Last Chance to Turn Back

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Hope he took his extra $$$ the past 4-5 years and gained +30% in the market instead of chasing down a silly 1.8% freebie loan.

Only if last year's return is the standard. It is not.

I agree with you if the interest rate is < 2% then paying off slowly is a smart move. But if your interest is 6.8% then pay it off ASAP.
 
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Amid the chartering of new pharmacy schools, oversaturation situations, and nay sayers, I've come to a point where I am sitting on a pharmacy school acceptance.

I'm looking at my financial aid award letters, and I have a chance to throw it all away and not go into what seems like the dying field of pharmacy.

It's been a very stressful few weeks, and I hope fellow P0's can chime in about what they think?

Also anyone not a P0 is free to say anything too.

Not sure if I should really pursue this career. It's not a passion of mine, but it will pay the bills. And money matters.

you should stay in basketball (kidding).
Pharmacy was not really a passion of mine either, I pursued it after high school, and wasn't sure. I was good at math and science and figured I was not smart enough or cut for doing medical school and realized it was a financially stable job with a good pay so I stayed (my advice is to not do this if you're coming from a program straight out of high school). In the middle of my enrollment, that's when I started to hear about the saturation problem and while I was a P1, when I tried to get a job with a retail chain and hospitals, I was continually rejected. However 95% of my class had an offer and most of them are going on now to work in retail. Not all hope is lost if you plan to do retail especially. For me, it was taxing and not having an internship experience during school made it problematic for me to find a job. I suggest you start looking for a tech job ASAP if you want to do pharmacy so that they can have somewhat of a guarantee of getting a retail job (where the money is mostly at). The retail work environment is not that great, but can pay the bills. Walgreens and Target generally have better environments than CVS and Rite-Aid, but as long as you have retail experience at any retail chain, the chances of you finding work at another are generally ok. I hear mixed stories, but most people in my graduating class have secured jobs.
 
I really think everyone applying to pharmacy school should have retail experience. You don't want to get there and realize you CANNOT do this for the rest of your life. I really want to work in a hospital, but if I can't, I KNOW I can do retail fine. That's a lot of debt to be taking on to possible hate your job :-/ There are a lot less stressful jobs that still pay very well.
this is my biggest problem; I never got a retail job (but I put in a ton of effort in finding one) and actually didn't want to do pharmacy for retail at all. I did some retail in my P1 year for an IPPE and actually liked it, however my P4 year during rotations, I had a pretty bad experience due to a very mean supervisor and I know she will not write me a letter of recommendation. When I heard about residency and the ability to work clinical, that's really what kept me in pschool. I am trying to find whatever job I can now (there are some openings in the hospitals I've done my APPE at, which is giving me some hope), but with my lack of work experience, I am bracing myself for it to be tough. I've applied to some non-pharmacy jobs as well. I've considered a career change if things don't work out.
 
Amid the chartering of new pharmacy schools, oversaturation situations, and nay sayers, I've come to a point where I am sitting on a pharmacy school acceptance.

I'm looking at my financial aid award letters, and I have a chance to throw it all away and not go into what seems like the dying field of pharmacy.

It's been a very stressful few weeks, and I hope fellow P0's can chime in about what they think?

Also anyone not a P0 is free to say anything too.

Not sure if I should really pursue this career. It's not a passion of mine, but it will pay the bills. And money matters.

Ah, I've been in the same position as you have (back in 2012, for me).

Anyway, I decided to decline my Pharmacy school attendance and ended up not going due to the oversaturation. Was it a good decision? I'm not really sure. I'm not 150k in debt (as I would've been if I have gone to school). I would have finished this year if I decided to continue the PharmD. I'm currently in a BS/MS in Chemical Engineering, if it matters.

Do you know what you want to do instead? Go into a different field? For sure, Pharmacy is extremely saturated nowadays so I understand where you're coming from, as I've had to deal with the same situation.
 
