Lab Drama

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Anyone here have stories of research lab drama? How common is it to have arguments with others in the lab? Did I jeopardize my LOR by getting into several verbal arguments with my PI?
 
Did you come off as aggressive or arrogant or was it more of an intellectual disagreement? Sometimes I tell my PI why I think an experiment won't work since he's primarily a physicist and I know more biology than him (he's still 1000x more intelligent that I could hope to be) and we can get into it but at the end of the day we have the same goal and I've been working for him for two years, so we know each other pretty well.
 
Are we talking disagreements about the best approach to research? I've disagreed with my PI before. I've never gotten into a shouting match, but then again he is a very mellow guy.

I think if you're arguing about science and research, and you're being respectful, then it actually reflects highly upon you. Considering your relative lack of experience, being correct is less important than being able to analyze and engage with a research question. My PI likes it when I disagree with him, because it shows him that I'm engaging with the topic, and forces him to work through his ideas more thoroughly.

On the other hand, if you're getting personal, questioning his authority, etc., then yeah, that's bad.
 
One time I was in the lab preparing samples for a project with my two lab partners. Technically, there were supposed to be six of us there doing the work, but the other three people "couldn't" make it that day. Anyways, about half an hour into the work, one of my partners says he's going to leave to go donate plasma. I ask him, "How long are you going to be gone?" and he says: "A little over an hour." So I thought no big deal, we'll still get the work done. He then left me and the other guy to prepare the samples, and as we were doing so, my other lab partner gets a phone call from someone, and then he says that HE has to go too.(This is literally like 10 minutes after the other guy left) So I just say "Okay.....", even though I was totally not okay with that. He leaves, and I'm just sitting there by myself in the lab thinking what a horrible situation I just got myself into......that I'm the only person out of the original six who is currently doing work.

Anyways, they both eventually get back after about an hour and a half, and I had almost all of the samples ready. We were about to use a Spectrometer on these samples and collect the data using LoggerPro software, and then I realized that the second guy who left didn't pay attention and had messed up the proportions of the samples he prepared, so we had to prepare all of those samples AGAIN. Once we had finally made the samples correctly, we took them into the other room to do the data collection portion for the day and the guy who messed up the samples says "Uh, sorry but I have to go again.....", and then leaves us. We eventually did get our data for that day, but what was supposed to take around two hours ended up taking over four. That day in lab was the most miserable day of my academic career so far.
 
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I have so many random lab drama stories. I love research but at the end of the day I'm a pretty chill person and I can't get half as anxious and upset as my lab mates do over things that are (in the long run) not a big deal at all. Hoping the OP comes back and explains what kind of lab drama he's dealing with :cat:
 
Gawd, SDN won't have enough electrons for me to tell you what I had to put up with both as a grad student, and post-doc.

We once had a young lady in the lab from Harvard doing a UG summer research project. She burst into tears when I accidentally took her ice bucket. Mind you, the only thing in it was ice. I am NOT making this up!

Anyone here have stories of research lab drama? How common is it to have arguments with others in the lab?

Yes.
Did I jeopardize my LOR by getting into several verbal arguments with my PI?
 
Goro said:
We once had a young lady in the lab from Harvard doing a UG summer research project. She burst into tears when I accidentally took her ice bucket. Mind you, the only thing in it was ice. I am NOT making this up!
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Am I a bad person because I find that hilarious?
 
Nope. The incident did lower my respect for Harvard significantly though.

Here's one more story: CH, a grad student in the lab, kept stealing technician JNH's supply of tissue culture media. JHN finally started spiking her media with azide (and kept good media in a differently labelled bottle), and CH's cells started dying. CH stopped borrowing the media after that and made her own.

At another time, JHN hid the scintillation counter racks because she didn't like something CH or I did!

I've noticed that women in the lab tend to be more vicious to each other...an effect I call "estrogen poisoning".

Gregor Wiesmann said:
Am I a bad person because I find that hilarious?
Click to expand...
 
I'm guilty of hiding the only good pair of forceps in the lab. No idea what people would use them for - definitely not delicate work - because they'd get all bent out of shape and become utterly useless to me. And sure enough, when I forgot to hide them again the next day what do I find? Crooked forceps that can't grasp anything thinner than 1 mm. -_-
 
Goro said:
I've noticed that women in the lab tend to be more vicious to each other...an effect I call "estrogen poisoning".
Click to expand...

