KOL vs DOL: Implications for Pain...

IPSIS: Formerly the Spine Intervention Society
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drusso

drusso

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journaloei.scholasticahq.com

Moving From KOLs to DOLs - the changing influence of healthcare providers | Published in Journal of Orthopaedic Experience & Innovation

By Alok Sharan, Vinod Dasa & 3 more. This article discusses the changing role of KOLs to DOLs and defines what roles each group has in influencing behavior among healthcare providers.
journaloei.scholasticahq.com journaloei.scholasticahq.com

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DOLs have emerged as a new breed of influencers in healthcare, leveraging digital platforms to quickly and widely share information while being more relatable and measurable than traditional KOLs. However, it remains crucial for both DOLs and KOLs to disseminate evidence-based information to responsibly maintain public trust in healthcare.

Reach: DOLs can reach a broader, international audience more quickly through social media and online platforms, while KOLs typically influence through traditional methods like conferences and publications.

Speed of dissemination: DOLs can share new ideas and information immediately online, while it can take months or years for KOLs to publish research in traditional outlets.

Diversity: DOLs can come from various backgrounds and specialties, including non-traditional healthcare roles, while KOLs are often from academic or well-known institutions.

Measurability: DOLs' influence can be easily measured through digital metrics like followers, views, likes, shares, and comments, while KOLs' impact is harder to quantify.

Authenticity: DOLs are often seen as providing practical, real-world advice, and their opinions are perceived as being more authentic. KOLs may be viewed as out of touch or biased due to their academic or consulting roles.

Adaptability: DOLs have thrived during the Covid-19 crisis, as many in-person meetings and conferences were canceled, forcing a shift to digital platforms for information dissemination.

DOLs have emerged as a new breed of influencers in healthcare, leveraging digital platforms to quickly and widely share information while being more relatable and measurable than traditional KOLs. However, it remains crucial for both DOLs and KOLs to disseminate evidence-based information to responsibly maintain public trust in healthcare.
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“Seen as more authentic” by whom?
 
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how many of the Pain KOLs are from academics?

none that i can recount. almost all of them are private practice with huge financial connections to industry. the opposite of academia.

However, it remains crucial for both DOLs and KOLs to disseminate evidence-based information to responsibly maintain public trust in healthcare.
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well, Pain Medicine has already screwed that part up.
 
Ducttape said:
how many of the Pain KOLs are from academics?

none that i can recount. almost all of them are private practice with huge financial connections to industry. the opposite of academia.


well, Pain Medicine has already screwed that part up.
Click to expand...
I initially read that ".... for both Dols and Kols to DISMISS evidence based information..." I had to do a double take.
 
BobBarker said:
My understanding from what Sayed told me that he gets 100% of his professional fees plus his academic appointment plus his speaking gigs.
Click to expand...

Perhaps academics has changed, like many other things, but that doesn’t sound like a legit academic arrangement. NBA maybe.
 
Sayed may have an academic appointment but he is not in the same “academic” category as Smuck, Kennedy, McCormick, etc.

I’ll admit, I am biased against ASPN/NANS KOL baloney
 
There's academics and then there's priv-ademics, but honestly, it's all the same except maybe one actually has clinical volume/experience.

Academic KOLs make money off those talks via promotion metrics/honorariums/etc. Engaging in societies gets time away for promoting the academic brand. Research money can get funneled via the academic institute, and some of it can be used as a bonus/slush fund in some setups.

These days the university hospital systems aren't pushing the same academic goals though.
 
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lobelsteve said:
They all have ruined the field by pushing a financial agenda for corporations to sway doctors, patients, payors to perform excessive and not well proven treatments.
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Many would view this as an “extreme” opinion and something that undermines progress in our field. Unfortunately, after three decades in the field, I have to say that it is 100% accurate. It’s a circus and the clowns are running the show.
 
I think there a lot of people who go into pain because they have the ego of a surgeon without the stamina. Myself included. That lends itself towards more posturing and preening, the flashiness without the taste.
 
NJPAIN said:
Many would view this as an “extreme” opinion and something that undermines progress in our field. Unfortunately, after three decades in the field, I have to say that it is 100% accurate. It’s a circus and the clowns are running the show.
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Maybe

but it's also a balance. Look how far pain medicine and interventional pain has come. Doing spacers, MILD, etc no way we could do that without industry support. Same for SCS.

