KUMC Psychiatry

[Not_a_psychic]

I used the search bar, couldn't find any threads about KUMC in Kansas City.

I interviewed at the program and really liked it. Everyone seemed pretty happy. Had a pretty good "gut feeling" after leaving the interview. I know SDN relentlessly hates Carib-IMGs, which this program is packed full of, but they don't bother me at all. But seeing so many of them on the roster made me wonder, is there some blatant reg flag that I'm missing here? Is Kansas City the armpit of the Midwest? Did the seemingly happy residents just put on a show at the dinner/lunch?

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss it "publicly." Haven't seen it discussed anywhere else...

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[Bluejay87]

Kansas City is great! Good size city, lots to do.

My understanding is that KUMC has a reputation for overworking their residents (at least, by psych standards.) The residents certainly weren't miserable but I thought they seemed more stressed than at many other programs. And apparently the four months of internal medicine are extremely hard.

Also, the facilities are definitely underwhelming. I mean, the medical center is nice overall, but the psych-specific areas are badly in need of a facelift.

I didn't hate this program by any means, but you were asking about negatives and this is what I noticed at my interview.

 

[Not_a_psychic]

overworking their residents (at least, by psych standards.)

Yea, I don't remember thinking this on my interview day. They all seemed pretty stress free. I went back and looked at my notes, and I'm fairly sure there's no in-house call. Only home call. I don't understand how you could feel overworked with only home call. But oh well...

 

[Bluejay87]

Alas, it's just very difficult to get a true impression of a program based on a single, one-day visit!

 

[Merovinge]

I used the search bar, couldn't find any threads about KUMC in Kansas City.

I interviewed at the program and really liked it. Everyone seemed pretty happy. Had a pretty good "gut feeling" after leaving the interview. I know SDN relentlessly hates Carib-IMGs, which this program is packed full of, but they don't bother me at all. But seeing so many of them on the roster made me wonder, is there some blatant reg flag that I'm missing here? Is Kansas City the armpit of the Midwest? Did the seemingly happy residents just put on a show at the dinner/lunch?

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss it "publicly." Haven't seen it discussed anywhere else...

I had an average interview there, but it was several years ago. Things felt a bit discombobulated (both the physical locations and residents) and I met a very low number of residents compared to the total number they had. The attending's were very nice that I met, however they seemed to try to sell the city hard and it made me wonder why they would need to sell it so badly. The carib-IMG count simply tells you that US MD's aren't matching there, I imagine from the hard sell on Kansas being nice it might be location dependent though. For what it's worth, family moved to KC after I started residency and I do like the city, it's certainly not the armpit of the midwest.

 

[splik]

Yea, I don't remember thinking this on my interview day. They all seemed pretty stress free. I went back and looked at my notes, and I'm fairly sure there's no in-house call. Only home call. I don't understand how you could feel overworked with only home call. But oh well...

I don't know anything about this program but speaking generally - one could be overworked by having to work weekends as part of the normal working week (i.e. not call) or having long hours (say 8am-8pm) each weekday. as for home call - at most programs "home call" doesn't mean you just stay at home and answer pages without having to do anything. it typically means you can stay at home until you are called in for an admission, consult, because someone is trying to leave AMA, renew restraints/seclusion. So if the hospitals are very busy you could see how "Home call" isn't really home call at all. In fact, it can often be worse than in house call. At some programs "home call" means covering several hospitals at a time too. I have no idea what the situation is at KU but I'm just showing how there are multiple ways in which residents can work longer hours than you might expect.

In general those programs that just want you to be available by pager for your patients, expect you to be available ALL the time 24/7 have your pager on... which is not ideal either.

 

[JKinSC]

The other thing to realize about home call, at least as was told to me by the PD of one location that stressed how great it was, is that it generally means you don't get a post-call day off.

 

[Not_a_psychic]

"home call" doesn't mean you just stay at home and answer pages without having to do anything.

You're absolutely right. Thanks for the reply. I guess I didn't explain my thoughts on it well. When it was explained to me during the interview dinner, the residents used it as a selling point. They said it was great. There was a PGY4 there that said he only had to actually come in from home around 3-4x total throughout his whole time in the program.

Honestly, I left the interview thinking the program was too relaxed. Not the most relaxed of the interview trail (that belongs to the program said the PGY1 hours average out to 43hrs/week with no call at all during PGY1), but still really relaxed to the point where I thought I'd have too much free time...