Wow...you spout this sexist BS and you're supposed to be an adcom?
 
DermViser said:
I truly can't wait till you rotate on OB-Gyn and see if you feel the same way. Just bc an observation is true, doesn't make one a bigot.
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"Observation"? Are you sure it's not because people with sexist tendencies are quick to think "Oh she's angry/emotional? haha women, am I right?" whereas with men they'd be more likely to actually rationalize why he's upset? How ridiculous, a little respect goes a long way; women and men both act "vicious" at times, it has nothing to do with gender. Generalizing requires the least amount of brain-power, and doing so indeed makes you a bigot.
 
U Wot M8 said:
nope. certain ways people act definitely depends on gender. you're upset because his "generalization" is correct most of the time?
Click to expand...

The generalization that women are more vicious most of the time is correct, are you kidding me? Making sexist assumptions is like making racist assumptions, it's harmful, hurtful, and baseless.
 
looncat said:
"Observation"? Are you sure it's not because people with sexist tendencies are quick to think "Oh she's angry/emotional? haha women, am I right?" whereas with men they'd be more likely to actually rationalize why he's upset? How ridiculous, a little respect goes a long way; women and men both act "vicious" at times, it has nothing to do with gender. Generalizing requires the least amount of brain-power, and doing so indeed makes you a bigot.
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Yeah, except people can see how female residents behave and how male residents behave in the exact same environment. Pointing out a correlative observation doesn't make one a "bigot".
 
looncat said:
The generalization that women are more vicious most of the time is correct, are you kidding me? Making sexist assumptions is like making racist assumptions, it's harmful, hurtful, and baseless.
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Good parsing of @Goro's words. Funny how you left out the important part of the quote for context, "vicious to each other".
 
Female colleagues have pointed out the same thing to me, so good luck when you take the MCAT's reading comprehension section; you completely missed what I was trying to get across.

Wow...you spout this sexist BS and you're supposed to be an adcom?

The generalization that women are more vicious most of the time is correct, are you kidding me? Making sexist assumptions is like making racist assumptions, it's harmful, hurtful, and baseless.

Pay attention: I've noticed that women in the lab tend to be more vicious to each other.... An observation noted after spending over 30 years in at least six different laboratories. How many have you been in, and for how long?

At one lab meeting of my thesis advisor's lab, two of the techs, "Annie" and "Irene" started fussing with each other over something...it might have been a particular protocol. My PI had to pick up a large book and she slammed it down on the table top, and then she said "I will NOT have this bickering in MY lab!"
 
ASD2019 said:
Wow people are a little too sensative nowadays! Sooner or later if you observe that a black person is black then you might actually offend someone
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Er. Against my better judgment, commenting from Berkeley --

This is an unfair analogy. There is a problem with suggesting that:
a black person is black = women are vicious (to each other, whatever)
Maybe this was intended humorously or to diffuse tension, but it's a dangerous generalization to make, I think.

As for whether or not a sexist comment was made, Goro the PI may be on to something with his observation that women are more vicious to each other in lab. It's not hard to speculate as to why this might be the case in Goro's experience. Assuming Goro has been at series of respectable institutions (during the last few decades/an earlier time), perhaps there has been and still is a latent feeling among women in competitive sectors/labs that they are fighting for the same few(er) positions available to women (i.e. folks who perceive themselves in a minority -- or who are in fact a minority -- pitting themselves against each other). Perhaps women of that time or culture were more habituated to taking out stress on each other than on males.

That said, "estrogen poisoning" is a fairly insensitive joke and perpetuates an unkind stereotype. As a hella liberal such-and-such, I don't think it's right, but I think folks trying to go into medicine would be helped by thicker skin.
 
@Goro IMO, stop. Whether or not it was racist/sexist/offensive, any further attempts to clarify will only worsen things. There's certain things that, once they have offended someone, cannot be rectified. I would just let it go. I have always disagreed with you, but your observation was fine, IMO. I think the "estrogen effect" was a little on the insensitive side, but just let it go.

