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Ibn Alnafis MD

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Hi everyone,

1. Can someone give me some an insight about the Primary Care accelerated program at lecom? their requirements? how many students get admitted every year? tuition? and accreditation?

2. Do ob/gyn and em fall under Primary Care?

thanx
 

PunkmedGirl

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Hi everyone,

1. Can someone give me some an insight about the Primary Care accelerated program at lecom? their requirements? how many students get admitted every year? tuition? and accreditation?

2. Do ob/gyn and em fall under Primary Care?

thanx
Read the LECOM-Erie thread starting on page three and you should find most of the information that you are looking for. OB/GYN is considered primary care but I don't think EM is.
 

iowafarmstud

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Hi everyone,

1. Can someone give me some an insight about the Primary Care accelerated program at lecom? their requirements? how many students get admitted every year? tuition? and accreditation?

2. Do ob/gyn and em fall under Primary Care?

thanx

1. They will accept about 6-8 students this year. Requirements: get accepted, then apply for program. Your "scholarship" is that there is no tuition 4th year...so you still pay for 3 years. Yes, it's accredited

2. OB/GYN is primary care....HOWEVER, you can't do it through this pathway...you have to do IM, FM or Peds...so you have to be interested in one of those three or it's a no go.

Hope this helps.
 
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Nasem

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I've read about this program before.... since I have my mind set on IM from now, this is going to be one of my #1 picks,

I do have a question though, are there any other schools that offer similar accelerated programs (MD or DO) ?
 

engineeredout

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I've read about this program before.... since I have my mind set on IM from now, this is going to be one of my #1 picks,

I do have a question though, are there any other schools that offer similar accelerated programs (MD or DO) ?
Keep in mind they told us that part of the contract is that you don't further specialize, except in OMM. Ex: You couldn't do a fellowship in nephrology or cardiology without breaking the contract.
 

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I've read about this program before.... since I have my mind set on IM from now, this is going to be one of my #1 picks,

I do have a question though, are there any other schools that offer similar accelerated programs (MD or DO) ?
Duke has a three year program without restrictions.
 

DrMom

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I've read about this program before.... since I have my mind set on IM from now, this is going to be one of my #1 picks,
I'd be hesitant about being locked in. My top 3 specialty choices on entering med school were IM, FM, and OB. I had spent a lot of time shadowing and working for physicians, so I felt well informed about these specialties. Once I got into things IM and FM turned out to be areas I completely hated (truly my bottom choices of specialties) and OB wasn't too far behind.

It would be awful to be locked into something that you end up disliking. If you go the normal route you'll still have all of your options available.
 

Live4Life

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Duke...is that an MD program? how many students they accept/year?
It is still a four year program because you have to do a dual degree program or a year of research. It is a top 5 MD program and the class size is about 100.
 

Nasem

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Keep in mind they told us that part of the contract is that you don't further specialize, except in OMM. Ex: You couldn't do a fellowship in nephrology or cardiology without breaking the contract.
Really? I did not know that, in that case, I highly doubt I'd want to do it then.

As far as Duke goes, thats a top tier med school (north carolina I think), with my non-traditional numbers, I HIGHLY doubt they'll even ask me for a secondary yet alone an acceptance.

Oh well, I am sticking with the traditional route, whats another year anyways, right
 

NurWollen

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I believe that the LECOM 3-year program required you to practice in primary care for 5 years, after which, if you do IM, you'd be free to do a cardiology, GI, etc. fellowship . If I'm not mistaken...
 

amindwalker

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I am in the Primary Care Scholars Pathway at LECOM, class of 2010. It is the best pathway on campus IMO. There are only 4 of us in my class, and it truly feels as though LECOM is very commited to helping us succeed. It is a very streamlined method of learning, and I absolutely love it. IM, FP, & Peds are the choices and you commit to 5 years in primary care following residency. After that, you could do what you want.

The PCSP class of 2011 has 8 students in it, and the next crew (Beginning in the fall of '09, class of 2012), will have 10 seats available. The program is fully accredited and you will save one year of tuition and living expenses (~$50K). You can subspecialize in OMM and/or Geriatrics. It is not a dual degree program, and there is no time for research. It goes year round (I'm on campus right now studying for my GI exam on New Year's Eve). If you are certain that you want to do IM, FP, or Peds, I highly recommend PCSP.
 

Ibn Alnafis MD

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I am in the Primary Care Scholars Pathway at LECOM, class of 2010. It is the best pathway on campus IMO. There are only 4 of us in my class, and it truly feels as though LECOM is very commited to helping us succeed. It is a very streamlined method of learning, and I absolutely love it. IM, FP, & Peds are the choices and you commit to 5 years in primary care following residency. After that, you could do what you want.

The PCSP class of 2011 has 8 students in it, and the next crew (Beginning in the fall of '09, class of 2012), will have 10 seats available. The program is fully accredited and you will save one year of tuition and living expenses (~$50K). You can subspecialize in OMM and/or Geriatrics. It is not a dual degree program, and there is no time for research. It goes year round (I'm on campus right now studying for my GI exam on New Year's Eve). If you are certain that you want to do IM, FP, or Peds, I highly recommend PCSP.
thank you for the response.