I made an account specifically to reply to this thread because it worries me so much. The amount of cynical "trolls" on this forum is very unsettling. Very rarely do I comment on threads like this as I am what you would call a "leech".

Anyway, a little background information on me. Me and my long-term girlfriend (3+ years) recently graduated from a pharmacy school in the northeast. She is originally from So. Cal and I am from the northeast but we both decided to go to So Cal together. She has an above average CV and I have what I would consider a below average CV (maybe bottom 15% of class) for recent pharmacy grads. Had this been 10+ years ago I would be considered near the top. But times have changed. People have become much more competitive and dare I say superior to the past generation. Not everything is as fluffy as it used to be for the people generalizing our entire generation as "entitled" (always makes me giggle).

Anyway let me get to the point. She secured a job no problem at all and I am well underway to securing one. As for the people trying to implant into your brain that there are 0 jobs out there aside from CVS in Montana. They are lying out of their ass.

I also want to mention that you should watch out for what this "BMBiology" says. I've seen him post before and he is full of himself as well as negativity. He has not encouraged a single positive thought towards pharmacy in the eyes of a recent grad. I will not comment further on him because he does not deserve my respect or my time.

Don't get me wrong, the job market IS tough.... BUT THIS IS TRUE FOR EVERYONE AND EVERY MAJOR. Do not get discouraged because people on this forum say that it is "impossible to get a job" or that "you have to move to North Dakota." That is complete bullsh*t. If you decide to back out of this opportunity you are very well are going to be in an even tougher spot. Regardless, last I checked, signing up for pharmacy school wasn't binded to a 30 year contract to CVS as velocicaur seems to believe and preach.

Money makes the world move round and the average recent grad (last 15 years) has changed jobs over 10 TIMES. (i would source, but I am too lazy. If need be I will find it no problem). If you find yourself in CVS and don't like it, fine, quit. You will survive and I promise that. Having a PharmD is a very nice spot to be in in 2014. The great majority of the nation is in a tougher spot.

From your comments I can tell that you are a person with a decent sized head on his shoulder. You will make it and I encourage you to make your own choice and not listen to these people trying to sway your opinion. I am by no means saying that you should do it but I am telling you to consider potential motives/misbeliefs of the people posting on this forum.

I apologize for the poor grammar. haven't edited it. Peace out man, you seem pretty chill and I understand the struggle that you're going through

I agree with this post.

It's tough getting a job as a pharmacist, but it's the same for everyone else. It's seriously difficult to find a job in any field. I feel like there are a lot of trolls on here trying to dissuade people from pursuing pharmacy. I don't know why they do it, but if you are one of those people, I hope you die a painful death (100% serious). It's not funny spreading false information for newcomers.

I fear I may have listened to the trolls back on 2012. Would I go to pharmacy school given what I know now? Maybe. Can't really tell. But the truth is that it's tough for everyone getting a job.
 
I also want to add that it's quite bothersome how new pharmacy schools are being opened across the country with a limited amount of positions available. With the increasing automation, the pharmacists outlook doesn't look too good. That's one of the reasons I didn't pursue it. That coupled with loans exceeding 150k, I personally didn't feel like it was worth it.

I think you should make your own decision regarding this. If you really want to do pharmacy and are a good networker, then you really shouldn't have too much trouble finding a job as a pharmacist, etc, etc.
 
She secured a job no problem at all and I am well underway to securing one......Don't get me wrong, the job market IS tough.... BUT THIS IS TRUE FOR EVERYONE AND EVERY MAJOR.

So what is it? Is the job market bad or it is not bad? Yeah there are still jobs like in Lancaster, CA and Eureka, CA. Those jobs don't even guarantee 40 hours a week nowadays.

Yes, it is not easy for other majors but you know what's the difference? 4 years. vs. 8 years; 30 k vs. 175 k student loan debt.

What other evidence do you really need? Just look at the number of new grads flooding the job market. Look at the projected demand from the bureau of labor statistics. Compare the two and it's pretty obvious supply >> demand.

