KOL vs DOL: Implications for Pain...

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Ducttape said:
there are 2 Kiran Patels. you are looking at is the cardiologist in Florida.

the other one seems to be around in NY Staten Island area... i couldnt find her exact office location. the websites seem to the Spine & Pain Institute of NY, but i dont see her profile at that site.
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Sigh. Yes. I realize.

Same way I’m pretty sure that this is not actually you:

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nvrsumr said:
I found her socials to be unserious and doubtful shes leading anyone anywhere. The filters are amazing though
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Yes these filters and face apps are amazing. You don't recognize someone anymore when you see her face to face
 
NJPAIN said:
She started out with Chapman on Staten Island (My home town). Now she is at Lenox Hill in NYC and leads a pain fellowship through Northwell. There are some interesting rumors about how the Lenox Hill gig happened. There may be no truth to them. I certainly have heard nothing first hand so i would only repeat if tortured or if it helped me get her KOL position … LOL. I think cutting someone’s throat boosts my score by 20 points.
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I asked one of the reps to fill it out. Perfect 50. This thing has face validity.
 
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Ducttape said:
there are 2 Kiran Patels. you are looking at is the cardiologist in Florida.

the other one seems to be around in NY Staten Island area... i couldnt find her exact office location. the websites seem to the Spine & Pain Institute of NY, but i dont see her profile at that site.
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There are many kiran patels.
It's like Tracy smith... First name can be used for males and females

This kiran is an insta model wannabe insta famous. Nothing wrong with that. But at some point I hope she smells the **** she's shoveling
 
Espn123 said:
The anonymous hate from the holier than thou crowd in this forum is funny
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I highly doubt anybody cares if a doc reps for one or two companies/products (that they hopefully truly believe in).

But when a docs works for several companies to the tune of 6 figures… he/she needs to be recognized as salesmen. If we don’t call out what’s going on and try to keep our own house in order…non-physician entities will gladly do so for us.
 
au bon pain said:
I highly doubt anybody cares if a doc reps for one or two companies/products (that they hopefully truly believe in).

But when a docs works for several companies to the tune of 6 figures… he/she needs to be recognized as salesmen. If we don’t call out what’s going on and try to keep our own house in order…non-physician entities will gladly do so for us.
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If you did 6 different advanced procedures, and you were asked by each of these companies to teach and speak for them, what would you say?

Maybe you would say “sorry my limit is 3, can’t help you.” Not sure how this anonymous forum would see that any differently.
 
Espn123 said:
If you did 6 different advanced procedures, and you were asked by each of these companies to teach and speak for them, what would you say?

Maybe you would say “sorry my limit is 3, can’t help you.” Not sure how this anonymous forum would see that any differently.
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I've been approached before and declined. Not a holier-than-thou thing, just not something I wanted to do at the time. I don't begrudge anybody for doing this a bit. But when you start seeing the same faces manning the webinars/podiums/panels/dinners all in the name of the latest product du jour...that seems normal to you? How much is enough?
 
au bon pain said:
I've been approached before and declined. Not a holier-than-thou thing, just not something I wanted to do at the time. I don't begrudge anybody for doing this a bit. But when you start seeing the same faces manning the webinars/podiums/panels/dinners all in the name of the latest product du jour...that seems normal to you? How much is enough?
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3 is the max…

You are an outlier. I’m sure 99% of those with the opportunity say yes.
 
Espn123 said:
3 is the max…

You are an outlier. I’m sure 99% of those with the opportunity say yes.
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i have been approached and i would never market a product.

i think most doctors would not sell their soul to $ome company as a paid $hill, but i could be wrong.
 
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I have never been approached. Now I feel ugly thanks.
 
Some call it $elling their $oul.

Some call it teaching others to do procedure that they do in their own practice, and getting compensated for weekends and time spent away from their family.

Eye of the beholder…
 
i suspect it is a subconscious sign that he is angry that others are requesting excellence, and expect unbiased and untainted research from said "researchers".

now Dr. Deer has done a lot of research. and he is a benefit to the field.

but he has also received a lot of general payments not associated with research.


and a significant portion of LinkedIn posts that i have seen have not been from researchers, but from people riding on the coattails of "researchers".
 
drusso said:
Show your cards and put your money where your mouth is.