People can be too academic and prevent innovation. Sure guys like Steve will poo poo everything. Nothing is perfect. But heck if I can prevent a large spinal surgery by something I can offer my patient. why not? As long as it's safe and you're not burning any bridges. Nothing in our modern pain mgt tools as long as it's done safely, prevents someone from having bigger back surgeries.

For those of us that did Anesthesia in training. We all know how much risk is involved in Spine surgery. It's huge (blood loss, blindness,etc).
Most of what we can do to help people get better requires almost minimal anesthesia. We should factor this into the "win" for our specialty.
 
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PinchandBurn said:
Maybe

but it's also a balance. Look how far pain medicine and interventional pain has come. Doing spacers, MILD, etc no way we could do that without industry support. Same for SCS.

People can be too academic and prevent innovation. Sure guys like Steve will poo poo everything. Nothing is perfect. But heck if I can prevent a large spinal surgery by something I can offer my patient. why not? As long as it's safe and you're not burning any bridges. Nothing in our modern pain mgt tools as long as it's done safely, prevents someone from having bigger back surgeries.

For those of us that did Anesthesia in training. We all know how much risk is involved in Spine surgery. It's huge (blood loss, blindness,etc).
Most of what we can do to help people get better requires almost minimal anesthesia. We should factor this into the "win" for our specialty.
Click to expand...
Your post outlines just how much you do not know.
 
lobelsteve said:
Your post outlines just how much you do not know.
Click to expand...
Or how much you do not.

You're a smart guy. But you're also employed now.

You don't know what it takes to run an ethical private practice. It's not a bad word.

How do you think anything was ever invented without financial support from Industry. Additionally, you are naive to think academics don't have problem. Look at all these professor's getting in trouble for plagiarism, taking kick backs.
 
PinchandBurn said:
Maybe

but it's also a balance. Look how far pain medicine and interventional pain has come. Doing spacers, MILD, etc no way we could do that without industry support. Same for SCS.

People can be too academic and prevent innovation. Sure guys like Steve will poo poo everything. Nothing is perfect. But heck if I can prevent a large spinal surgery by something I can offer my patient. why not? As long as it's safe and you're not burning any bridges. Nothing in our modern pain mgt tools as long as it's done safely, prevents someone from having bigger back surgeries.

For those of us that did Anesthesia in training. We all know how much risk is involved in Spine surgery. It's huge (blood loss, blindness,etc).
Most of what we can do to help people get better requires almost minimal anesthesia. We should factor this into the "win" for our specialty.
Click to expand...
Spacers and mild? Those are your examples? Uh, no thanks. SCS and pumps mostly suck

The only legit innovation in the last couple decades is that we are a little better at how we do ESIs and RF. Also, BVNA in the right patients seems to work a bit
 
gaspasser127 said:
ASPN/NANS are filled with people who love circle jerking

SDN is filled with people who have a holier than thou mentality

Both groups of people think highly of themselves for no good reason
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Agree..sort of..

Last time I checked, to post an opinion on sdn doesn’t grant large sums of money..🤔

On the flip side, I also think it’s hilarious that some on here would even comment on being a money hungry ***** based on $750 offering for prp…

And yet someone would defend sayed. I got nothing against the guy besides the fact that he’s clearly an industry *****
 
Here’s the problem:

If you’re private practice, unless you genuinely made if from ground zero, you are riding someone’s coat tails..so take a pause..

If you’re hospital employed, you will tout your “better decision making and therefore your better mental space based on who you are” but you are also just someone’s bitch at the end of the day despite your wonderful RVUs and oodles of vacation time.

Bottom line is..unless you are truly a genuine start up from nothing and sweat it out for years to keep it from nothing..

You are nothing special..I very much include myself in the nothing at all special and highly replaceable category
 
Dr. Ice said:
Agree..sort of..

Last time I checked, to post an opinion on sdn doesn’t grant large sums of money..🤔

On the flip side, I also think it’s hilarious that some on here would even comment on being a money hungry ***** based on $750 offering for prp…

And yet someone would defend sayed. I got nothing against the guy besides the fact that he’s clearly an industry *****
Click to expand...

There are true industry ****** out there.

Sayed is not one of them.
 
