Lab with only a PI and grad students?

[jackshepard]

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I'm just about to accept a position to a lab, but want to make sure there isn't a hidden "deal breaker" that I don't know about.

First off: I absolutely love the research they are doing, and the lab members were extremely nice, approachable, and excited about me joining. I was told I could have my own project after one semester and pubs were possible given the right level of dedication and and motivation. In addition, the PI is nearly always at the lab (7 days a week).

The two issues in question:

1. The PI is not a native speaker of English. It is not to a level that totally impedes communication of thoughts or ideas, but you can tell it is sometimes unnatural and not to a native level.

2. The lab personnel consist of only two grad students and the PI. From the sounds of it, I would be working under a grad student primarily.

This probably sounds like neuroticism, because it looks like a dream offer to me, but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks!

 

[ComfortCreature]

Sounds like a nice small group, which isn't a bad thing at all. My last lab position only had the PI, one grad student, and a tech. Still ended up with publications etc- learned a lot very fast.

 

[DAPI]

Depending on the PI, a non-native's letter of recommendation could be a disaster in terms of spelling and grammatical errors and not knowing what to put in it in to make it a very strong letter.

That would be my greatest concern here.

 

[IncognitoGuy]

Depending on the PI, a non-native's letter of recommendation could be a disaster in terms of spelling and grammatical errors and not knowing what to put in it in to make it a very strong letter.

That would be my greatest concern here.

I would say that if OP will be working under a grad student primarily, then they would probably co-write a LOR with the PI. So hopefully the grad student knows what they're doing.

 

[magicm]

this could be both a good or bad thing

I personally wouldn't be concerned by the english thing as long as you can converse with your PI your fine.

On the small lab side is where i would look

on the good side Small labs present interesting opportunities: mainly you will see your PI often so they can help you if you need it, You will likely get your own project and get to drive it therefore likely to get a 1st or 2nd author paper (depending on how committed you are). and they can be great place to learn

On the other hand: there are less people there to help you with day to day stuff and general lab maintenance so you cant focus as much on your work. There are less people which means less backgrounds to draw from, (in my lab we have 1 biochemist, 1 bioinformatician, 1 mathmatician/biologist, 1 vet, 1 bioinformatician/microbiologist and thats just the grad students all of which can help eachother and act as a resource for specific fields)
This is the big one in a large lab if you find a project and you don't match you can transition to a different one that better suits you in a small lab there aren't usually as many projects so these chances are smaller.

Also I wonder why the prof only has 2 grad students? is it a funding thing, did they just go on sabatical, are they new and so not as well established or do they just not take many students

 

[jackshepard]

this could be both a good or bad thing

I personally wouldn't be concerned by the english thing as long as you can converse with your PI your fine.

On the small lab side is where i would look

on the good side Small labs present interesting opportunities: mainly you will see your PI often so they can help you if you need it, You will likely get your own project and get to drive it therefore likely to get a 1st or 2nd author paper (depending on how committed you are). and they can be great place to learn

On the other hand: there are less people there to help you with day to day stuff and general lab maintenance so you cant focus as much on your work. There are less people which means less backgrounds to draw from, (in my lab we have 1 biochemist, 1 bioinformatician, 1 mathmatician/biologist, 1 vet, 1 bioinformatician/microbiologist and thats just the grad students all of which can help eachother and act as a resource for specific fields)
This is the big one in a large lab if you find a project and you don't match you can transition to a different one that better suits you in a small lab there aren't usually as many projects so these chances are smaller.

Also I wonder why the prof only has 2 grad students? is it a funding thing, did they just go on sabatical, are they new and so not as well established or do they just not take many students

They said that they are working on a large number of projects, so I'm not too worried about finding one which suits me. When it comes to the small number of grad students, I do not know. However, this lab has been established and under the same PI for over a decade, so it's not a matter of getting established.