 

[Bluejay87]

According to FREIDA, they work about 60 hours per week, which seems to be slightly higher than average (at least compared to the other places I interviewed.) But with that said, I think that 43 hours per week sounds like a dream and I've never met a residency program that I thought was "too relaxed," so maybe we are just looking for completely different things. 🙂

 

[splik]

According to FREIDA, they work about 60 hours per week, which seems to be slightly higher than average (at least compared to the other places I interviewed.) But with that said, I think that 43 hours per week sounds like a dream and I've never met a residency program that I thought was "too relaxed," so maybe we are just looking for completely different things. 🙂

I would be skeptical of FREIDA hours, as programs usually have no clue how many hours their residents are actually working and there is a tendency to underestimate hours. though for psychiatry this is less of a problem

 

[Bluejay87]

I would be skeptical of FREIDA hours, as programs usually have no clue how many hours their residents are actually working and there is a tendency to underestimate hours. though for psychiatry this is less of a problem

That's really good to know! I had noticed that there are apparently zero psych programs that list hours >60 on FREIDA, so I suppose 60 is code for "probably a lot."

 

[st2205]

There's no such thing as "too relaxed" of a program.

 

[deleted547627]

That's really good to know! I had noticed that there are apparently zero psych programs that list hours >60 on FREIDA, so I suppose 60 is code for "probably a lot."

I can think of a couple that listed higher working hours. From what I saw they tend to be the IMG-heavy and -exclusive programs: one was Jamaica which lists 71 hrs, and Creedmoor which lists 65. There were some others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

If 60 is code for "a lot" then I don't even want to decipher the 71 hr code.

 

[Risperidawesome]

I'm a 4th year at KUMC going into psychiatry, so I'll tell you what I can. I feel like the program's strengths are it's faculty and residents; The program has worked hard the past few years to respond to residents' concerns, and overall the residents felt that they were well listened to. Several faculty members are dual IM/Psych certified and make a point that their residents are "doctors first", even those not in the IM/Psych track. Personally, I think this is a strength. All of the residents I have worked with have had great attitudes and been pleasant to be around, and the inpatient attendings are very reasonable. There is a surprising amount of psychotherapy and even analysis on the inpatient unit which keeps things interesting.

As for the IMG/DO aspect, all I can say is that I haven't met anyone who made me doubt their ability. everyone seems to get along well. Call is from home, but I do remember one time when a resident had to stay overnight due to a patient's restraint status.

The only "blatant red flag" is the main facility. It's old, unloved, and arguably hazardous to mental health. It gets the job done though. However, residents also rotate at the VA and many moonlight at Osawatamie (KS state hospital, about 40min south of Kansas City). Outpatient facilities are in the new building which is very nice, if you're into that.

Overall, it's a good program. Don't be afraid to rank it. If you're moving to Kansas City from out of state look at Westport and the River Market for cool housing.

 

[Not_a_psychic]

Have a friend in the Match process now, she said she heard a rumor that this program doesn't allow you to do the 3 adult + 2 child track unless you do the child fellowship at their program. If you want to go elsewhere, you have to do the full 4 adult years and then apply for your child fellowship after. Any truth to this? Any applicants this cycle get this vibe when talking to the PD? I interviewed here last year and didn't get this feeling after leaving the IV day. All I remember about their child fellowship is that the hospital (Marillac) uses paper notes (which was a deal breaker).

 

[grapefruit17]

One of the rotations has an hour long commute tho right? Does anyone know how the drive is for the rotations? Also i saw on scutwork some people didnt like the program : (. I would love to know more if this program is a work intensive or more laid back.

 

[Not_a_psychic]

One of the rotations has an hour long commute tho right? Does anyone know how the drive is for the rotations? Also i saw on scutwork some people didnt like the program : (. I would love to know more if this program is a work intensive or more laid back.

From my notes last year:
PGY-1 has one rotation in Topeka, KS (~1 hour 10 min away from the main campus) for Geri Psych at the VA
PGY-1 also has one Neuro rotation in Leavenworth, KS (~30-45 min away, depending on where you live) at the VA
PGY-1 could have either 1 or 2 rotations at that same Leavenworth VA for medicine (depends on scheduling. Some PGY-1's get 1 month there, others get 2, others get zero).

 

[grapefruit17]

From my notes last year:
PGY-1 has one rotation in Topeka, KS (~1 hour 10 min away from the main campus) for Geri Psych at the VA
PGY-1 also has one Neuro rotation in Leavenworth, KS (~30-45 min away, depending on where you live) at the VA
PGY-1 could have either 1 or 2 rotations at that same Leavenworth VA for medicine (depends on scheduling. Some PGY-1's get 1 month there, others get 2, others get zero).

Thanks!