I was wondering since neontology is a pediatrics subspecialty, are pcsp grads permitted to undergo that fellowship?

One last question, what kind of gpa or achademic requirments are required to get into the pcsp program?
 
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amindwalker

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Unlike the other pathways at LECOM (which are selected/assigned at the time of acceptance), PCSP candidates are selected during week 12. Your undergrad GPA & MCAT scores will not be relevant at all (once you get to med school, everyone is considered equal with a clean slate). The candidates for the program will attend 2 or 3 meetings/month where they will interact with the program directors (1 clinical DO & 1 pre-clinical PhD) as well as each other. The main thing is to weed-out people who are not truly dedicated to primary care, and to select those who are passionate about it. The final cut does have a lot to do with your 1st semester med school grades up to that point.

Neonatology is not an option until your 5 year commitment is up. They really are not going to be interested in someone who wants to sub-specialize
 

Nasem

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amindwalker, Thank you for informing us

I am esspecially impressed with how they pick thier candidates for the program, so bascially, you start first semester @ LECOM as a traditional 4-year med student, and according to those meetings you attend and how well you perform on your first semester, will determine if you get in or not....

and regarding the 5 year commitment after residency, its not bad at all, I think its pretty fair, but I think we pre-meds better be darn sure PCP is what we want to get our selves into
 

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Here's a previous post of mine that should clarify some things:


From James Moore, LECOM-E's Director of Recruiting (paraphrased):

Acceptable Specialties:
--Family Practice
--Internal Medicine
--Pediatrics
--Gerontology
--OB-GYN

Details:
--Sign an agreement to complete the program and practice for at least 5 years as a primary care physician (PCP) in the aforementioned specialties
--If you break the agreement, your only punishment is that you must pay LECOM the fourth year of tuition (approximately $25K)
--16 clinical rotations instead 24
--Some non primary care and elective rotations are eliminated
 

Chocolate Bear

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The only thing that is wrong with the above is that OB-GYN and Gerontology are not a part of this program at the present time; only IM, Peds, and FM.
Well, from the horse's mouth (Dr. James Moore), these are acceptable options. Perhaps the contract is changing for c/o 2013. Do you have any reason to believe that it isn't?
 

mooman

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Well, from the horse's mouth (Dr. James Moore), these are acceptable options. Perhaps the contract is changing for c/o 2013. Do you have any reason to believe that it isn't?

Yes; I have talked with Dr. Moore, as well as students who are in the program and it is as I have stated. Could you have misread/misunderstood? Or, since it is relatively new, maybe the info was given to you before the program was solidified?
 

Chocolate Bear

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Yes; I have talked with Dr. Moore, as well as students who are in the program and it is as I have stated. Could you have misread/misunderstood? Or, since it is relatively new, maybe the info was given to you before the program was solidified?
The correspondence was during the current application cycle. He laid out the acceptable fields in no uncertain terms, just as I listed them.

May I ask when you spoke with him, exactly, and what his exact words were?

Just for background, I spoke with him on several occasions about curricular specifics. I wasn't just some random applicant calling him to ask a question.
 

mooman

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The correspondence was during the current application cycle. He laid out the acceptable fields in no uncertain terms, just as I listed them.

May I ask when you spoke with him, exactly, and what his exact words were?

Just for background, I spoke with him on several occasions about curricular specifics. I wasn't just some random applicant calling him to ask a question.

Sure; two weeks ago. I called him (since I had received an email from him) and I asked specifically about the PCSP program. He said exactly what you have outlined. The only difference between what he said and your post was the fact that OB-GYN and Gerontology were not included. Maybe he only gave me a partial list? He also gave me a current PCSP student's email address to contact if I had further questions. I guess I will email him for futher clarification.
 

Chocolate Bear

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Sure; two weeks ago. I called him (since I had received an email from him) and I asked specifically about the PCSP program. He said exactly what you have outlined. The only difference between what he said and your post was the fact that OB-GYN and Gerontology were not included. Maybe he only gave me a partial list? He also gave me a current PCSP student's email address to contact if I had further questions. I guess I will email him for futher clarification.
Very interesting. Please ask specifically about those two specialties, and let us know what he says.

FWIW, OB-GYN and Gerontology are often cited as primary care, as they are unspecialized, and work as the primary defense for a huge subset of patients. Females and the elderly need primary care, just like kids do, and Peds is listed as acceptable.
 

engineeredout

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FWIW, OB-GYN and Gerontology are often cited as primary care, as they are unspecialized, and work as the primary defense for a huge subset of patients. Females and the elderly need primary care, just like kids do, and Peds is listed as acceptable.
I remember them saying on interview day this counted for PCSP too. Weird.
 