I honestly think my largest concern is the letter of reccomendation with potentially spotty English. And since I'll be there 3 years, the grad student could potentially leave by then?

 

[magicm]

After the first year you should be self sufficient, and able to extra methods from papers with minimal help.

I wouldn't drop a lab because you are concerned that the prof might not be able to write, my best reference letters came from native and ESL speakers in contrast my worst written reference came from someone who was educated in the UK. If you are really concerned pull up some of his first author papers and see how his writing is

 

[Medstart108]

After the first year you should be self sufficient, and able to extra methods from papers with minimal help.

I wouldn't drop a lab because you are concerned that the prof might not be able to write, my best reference letters came from native and ESL speakers in contrast my worst written reference came from someone who was educated in the UK. If you are really concerned pull up some of his first author papers and see how his writing is

The UK is not accustomed to overinflating reference letters or grades like NA does. In the US outstanding means above average and the best student i have ever worked with means outstanding. In the UK outstanding means just what it is. Same with grades, few get over 70% in high school.

 

[Ismet]

I say go for it. My PI was from Spain and had a very thick accent and occasionally misused words, but for the most part it was fairly easy to communicate. My experience was a little different in that it was just me and 2 other undergrads, but having a small lab is extremely beneficial. Sure you'll be doing work under the grad students for a while, but if your PI is open to it, you'll probably be able to work your way up and even get to work on your own branch of the project.

 

[lcck]

Look at the PI's publication history. That's very important.

 

[qwe7791]

Sounds like a nice small group, which isn't a bad thing at all. My last lab position only had the PI, one grad student, and a tech. Still ended up with publications etc- learned a lot very fast.

What is the process like for getting a publication?

 

[magicm]

The UK is not accustomed to overinflating reference letters or grades like NA does. In the US outstanding means above average and the best student i have ever worked with means outstanding. In the UK outstanding means just what it is. Same with grades, few get over 70% in high school.

oh I understand the UK mentality it was just written more like a business reference then an academic one. It was also on a confidential project so he wasn't able to describe what i did so much but he did offer me a job so i had to be above average

 

[magicm]

What is the process like for getting a publication?

Step 1: Do alot of science
Step 2: find something novel with your science
Step 3: show your PI (bring completed figures)
Step 4: show your PI a storyboard with your figures
Step 5: write paper and send it to you PI
Step 6: get PI comments on your paper and return to step 5 (repeat about 5-10 times)
Step 7: submit to journal
Step 8: get Reviewer number threes comments and return to step 5 (i tried to find a good reviewer number three gif but couldn't find one in time)

 

[ComfortCreature]

What is the process like for getting a publication?

It can be grueling, but not necessarily. At our lab group meetings, we'd discuss any new data and my PI asked if we had enough to publish- then we worked on the paper, worked on the the revisions, and finally got it published. Lots of back and forth emails with everyone involved for edits, additions, etc. The grad student was very helpful in the writing process, especially with getting things started.

 

[gmoneytalks]

I'm just about to accept a position to a lab, but want to make sure there isn't a hidden "deal breaker" that I don't know about.

First off: I absolutely love the research they are doing, and the lab members were extremely nice, approachable, and excited about me joining. I was told I could have my own project after one semester and pubs were possible given the right level of dedication and and motivation. In addition, the PI is nearly always at the lab (7 days a week).

The two issues in question:

1. The PI is not a native speaker of English. It is not to a level that totally impedes communication of thoughts or ideas, but you can tell it is sometimes unnatural and not to a native level.

2. The lab personnel consist of only two grad students and the PI. From the sounds of it, I would be working under a grad student primarily.

This probably sounds like neuroticism, because it looks like a dream offer to me, but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks!

Haha, welcome to the world of research in America. In other countries, research is prized and it looks good for you and your family. Here, no one cares (unless you make money off your research, which is rare.) Don't expect PI's to be native speakers. It sounds like you're going into a good situation.