I had arguments with my PI, but those stories are too specific and identifying, so I can't share. I might out myself a little with this story, but thankfully the lab had a huge number of people. A lab worker was sleeping with the niece of a PI who was 16 (for NYC, legal). His age? 28. No one cared until they started their business in the dark room and autoclave rooms. When a coworker found them once, she didn't say anything, but the 28 year old fought tooth and nail to get her terminated. It was cringe-worthy. She didn't care because she was going to Yale med soon and was working just for fun.

Is it sexist of me to say she was really hot (the Yale girl, not the 16 year old)?
 
Goro said:
Female colleagues have pointed out the same thing to me, so good luck when you take the MCAT's reading comprehension section; you completely missed what I was trying to get across.

Wow...you spout this sexist BS and you're supposed to be an adcom?
Click to expand...

I performed quite well on my MCAT verbal section, but thanks for your concern.

Regardless of your observations (that were likely biased by your preexisting views on women anyway), making the phrase "estrogen poisoning" takes it from a simple observation to straight up sexism. Implying that women's behaviors are controlled by their hormones is the oldest sexist trope in the book. And you calling a estrogen a poison just takes it to the next level. noolsy was able to make a perfectly sensible and non-sexist interpretation of your observation, while you pretty much concluded "lolz women and their crazy hormones!" and left it at that. Give women the benefit of the doubt that you would surely give a man. We can't expect gender inequalities in academia and medicine to improve when the people in positions of power are perpetuating these ideas about women and brushing off any criticism of them as "sensitivity." I expect to see this kind of behavior from SDN's pre-med community, but it's sad to see it come from an adcom too. This mentality clearly runs from top to bottom.
 
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neurotroph said:
Regardless of your observations (that were likely biased by your preexisting views on women anyway), making the phrase "estrogen poisoning" takes it from a simple observation to straight up sexism. Implying that women's behaviors are controlled by their hormones is the oldest sexist trope in the book.
Click to expand...
To be fair, men are controlled by their hormones too. Testosterone-induced rage is a phrase for a reason.
 
type12 said:
To be fair, men are controlled by their hormones too. Testosterone-induced rage is a phrase for a reason.
Click to expand...

And yet I don't hear that logic applied to men anywhere near as much as its applied to women. Men have to have an extreme/violent shift in their behavior for someone to blame it on their hormones. All women have to do is be in a less than cheerful mood for someone to say "she must be PMSing!"
 
neurotroph said:
And yet I don't hear that logic applied to men anywhere near as much as its applied to women. Men have to have an extreme/violent shift in their behavior for someone to blame it on their hormones. All women have to do is be in a less than cheerful mood for someone to say "she must be PMSing!"
Click to expand...
I would say this is confirmation bias. I don't hear "she must be PMSing" as much as I hear, "Don't be a dick, bro," or "he must be up in 'roids." I'm a guy, so I guess I hear male-discriminating phrases more than female ones.

Someone date me.
 
99da1837_i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing-dog.jpeg

Most drama I ever had with a lab was on account of the damn thing's tail. They're like bull whips, they knock everything over and the dog has no idea what it's hitting with it. Do they even have nerves there or what? Like, dude, you just broke my ankle with that wagging, what the hell... They're super bad for laptops, beers, glasses containing just about anything, and things that live on coffee tables in general. If they weren't so friendly and cute, they'd be unforgivable creatures.
 
Mad Jack said:
99da1837_i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing-dog.jpeg

Most drama I ever had with a lab was on account of the damn thing's tail. They're like bull whips, they knock everything over and the dog has no idea what it's hitting with it. Do they even have nerves there or what? Like, dude, you just broke my ankle with that wagging, what the hell... They're super bad for laptops, beers, glasses containing just about anything, and things that live on coffee tables in general. If they weren't so friendly and cute, they'd be unforgivable creatures.
Click to expand...
Stop trying to bring the thread back on topic...

...but yes, I see what you did there!
 
type12 said:
I would say this is confirmation bias. I don't hear "she must be PMSing" as much as I hear, "Don't be a dick, bro," or "he must be up in 'roids." I'm a guy, so I guess I hear male-discriminating phrases more than female ones.

