or maybe it has always been that way.

Quest for status/access to resources have always been hardwired into us since they increase the odds of our DNA existing/propagating. Money serves as the primary tool to achieve this is modern society. The concept seems to be more hardwired in the US, compared to other countries. Technology has made this worse (eg. social comparison, consumerism etc)
 
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Quest for status/access to resources have always been hardwired into us since they increase the odds of our DNA existing/propagating. Money serves as the primary tool to achieve this is modern society. The concept seems to be more hardwired in the US, compared to other countries. Technology has made this worse (eg. social comparison, consumerism etc)
Biggest difference between America and the old world is a lack of an aristocracy. In England you can have a lot of money, but you haven’t ‘made it’ with the in crowd unless you were born into a prominent family or get some kind of peerage. So money is nice but it’s not the biggest social currency, whereas in the US the amount of money you have is the sole determinant of your social standing. Was a good thing for awhile, but the wealth concentration and intergenerational wealth transfer is starting to resemble an aristocracy with none of the manners.
 
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