What's the view on these large group practices? We recently had a seminar given to us by a large midwest group practice trying to recruit new dentists. Anyone out there belong to one? The guaranteed compensation is enticing but the scary thing is that you own nothing (and I don't think you will ever be able to). Any remarks on the subject would be appreciated.
Large Group Practices
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A lot of them went belly up. But there is one that is very successful and is located in Southern Illinois. Inc. magazine picked the CEO (a dentist) as a visionary. He is doing a great job from what I hear and they have a gazillion practices. It seems like the new graduates work for the for a few years and then buy their own practices. I don't think it's a bad idea..
They are Heartland
http://www.heartlanddentalcare.com/
They are Heartland
http://www.heartlanddentalcare.com/
Thisisit-
Thanks for the post. Heartland was the group I was talking about (they gave the lunch-n-learn). I might end up in Illinois so they appealed to me. I am just skeptical- what stops them from canning you because you're not busting your rear end like the new dental grad they just hired? Do you compete against fellow associates? Sounds stressfull to me. I would also believe they would make it difficult for you to set up your own practice after a few years (non-competive rule or whatever that is). I'll have to look into whether they allow you to buy in or not. From what I remember for the lunch-n-learn, it was no. Thanks for the link.
Thanks for the post. Heartland was the group I was talking about (they gave the lunch-n-learn). I might end up in Illinois so they appealed to me. I am just skeptical- what stops them from canning you because you're not busting your rear end like the new dental grad they just hired? Do you compete against fellow associates? Sounds stressfull to me. I would also believe they would make it difficult for you to set up your own practice after a few years (non-competive rule or whatever that is). I'll have to look into whether they allow you to buy in or not. From what I remember for the lunch-n-learn, it was no. Thanks for the link.
The whole concept is that most dentist do not like to deal with the paper-work aspect of the whole thing. So they will give you about $150k while you produce $500K (just examples). They are very efficient and can make out with 50% or less overhead. This will leave them a $100k. Not too shabby. Multiply that by100 dentists (how many do they have?) and you get a cool 10 mil a year net!!!
I'm not too sure how the competition works but I'm sure you will have a big contract to sign to prevent you from practicing in that area. I'm not worried. I already have 200 dentists in my town. What's another 20. Competition does not scare me.
I'm not too sure how the competition works but I'm sure you will have a big contract to sign to prevent you from practicing in that area. I'm not worried. I already have 200 dentists in my town. What's another 20. Competition does not scare me.
Don't forget Thisisit, you also have the almighty ADA headquarters and its 30 or so million dollar annual tax assessment in your town too
😀 My partner who goes out there once or twice a year for meetings likes to describe it like "the Deathstar" form Starwars😀
BTW, I'm one of 8 dentists in my town(15 if you count the specialists)
UT dental,
I worked for a big group right out of dental school for 5 mos. Here are my Pros and Cons
Pros:
1. You start working on patients - large px pool right away
and you see a lot of oral pathology that you might not see otherwise.
2. Good pay - At least for a new grad 100k was appealing.
Cons:
1. They push you to see more patients at quality expense - and will force you to see extra patients sometimes; even through your lunch hour.
2. Brainless work - All I did was large amalgams and extractions
They wouldn't let you do endo/pros because they had others who could do it faster (although when they interview you they tell you, that you can do anything.)
3. Hours - I worked four days a week from 7 am - 6 pm and every second saturday from 8 - 12pm
4. On call - I was on call once a month for a week; so after an 11 hour day you would get stupid phone calls at all hours of the night
I actually hated the experience I had 7 friends who worked there; one lasted only 2 months the longest lasted 10 months. The turnover in these places is outrageous. If you PM me I will give you the name of the group; its not in illinois, Wisconsin only.
I worked for a big group right out of dental school for 5 mos. Here are my Pros and Cons
Pros:
1. You start working on patients - large px pool right away
and you see a lot of oral pathology that you might not see otherwise.
2. Good pay - At least for a new grad 100k was appealing.
Cons:
1. They push you to see more patients at quality expense - and will force you to see extra patients sometimes; even through your lunch hour.
2. Brainless work - All I did was large amalgams and extractions
They wouldn't let you do endo/pros because they had others who could do it faster (although when they interview you they tell you, that you can do anything.)
3. Hours - I worked four days a week from 7 am - 6 pm and every second saturday from 8 - 12pm
4. On call - I was on call once a month for a week; so after an 11 hour day you would get stupid phone calls at all hours of the night
I actually hated the experience I had 7 friends who worked there; one lasted only 2 months the longest lasted 10 months. The turnover in these places is outrageous. If you PM me I will give you the name of the group; its not in illinois, Wisconsin only.
I have seen the recruitment letters from that large practice from Wisconsin. They still send me letters once in a while to join them 🙂
I can't believe they wouldn't let you do certain things. What if the other person messes the case up. I can understand wanting an endo doing it but another GP? That's a lot of liability. But I guess the cheese-heads don't sue their dentists as much.