SSdoc33 said:
Spacers and mild? Those are your examples? Uh, no thanks. SCS and pumps mostly suck

The only legit innovation in the last couple decades is that we are a little better at how we do ESIs and RF. Also, BVNA in the right patients seems to work a bit
Click to expand...

There is a lot of truth to what you state. We undervalue the simple advancements like understanding anterior column vs posterior column pain, refinement of RFN technique and CLO for ESI. I get it; those things are not “sexy”. Being a pain surgeon is sexy. I think that PNS, SCS and especially ReActiv8 have the ability to help a very select group of patients as part of a carefully thought out treatment plan. Far more patients get these treatments than should and in the end we ignore poor long term outcomes because we want to bask in the glory of short term good outcomes. We really do a disservice to patients when we ignore the need for individualized treatment based on a reasonable attempt at diagnosis and fall into the trap of block, block, block. RFN, stim, pump.

My personal opinion is that all of this excitement about pain medicine be leaders in MIS spine surgery and how we are saving lives by keeping patients out of the hands of surgeons is misguided. There are plenty of talented surgeons who offer remarkable MIS approaches to real surgical solutions. We need to get our patients into THOSE hands and keep them out of the hands of surgical hacks. I don’t believe that the correct approach is for us to essentially use a staple in a situation where a lag bolt is required. Again, my unsolicited assessment of the situation. Perhaps I am mistaken.
 
Dr. Ice said:
Here’s the problem:

If you’re private practice, unless you genuinely made if from ground zero, you are riding someone’s coat tails..so take a pause..

If you’re hospital employed, you will tout your “better decision making and therefore your better mental space based on who you are” but you are also just someone’s bitch at the end of the day despite your wonderful RVUs and oodles of vacation time.

Bottom line is..unless you are truly a genuine start up from nothing and sweat it out for years to keep it from nothing..

You are nothing special..I very much include myself in the nothing at all special and highly replaceable category
Click to expand...

Build it, own it, and ride it into the future.
 
gaspasser127 said:
You guys do realize these are real people right?

They can read this stuff.

Sitting behind a keyboard anonymously bashing people isn’t cool.

But hey if it makes you feel better about yourself, go for it 👍🏼
Click to expand...

Show your cards and put your money where your mouth is.

KOL Aptitude Test (KOLAT)​

Instructions: For each statement, please indicate your level of agreement using the 5-point scale provided. The scale ranges from 1 (Strongly Disagree) to 5 (Strongly Agree). Your responses will help determine your suitability to become a Key Opinion Leader (KOL) in the device industry.
  1. Strongly Disagree
  2. Disagree
  3. Neutral
  4. Agree
  5. Strongly Agree

  1. I am passionate about staying updated with the latest trends and innovations in the device industry.
  2. I have a strong presence on multiple social media platforms and enjoy engaging with my audience.
  3. I am comfortable speaking in public and presenting complex information in an understandable way.
  4. I consistently produce high-quality content related to the device industry that is informative and engaging.
  5. I have a good network within the device industry, including connections with other professionals and companies.
  6. I am open to receiving feedback and criticism about my content and views.
  7. I can influence others' opinions and decisions regarding device industry products and trends.
  8. I am committed to maintaining access to cutting-edge treatments and advancing pain surgery.
  9. I can meet and exceed others' expectations; if called to do something, I'll show up.
  10. I am willing to collaborate with device companies and other stakeholders for mutual growth and learning.

Scoring:​

  • Total Score: Sum the scores of all 10 responses. The maximum possible score is 50, and the minimum is 10.

Cut-off Scores:​

  • 31-40:Likely Not Suitable to be KOL
    • This range indicates a moderate level of aptitude for becoming a KOL in the device industry. While there are strengths, there may also be significant areas for improvement.
  • 41-45:Somewhat Suitable to be KOL
    • Scores in this range suggest a good fit for a KOL role, with strong skills and aptitudes that align well with the requirements. However, there may still be areas to enhance to reach a higher level of effectiveness.
  • 46-50:Very Suitable to be KOL
    • This score range indicates a high level of suitability for becoming a KOL in the device industry, with strong capabilities, influence, and a deep understanding of the sector.
 
gaspasser127 said:
You guys do realize these are real people right?

They can read this stuff.

Sitting behind a keyboard anonymously bashing people isn’t cool.