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mooman

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I quickly received a reply. The only specialties covered in PCSP are IM, Peds, and FM. He (the current student) actually sent me this from the 2008-2009 LECOM student handbook:

PRIMARY CARE SCHOLARS PATHWAY
The Primary Care Scholars Pathway (PCSP) is intended for those students who have a dedicated commitment to primary care medicine. The specific specialties outlined under the PCSP include family practice, internal medicine, and pediatrics.
Students in the PCSP program complete the requirements for the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree in three years. The mechanism for achieving a three-year curriculum is by shortening the summer vacation to 2 weeks. Additionally, the number of clinical rotations is reduced to 16. By omitting some elective and selective rotations, the focus of the clinical training is on primary care medicine.

I hope this helps to clarify things.
 

Chocolate Bear

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I quickly received a reply. The only specialties covered in PCSP are IM, Peds, and FM. He (the current student) actually sent me this from the 2008-2009 LECOM student handbook:

PRIMARY CARE SCHOLARS PATHWAY
The Primary Care Scholars Pathway (PCSP) is intended for those students who have a dedicated commitment to primary care medicine. The specific specialties outlined under the PCSP include family practice, internal medicine, and pediatrics.
Students in the PCSP program complete the requirements for the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree in three years. The mechanism for achieving a three-year curriculum is by shortening the summer vacation to 2 weeks. Additionally, the number of clinical rotations is reduced to 16. By omitting some elective and selective rotations, the focus of the clinical training is on primary care medicine.

I hope this helps to clarify things.
Perhaps the program has recently been modified to accept the other two specialties, as well. I say this because your source of clarification was a current student. I'm curious to know what Dr. Moore/the Administration has to say.
 

amindwalker

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It's just IM, FP, or Peds. I'm a current 2nd year student in PCSP (class of 2010). Nothing has changed, that is the way it has always been. If anyone was told otherwise by anyone, it was in error. It is true that OB is often considered primary care, and it could be said that LECOM grads that go into OB are entering primary care. It is just not an option for PCSP, nor has it ever been, sorry.
 

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You have to care about people and be passionate about primary care medicine. Ideally, you need a good personality (Dr. House wouldn't get in). They want to know that you are good with people and not just another intelligent jerk. It would be best if you were to rock your 1st 3 months of med school though.
 

mooman

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amindwalker is correct, for the most part; it's just those three specialties for now. I spoke with Dr. Moore today and asked him about the mixup. He said that with the opening of the wellness center and the residencies and fellowships available in gerontology that it will be included for this incoming class (class of 2013). OB-GYN is not included because of the lack of residencies available in the Erie area, but may be included in the program in "a few years".
He then suggested I call Dr. Ortoski, one of the directors of the program if I had further questions. I did, and he reiterated what Dr. Moore had just told me... so we now have it from the director of the program: PCSP (for now) includes IM, Peds, FP, and Gerontology.
 

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Isn't IM the pathway to other subspecialties(GI, ID, cardio)? How do you know students are really going into IM and not using it was a means to another end?
 

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amindwalker is correct, for the most part; it's just those three specialties for now. I spoke with Dr. Moore today and asked him about the mixup. He said that with the opening of the wellness center and the residencies and fellowships available in gerontology that it will be included for this incoming class (class of 2013). OB-GYN is not included because of the lack of residencies available in the Erie area, but may be included in the program in "a few years".
He then suggested I call Dr. Ortoski, one of the directors of the program if I had further questions. I did, and he reiterated what Dr. Moore had just told me... so we now have it from the director of the program: PCSP (for now) includes IM, Peds, FP, and Gerontology.
Facts! They're what I like to see around here.

Thanks for helping to clear things up! :thumbup:
 

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No problem. I wanted to find out myself, since it seems like a great program. Now that I know more about it, it certainly seems like it is worth considering...
 

amindwalker

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As I mentioned earlier, Gerontology and OMT are the only subspecialties available for PCSP. Gerontology is a fellowship after FP or IM residency. OMT is a fellowship after IM, Peds, or during/after FP residency.
 

igcgnerd

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Does the 5 year requirement fro practicing primary care include residency? If it did theoreticly you could practice 2 yeas after residency and then do whatever you want. Even if it didn't 5 years isn't that long.
 

amindwalker

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It's 5 years post residency.
 

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does lecom bradenton offers pcsp or is it only at erie?
Only at Erie, unless the new Seton Hill campus picked up the program. LECOM-B is only PBL, which is a separate track from PCSP.
 

punkiedad

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I am pretty sure it is just at LECOM - Erie.....
 

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Nah seton hill is PBL only, nothing else.
Thanks for the info. Do they have any plans on eventually instituting separate tracks like Erie or are they and Bradenton going to both be PBL-only forever?
 

engineeredout

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Thanks for the info. Do they have any plans on eventually instituting separate tracks like Erie or are they and Bradenton going to both be PBL-only forever?
They didn't mention making any changes. Doesn't seem like they would either, considering PBL is the track that apparently gets filled up first at Erie.
 
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