Look at the limited number of new stores CVS and Walgreens opened the last 4 years. Look at the number of stores Rite Aid had closed. Look at the number of stores closed due to merger. Look at how hospitals are having a hiring freeze due to budget cuts.

Look at how easy it is nowadays to get accepted. You have a 2.6 GPA and a financial aid letter? You are in! How is this even sustainable?

Seriously, what other evidence do you need?
 
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I feel like there are a lot of trolls on here trying to dissuade people from pursuing pharmacy.

We are here to inform and to share experiences. It doesn't affect me personally and it certainly does not change the direction of the profession. If someone decides not to go then I am sure another person will take his place.
 
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So what is it? Is the job market bad or it is not bad? Yeah there are still jobs like in Lancaster, CA and Eureka, CA. Those jobs don't even guarantee 40 hours a week.

Yes, it is not easy for other majors but you know what's the difference? 4 years. vs. 8 years; 30 k vs. 175 k student loan debt.

What other evidence do you really need? Just look at the number of new grads flooding the job market. Look at the projected demand from the bureau of labor statistics. Compare the two and it's pretty obvious supply >> demand.

Look at the limited number of new stores CVS and Walgreens opened the last 4 years. Look at the number of stores Rite Aid had closed. Look at the number of stores closed due to merger. Look at how hospitals are having a hiring freeze due to budget cuts.

Look at how easy it is nowadays to get accepted. You have a 2.6 GPA and a financial aid letter? You are in! How is this even sustainable?

Seriously, what other evidence do you need?

1) Sadly, I do agree with the bold.

2) Regardless of the situation, if you're a good networker, you will find a job.

As someone who's been in the "real world" looking for decent jobs, I can say it's extremely difficult. Point being: It's not what you know, it's who you know. Connections are everything. If you are thinking about going to pharmacy school and you have connections, don't even think twice about it.
 
2) Regardless of the situation, if you're a good networker, you will find a job.

If you are that good then why even become a pharmacist? why not just become a hedge fund manager?
 
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If you are not that good then why even become a pharmacist? why not just become a hedge fund manager?

I'm saying that if you really want to become a pharmacists and are a good networker, you should go regardless of the economic situation.
 
The one thing I rally like about this country is that is been more fair than most.

Is the pharmacy field heading towards or are already in parts saturated, absolutely. But those who really should be shaking in their pants are those who thinks mediocrity will entitle them to a job. The economy overall and even within a segment such as pharmacy will experience cycles of boom and bust, such is the fallacy of social behavior. But while I laugh at US government, the capitalistic economy is sound.

Prove that you can net generate/save company money, you needn't be too worried. But if you think you deserve a six figure pay because of a degree... Good luck.
 
"Successful people focus on what they are responsible for. Unsuccessful people focus on what they deserve."
 
I am also at the crossroad right now too. Come across these Warrent Buffet's quotes which might be relevant...


*7 Warren Buffet Quotes on Investing:

-"Never invest in a business you cannot understand."

-"The first rule is not to lose. The second rule is not to forget the first rule."

-"I never attempt to make money on the stock market. I buy on the assumption that they could lose the market the next day and not reopen it for ten years."

-"Diversification is a protection against ignorance. It makes very little sense for those who know what they're doing."

-"I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful."

-"Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing."

-"If you don't feel comfortable owning something for 10 years, then don't own it for 10 minutes."


http://www.docstoc.com/docs/123594725/7-Warren-Buffett-Quotes-on-Investing
 
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then her question still stand. Since interest rate is >> inflation, why not pay it off ASAP?
well, depends on the situation. If this is relating to me - my interest rate is 1.7% - last year my portfolio made 22% - obviously that will not happen ever year, but over the life of the stock market it is ~8% - and inflation is ~3% - so no reason to pay it off sooner.

To the OP - I applaud your decision as it was obvious your heart was not in it, and in your situation, financially it was not a smart move. I wish you best of luck and hope you find what is your calling and meets all of your criteria.
 