Someone date me.
Click to expand...
Well this is something that's evident in the media too; it's not just from people I know irl. Not to mention how people go on and on about how menopause affects female behavior but rarely acknowledge how decreasing testosterone levels can affect behavior in aging males. This mindset has definitely stunted research in the field.

To bring the thread back on topic, I've been in an all-female lab for 2 years and have never experienced real drama. One time the other undergrad in my lab used to use my pipette tips when she ran out instead of just getting another box for herself, and once I told her that it was an inconvenience for me (because boxes would disappear from my bench and whatnot) that was that. The most "drama" was when a man from a neighboring lab kept messing with our equipment. Go figure.
 
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Spitphire said:
There's always that one person who gets so mad over such a little comment...

images
Click to expand...

It may be a "little comment" to you or others, but to women who have faced discrimination in the workplace, this "little comment" is both insensitive and promoting the view that "haha you women will get emotional over any little thing". Whether or not the comment said women are vicious to each other isn't really the point, the point is that this casual sexism is destructive.
It's also not surprising to me that older female colleagues would also make comments like this because they've grown up around this sort of stuff and are also susceptible to instantly writing off a woman's anger.

I haven't experienced any lab drama...although, I haven't worked in a lab for 30 years and that apparently discredits my statement.
 
I was going to talk about this African American researcher with big shoes, but now I feel like I'd just be a huge dick for doing so.
 
If you don't want to be pegged as a "sensitive" or "vicious" female then stop giving off the persona. Letting these "little comments" get to you, like they clearly are right now, doesn't help your argument at all. So far all I've seen is passive-aggressive comments and a lot of hostility over a miniscule remark.
 
wtf just happened to my thread. Back to point, my PI assured me on several occasions after I did a summer of grunt work of autoclave, cleaning, storage, and all that for 20+ hours a week and unpaid that I would have my own project this semester. What happened is my PI gave the project to a new undergraduate who just entered in the lab last week.
My reaction = :boom:

I'm enrolled in 2 credits for the research so I can't quit and now I'm working under a graduate student who's been in the lab for only a year. The arguments got pretty heated but nothing extreme and I'm wondering whats the best course of action.
 
timer said:
wtf just happened to my thread. Back to point, my PI assured me on several occasions after I did a summer of grunt work of autoclave, cleaning, storage, and all that for 20+ hours a week and unpaid that I would have my own project this semester. What happened is my PI gave the project to a new undergraduate who just entered in the lab last week.
My reaction = :boom:

I'm enrolled in 2 credits for the research so I can't quit and now I'm working under a graduate student who's been in the lab for only a year. The arguments got pretty heated but nothing extreme and I'm wondering whats the best course of action.
Click to expand...
Without knowing more, I'd be upset too to be honest. I don't know how hard URA positions are to come by at your university but if I was in your position I would start looking for a lab that uses similar techniques.

Did your PI say anything as to why he have the project to the newer undergrad?
 
Spitphire said:
If you don't want to be pegged as a "sensitive" or "vicious" female then stop giving off the persona. Letting these "little comments" get to you, like they clearly are right now, doesn't help your argument at all. So far all I've seen is passive-aggressive comments and a lot of hostility over a miniscule remark.
Click to expand...

I'm being pegged as a sensitive and vicious female simply because I'm a woman who dares to speak up. A gave a clear explanation of why I thought Goro's comment was inappropriate, so I'm not sure what your definition of passive aggression is. My entire argument is that these aren't just "little comments," so I'm also not sure where you thought you were going with that one. Perhaps Goro should send his MCAT verbal good luck vibes to you instead. Anyways, I know my feelings are valid so I don't need another sexist like you to validate them for me. I'll leave timer to his/her post because there's no arguing with people whose views are stuck in the past.
 
Goro said:
Nope. The incident did lower my respect for Harvard significantly though.

Here's one more story: CH, a grad student in the lab, kept stealing technician JNH's supply of tissue culture media. JHN finally started spiking her media with azide (and kept good media in a differently labelled bottle), and CH's cells started dying. CH stopped borrowing the media after that and made her own.

At another time, JHN hid the scintillation counter racks because she didn't like something CH or I did!

I've noticed that women in the lab tend to be more vicious to each other...an effect I call "estrogen poisoning".
Click to expand...