KOL Aptitude Test (KOLAT)​

Instructions: For each statement, please indicate your level of agreement using the 5-point scale provided. The scale ranges from 1 (Strongly Disagree) to 5 (Strongly Agree). Your responses will help determine your suitability to become a Key Opinion Leader (KOL) in the device industry.
  1. Strongly Disagree
  2. Disagree
  3. Neutral
  4. Agree
  5. Strongly Agree

  1. I am passionate about staying updated with the latest trends and innovations in the device industry.
  2. I have a strong presence on multiple social media platforms and enjoy engaging with my audience.
  3. I am comfortable speaking in public and presenting complex information in an understandable way.
  4. I consistently produce high-quality content related to the device industry that is informative and engaging.
  5. I have a good network within the device industry, including connections with other professionals and companies.
  6. I am open to receiving feedback and criticism about my content and views.
  7. I can influence others' opinions and decisions regarding device industry products and trends.
  8. I am committed to maintaining access to cutting-edge treatments and advancing pain surgery.
  9. I can meet and exceed others' expectations; if called to do something, I'll show up.
  10. I am willing to collaborate with device companies and other stakeholders for mutual growth and learning.

Scoring:​

  • Total Score: Sum the scores of all 10 responses. The maximum possible score is 50, and the minimum is 10.

Cut-off Scores:​

  • 31-40:Likely Not Suitable to be KOL
    • This range indicates a moderate level of aptitude for becoming a KOL in the device industry. While there are strengths, there may also be significant areas for improvement.
  • 41-45:Somewhat Suitable to be KOL
    • Scores in this range suggest a good fit for a KOL role, with strong skills and aptitudes that align well with the requirements. However, there may still be areas to enhance to reach a higher level of effectiveness.
  • 46-50:Very Suitable to be KOL
    • This score range indicates a high level of suitability for becoming a KOL in the device industry, with strong capabilities, influence, and a deep understanding of the sector.
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The word you’re looking for is “salesman.” There’s nothing wrong with salesmen and they have difficult jobs but the pain field already has plenty of hype, thanks.
 
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I tried to get a KOL marketing deal for the DISCWASHER (TM) but they acted like I was crazy.
 
The entire field unfortunately lends itself to shills and grifters. I don’t think most intentionally set out to be this. It’s just that we as humans naturally want to fix pain from a structural standpoint when it’s rarely just a structural problem but rather commonly a biopsychosocial issue. We don’t get paid to address the other 90% of the problem nor do we know how to effectively
 
I’ve said it once and I’ve said it again - the payoff for this kind of work just isn’t enough for me. My soul costs a lot more. Seriously though they have to take time in the evenings for webinars, fly to Dallas on the weekend, etc. I’ve found a side hustle that’s much more lucrative. Besides an ego boost I don’t see what they get out of it.
 
CleanUp said:
I’ve said it once and I’ve said it again - the payoff for this kind of work just isn’t enough for me. My soul costs a lot more. Seriously though they have to take time in the evenings for webinars, fly to Dallas on the weekend, etc. I’ve found a side hustle that’s much more lucrative. Besides an ego boost I don’t see what they get out of it.
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Tell me about this side hustle. I need one that’s high yield
 
What's everyone's thoughts on the 5 year data though, minus the potential bias?
 
Holy

openpaymentsdata.cms.gov

CMS Open Payments

The official U.S. government website that houses data collected and published by Open Payments, a federally mandated program that collects information about payments that reporting entities, including drug and medical device companies make to covered recipients like physicians.
openpaymentsdata.cms.gov openpaymentsdata.cms.gov
lobelsteve said:
He works for a nearby Ortho group. Told his partners that I would never let him operate on any of my patients. Too busy counting money to worry about a joint replacement.
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why is he even working with this much money?! Greed I guess.
 
buddababa said:
Holy

openpaymentsdata.cms.gov

CMS Open Payments

The official U.S. government website that houses data collected and published by Open Payments, a federally mandated program that collects information about payments that reporting entities, including drug and medical device companies make to covered recipients like physicians.
openpaymentsdata.cms.gov openpaymentsdata.cms.gov

why is he even working with this much money?! Greed I guess.
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Never met him. Don't care to.
 
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