But hey if it makes you feel better about yourself, go for it 👍🏼
Click to expand...
Agree. Fortunately the forum is anonymous so she will never know she is thought of as one of the biggest whors for industry. She is the female Timmy.
 
lobelsteve said:
Agree. Fortunately the forum is anonymous so she will never know she is thought of as one of the biggest whors for industry. She is the female Timmy.
Click to expand...

I guy like you could end up “falling” into the East River with a pocket full of rocks for such disrespect.
 
lobelsteve said:
Agree. Fortunately the forum is anonymous so she will never know she is thought of as one of the biggest whors for industry. She is the female Timmy.
Click to expand...

Says the man with his picture and full name

Also I’m sure TD still earns way more than she does. In the name of gender equality I hope she goes all the way!
 
Never heard of her. Insta looks like any other cute 20 something. Why the hate
 
gaspasser127 said:
There are true industry ****** out there.

Sayed is not one of them.
Click to expand...
um...

you do know he is getting roughly 100k a year from payments from companies, right? particularly Saluda. this is on top of roughly $150-200k payments for research.

do you truly believe that Saluda would be anywhere on our radars without their "investment" in Sayed?

and yes, he should be paid for the work he does for these companies, but let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that there is no bias in what he advocates.

so he may not be "one of them", but he is still "one of them".




fwiw, i scored 20 on drusso's survey. oh well.
 
Ducttape said:
um...

you do know he is getting roughly 100k a year from payments from companies, right? particularly Saluda. this is on top of roughly $150-200k payments for research.

do you truly believe that Saluda would be anywhere on our radars without their "investment" in Sayed?

and yes, he should be paid for the work he does for these companies, but let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that there is no bias in what he advocates.

so he may not be "one of them", but he is still "one of them".




fwiw, i scored 20 on drusso's survey. oh well.
Click to expand...
Beat you. I got a 21. I don't even trust myself with this stuff.
 
Ducttape said:
um...

you do know he is getting roughly 100k a year from payments from companies, right? particularly Saluda. this is on top of roughly $150-200k payments for research.

do you truly believe that Saluda would be anywhere on our radars without their "investment" in Sayed?

and yes, he should be paid for the work he does for these companies, but let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that there is no bias in what he advocates.

so he may not be "one of them", but he is still "one of them".




fwiw, i scored 20 on drusso's survey. oh well.
Click to expand...

I scored 47. I've administered this to 9 KOL's and the scores have all been high 40's.

I'm hoping to do a podium presentation at NANS or ASPN. This instrument could also be useful in residency and fellowship interviews.
 
I found her socials to be unserious and doubtful shes leading anyone anywhere. The filters are amazing though
 
there are 2 Kiran Patels. you are looking at is the cardiologist in Florida.

the other one seems to be around in NY Staten Island area... i couldnt find her exact office location. the websites seem to the Spine & Pain Institute of NY, but i dont see her profile at that site.
 
nvrsumr said:
I found her socials to be unserious and doubtful shes leading anyone anywhere. The filters are amazing though
Click to expand...

Her Instagram seems pretty professional. Lots of patient interviews and images of procedures. Are you sure you’ve got the right person?
 
Ducttape said:
there are 2 Kiran Patels. you are looking at is the cardiologist in Florida.

the other one seems to be around in NY Staten Island area... i couldnt find her exact office location. the websites seem to the Spine & Pain Institute of NY, but i dont see her profile at that site.
Click to expand...

She started out with Chapman on Staten Island (My home town). Now she is at Lenox Hill in NYC and leads a pain fellowship through Northwell. There are some interesting rumors about how the Lenox Hill gig happened. There may be no truth to them. I certainly have heard nothing first hand so i would only repeat if tortured or if it helped me get her KOL position … LOL. I think cutting someone’s throat boosts my score by 20 points.
 
NJPAIN said:
She started out with Chapman on Staten Island (My home town). Now she is at Lenox Hill in NYC and leads a pain fellowship through Northwell. There are some interesting rumors about how the Lenox Hill gig happened. There may be no truth to them. I certainly have heard nothing first hand so i would only repeat if tortured or if it helped me get her KOL position … LOL. I think cutting someone’s throat boosts my score by 20 points.
Click to expand...
Chapmans X-ray tech did a day at my asc as a side gig for a day..the guy was phenomenal. Did all my setups for me berore I even got into the room. That guy must run a very well oiled machine
 
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