Yikes! That is sabotage, haven't people heard of this feature (common to even primal animals) known as C-O-M-M-U-N-I-C-A-T-I-O-N? LOL.

neurotroph said:
Wow...you spout this sexist BS and you're supposed to be an adcom?
Click to expand...

I understand how you perceived the comment to be insensitive and maybe conducive to discrimination in the workplace, but I am familiar with what Goro has described. I'm in a very nice lab and we're all ladies, but my general understanding is that girls are generally more likely to be passive aggressive ("vicious") whereas boys are more upfront with their aggression. In lab stories I've heard I particularly feel that guys generally stay out of drama. I don't attribute the female behavior to hormones and I doubt Goro really meant it that way either, but it's a general social construct among females I think. We're very social creatures in general and this can lead to deep, thoughtful understandings as well as conflicts. Of course this is a generalization and I always judge a person for his/her person without stereotyping etc. but there's a reason why in high school (where people are generally immature) rival boys can get physical/very vocal with other whereas girls spread rumors/act catty. It's not just our conditioning in society but female brains are GENERALLY wired to be less confrontational and maybe more dramatic.
 
neurotroph said:
Well this is something that's evident in the media too; it's not just from people I know irl. Not to mention how people go on and on about how menopause affects female behavior but rarely acknowledge how decreasing testosterone levels can affect behavior in aging males. This mindset has definitely stunted research in the field.

To bring the thread back on topic, I've been in an all-female lab for 2 years and have never experienced real drama. One time the other undergrad in my lab used to use my pipette tips when she ran out instead of just getting another box for herself, and once I told her that it was an inconvenience for me (because boxes would disappear from my bench and whatnot) that was that. The most "drama" was when a man from a neighboring lab kept messing with our equipment. Go figure.
Click to expand...

neurotroph said:
I'm being pegged as a sensitive and vicious female simply because I'm a woman who dares to speak up. A gave a clear explanation of why I thought Goro's comment was inappropriate, so I'm not sure what your definition of passive aggression is. My entire argument is that these aren't just "little comments," so I'm also not sure where you thought you were going with that one. Perhaps Goro should send his MCAT verbal good luck vibes to you instead. Anyways, I know my feelings are valid so I don't need another sexist like you to validate them for me. I'll leave timer to his/her post because there's no arguing with people whose views are stuck in the past.
Click to expand...
ranger%20here%20you%20go.jpg
 
"Anyone here have stories of SDN drama? "

By the minute


"How common is it to have arguments with others on SDN?"

About as common as taking a breath


" Did I jeopardize my SDN membership by starting this thread?"

Nah, no worries.
 
Well...this thread went south pretty fast.
 
To give JHN her due, she told CH multiple times to make and/or use her own media. CH was a really dense, clueless and selfish person. She ended up taking a MS...we couldn't wait to get rid of her.


Yikes! That is sabotage, haven't people heard of this feature (common to even primal animals) known as C-O-M-M-U-N-I-C-A-T-I-O-N? LOL.
 
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Goro said:
Nope. The incident did lower my respect for Harvard significantly though.

Here's one more story: CH, a grad student in the lab, kept stealing technician JNH's supply of tissue culture media. JHN finally started spiking her media with azide (and kept good media in a differently labelled bottle), and CH's cells started dying. CH stopped borrowing the media after that and made her own.

At another time, JHN hid the scintillation counter racks because she didn't like something CH or I did!

I've noticed that women in the lab tend to be more vicious to each other...an effect I call "estrogen poisoning".
Click to expand...
I have not gotten into a "drama" with any lab partners or even classmates since freshman year of high school (maybe as early as middle school).

The phD wanted the scopes... Fine, I took night shifts and came to lab from 8 pm - 4 am. I had everything I wanted and no one needs to fight.

I taught high school for a bit - I do not understand why girls fought either... I don't get why many fights/drama happen.

The closest to drama I had was my boyfriend at the time worked in a lab next door. When we broke up, we stopped going to lunch together - that was it. :/
 
Goro said:
Nope. The incident did lower my respect for Harvard significantly though.

Here's one more story: CH, a grad student in the lab, kept stealing technician JNH's supply of tissue culture media. JHN finally started spiking her media with azide (and kept good media in a differently labelled bottle), and CH's cells started dying. CH stopped borrowing the media after that and made her own.