Drjeff, I think that Chicago may have a higher number of dentists than 200. I don't know how many but if I were to guess I'd say somewhere in the vicinity of 4000. There is a building downtown that has 200 dentists in it. In the great flood of Chicago a few years ago (http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/tunnel_flood.html), the whole building closed down. The other dentists in the city allowed those that worked downtown to see patients in their offices until the building reopened. A great gesture I thought at the time.
If you have never attended the Chicago Dental Society's Mid-Winter meeting (this year Feb19-22) http://www.cds.org/, you've been missing the greatest dental convention in the world. It's the second largest meeting (after the ADA) but better quality of speakers and lectures. They offer so many free courses to ADA members that you can complete most of your CE requirements in the 4 days. It's also a great city to visit. Lots of fun stuff to do.
I can't believe they wouldn't let you do certain things. What if the other person messes the case up. I can understand wanting an endo doing it but another GP? That's a lot of liability. But I guess the cheese-heads don't sue their dentists as much.
Drjeff, I think that Chicago may have a higher number of dentists than 200. I don't know how many but if I were to guess I'd say somewhere in the vicinity of 4000. There is a building downtown that has 200 dentists in it. In the great flood of Chicago a few years ago (http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/tunnel_flood.html), the whole building closed down. The other dentists in the city allowed those that worked downtown to see patients in their offices until the building reopened. A great gesture I thought at the time.
If you have never attended the Chicago Dental Society's Mid-Winter meeting (this year Feb19-22) http://www.cds.org/, you've been missing the greatest dental convention in the world. It's the second largest meeting (after the ADA) but better quality of speakers and lectures. They offer so many free courses to ADA members that you can complete most of your CE requirements in the 4 days. It's also a great city to visit. Lots of fun stuff to do.
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I thought Yankee Dental was the 2nd biggest after ADA. I assume DrJeff goes to that one since it's around the corner and close by.
I could be wrong. they used to tell us that in dental school. he web site only says one of the largest. Can you say marketing a product?
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As a potential patient, the only positive feature that I have noticed about the large group practice in my area is that it offers a very good deal on orthodontic work ($1,000 per patient max out of pocket for the full meal deal). I don't know about the quality of service that one gets for $1,000, but I understand the logic. Orthodontia is likely the most long term cost effective dental procedure that parents can procure for their kids. However, many parents balk at the intitial outlay needed to obtain orthodontics in a private practice setting because of budget constraints and/or short term outllook. The philosophy of the group practice is to use orthodontics as a loss leader. Once the teeth are well spaced, the hope is that one can educate the patients so they will buy into a sound preventative maintenance program which includes good daily oral hygiene habits supplemented by regular check ups at the dental office.
The patient management logic of a group practice makes sense, but I tried one many years ago to my regret. I had a miserable experience with a root canal and it was very obvious to me that the young dentist assigned to me was not at all happy working in the environment in which he found himself. He constantly expressed his exasperation about not having the proper equipment and supplies on hand to do his work. I did not stay long with the group practice. I doubt that the young dentist did either.
As a side note, I also have to wonder about the business aspects of using orthodontics as a loss leader. I would think that some folks who are given a choice of dental insurance programs by their employers might be tempted to take adantage of the group practice orthdontics deal and then switch to an indemity plan during the next open season.
The patient management logic of a group practice makes sense, but I tried one many years ago to my regret. I had a miserable experience with a root canal and it was very obvious to me that the young dentist assigned to me was not at all happy working in the environment in which he found himself. He constantly expressed his exasperation about not having the proper equipment and supplies on hand to do his work. I did not stay long with the group practice. I doubt that the young dentist did either.
As a side note, I also have to wonder about the business aspects of using orthodontics as a loss leader. I would think that some folks who are given a choice of dental insurance programs by their employers might be tempted to take adantage of the group practice orthdontics deal and then switch to an indemity plan during the next open season.
I have no clue where Yankee ranks size wise overall, I just know that its BIG, and alot of fun to attend. I'll be there with bells on
, and the crazy bunch of "missfits" that I call my staff in a few weeks .It's one of the orale boosting events that my partner and I take the staff too each and every year. We'll put them in in a hotel, take them out for dinner and some "fun on the town" (read as the consumption of some "adult" beverages
😀 ) and then pay for the CE courses that they take. We then again repeat this for the CT State dental association meeting each and every year. My partner and I are also throwing around the idea of taking them all to the ADA meeting in a few years(definately the next time its in Hawaii 😀 )Little jestures like this go a long way towards keeping staff morale high, which subsequently gives you a more productive and happier work envirnoment
As for meeting size, after ADA, #2 is probably a toss up between Yankee, Greater New York, The Hinman, and Chicago Mid winter. Bottom line, there all BIG meetings!
drjeff, i took my staff to SF for the ADA meeting this past year. I put them up at Grand Hyatt and was their personal tour guide (I'm from there). It's been 2 months and they are still talking about the trip. We get hotels for the Midwinter also so we don't have to drive after the dental supply company parties 🙂 The amount of loyalty you achieve by doing these kind of things for the staff is immeasurable.
Ortho, in my opinion, is the worst thing to get at these large practices. The turnover rate of the orthodontists Will have a very negative effect on the treatment plan.
Ortho, in my opinion, is the worst thing to get at these large practices. The turnover rate of the orthodontists Will have a very negative effect on the treatment plan.