At another time, JHN hid the scintillation counter racks because she didn't like something CH or I did!

I've noticed that women in the lab tend to be more vicious to each other...an effect I call "estrogen poisoning".
Click to expand...
SO TRUE. Joined a lab sophomore year with all women (except 1 guy). I thought everything was going fine (and confirmed with the RA many times), until the end of the semester, when one of the other girls there told me that all the other girls in the lab were **** talking me and that the the RA would "recommend" a "bad" grade to the PI for me. Now, I knew that I would have issues with the RA the moment we met. RA didn't like how PI had allowed me to "join the lab so quickly" and how PI made RA in charge of me, which meant more time "wasted" to "pointlessly" train me). Anyways, the girl (the only angel there) informed me that she was also disgusted at RA's behavior and the lab's endless gossip: all the other women in the lab crap talked the PI 24/7 every time she left the room. Then they would crap talk each other when one of them left the room. In the end, I learned then and there to demand a syllabus or some sort of "coursework" guideline so I don't get screwed over again by ambiguous/subjective grading. Tears were shed, and I actually ended up arguing with the PI at how unfair and how misleading RA was and PI ended up agreeing... 1 month later. BTW, as for the 1 guy in the lab, RA adored him and always gave him free passes. He skipped lab many times, wouldn't stop talking/gossip, and she'd always cover his ass and give him a "glowing" report. Ugh.

So yes, imo, women are more vicious to each other (I've heard other stories as well). Overall, horrible lab experience and never looked back.
 
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galaxyandstars said:
SO TRUE. Joined a lab sophomore year with all women (except 1 guy). I thought everything was going fine (and confirmed with the RA many times), until the end of the semester, when one of the other girls there told me that all the other girls in the lab were **** talking me and that the the RA would "recommend" a "bad" grade to the PI for me. Now, I knew that I would have issues with the RA the moment we met. RA didn't like how PI had allowed me to "join the lab so quickly" and how PI made RA in charge of me, which meant more time "wasted" to "pointlessly" train me). Anyways, the girl (the only angel there) informed me that she was also disgusted at RA's behavior and the lab's endless gossip: all the other women in the lab crap talked the PI 24/7 every time she left the room. Then they would crap talk each other when one of them left the room. In the end, I learned then and there to demand a syllabus or some sort of "coursework" guideline so I don't get screwed over again by ambiguous/subjective grading. Tears were shed, and I actually ended up arguing with the PI at how unfair and how misleading RA was and PI ended up agreeing... 1 month later. BTW, as for the 1 guy in the lab, RA adored him and always gave him free passes. He skipped lab many times, wouldn't stop talking/gossip, and she'd always cover his ass and give him a "glowing" report. Ugh.

So yes, imo, women are more vicious to each other (I've heard other stories as well). Overall, horrible lab experience and never looked back.
Click to expand...

Wow, I didn't really think of it at the time, but there is one post-doc in my lab who **** talks allll the time. If she doesn't like you, good luck, because it's an uphill battle once the PI's favorite postdoc starts telling him all these bad things about you and your work. It's honestly my least favorite and most stressful thing about my lab, is always trying to gauge how that postdoc feels about me. And now she has a new postdoc friend (postdoc #2) that also enjoys the attention knowing she's postdoc #1's favorite. At first, I thought they were so close because they were both postdocs, but no... Seems to be a sort of "clique mentality" the newest postdoc (postdoc #3) is always getting shafted. When postdoc #2 came, postdoc #1 took her to lunch everyday, helped drive her for groceries, helped her move in to her apartment... Poor postdoc #3 gets no attention whatsoever, had to rent a car just to move her stuff into her apartment since no one was kind enough to help... Just little things that makes it very apparent that postdoc #1 will only help you if she likes you and postdoc #2 will follow postdoc #1's lead. They way they spoke about postdoc #3 before she even arrived made me think she was a little nutso, but she's actually totally normal and really sweet.
 
Goro said:
I haven't even told y'all about HR, a venomous student in my post-doc lab. A visiting Mexican Scientist and I would call her "La Serpiente".
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Aye aye aye! No beuno! Still a female, so it's oppressive. Racists jokes at males only or GTFO.
 
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