I wanted to share my thoughts.

I graduated pharmacy school from a well respected school in the southeast in 2013. I had worked in a pharmacy since my senior year of high school so about 6-7 years of experience. I ended up switching companies due to not getting an area remotely near where I wanted and the area I got was only 30 hours guaranteed floater (something would have opened up full time quick though, but like I said did not want to stay in that area).
I had about 80k of loans with 6.8% interest rate (bs how high it is, all federal Stafford loans)
I started with Walgreens and loved floating, I quickly was placed in one of the busiest stores and hated working 5 days a week and being stressed while at work.
I switched to Wal-mart after 6 months and was placed at an even busier store (about 3k a week, compared to 27-2800). I love wal-mart and only negative is being the PIC and the error policy.

My advice, the jobs are out there, very difficult to get an ideal location, will have to put in time and hope to transfer, this is never guaranteed tho.
If you are going to be over 100k in debt it is NOT WORTH IT, please think about that. With our tax rate and a 1000 a month loan payment for 10 years you will be making about 60k take home after taxes, 401k, loan payment. The biggest problem tho is our salary, I am a strong believer it will go down. We have seen a 4% reduction in reimbursement rates alone this year and it is similar among my independent friends. The big chains are not going to continue to pay us our salary with a reduction like that and more is most likely to come. Flu shots and MTMs are being pushed hard and will soon be mandatory, it's very hard to do these efficiently at busy stores.

Think about going into finance, or petroleum engineering or something similar. Look outside the box, not many jobs are open every holiday, have you working til 9 to 10 o'clock at night, have you working every other weekend or every third weekend. When you have a family these things will be tough. If the current environment and salary stays this way I would still do pharmacy. You would have to be a fool to believe that is the course tho, the amount of change I have seen in 7 years is drastic, salaries have stayed stagnant, companies are giving horrible raises and trying to justify not giving raises due to not meeting sales growth objectives. In this area BiLo cut pharmacists salaries across the board by 5%.


Takeaways:
1) the market is changing in a very negative direction (expect to see 90-100k salaries in the future (next 10 years), best case scenario it stays at 110-125k with no raises which is significantly lower then today due to inflation. A 125k year salary at 2% raise for 10 years is 152k.) This is coupled with worse working conditions.
2) If your loans are greater then 100K (1150.80 monthly payment for 10 years at 6.8% interest) consider wisely if it is worth it, if over 150K (1726 a month, this is >25% your take home pay) it isn't worth it period. Calculate interest during school into this About 130 k principle in school will be 150k when out.
3) think about quality of life, working weekends, late hours, holidays.

I would have done something else had I been 2 years younger, I realized I made a mistake in my second year as the market turned quickly from 09 to 11. I also was suppose to have about 25k less in loans, but the state government changed their scholarship program 3 months before my 5th year.
 
We can all talk until our faces are blue about the job market, but honestly we're not going to change anybody's mind because they read in Readers Digest or whatever that Pharmacy is still one of the top 100 jobs to make 100k without working hard. And they'll have their thoughts confirmed by all the other P1s and P2s and pre-pharms who can throw out all sorts of theoretical studies from their professors telling us how MTM is going to revitalize the profession and the baby boomers are getting old and whatever other talking point is going on right now.

Honestly, I think that jamesharden should be commended, much more than he was, for realizing that the money that everyone told him he could get from pharmacy doesn't flow like it used to, and since he wasn't passionate about the profession, it wasn't worth his time.

Yes, there are jobs that open up every year. Nobody ever disputed that. There will always be jobs. They'll just be more and more competitive each year, with fewer and fewer openings. In Georgia, our fourth pharmacy school is graduating their first class this year. I'm glad I hit the market before I had to compete with them. My district has consistently hired three or four grads for the past three or four years, but now there's a 25% increase in the number of grads each year. This is not unique for this state.

If you're not prepared to bust your ass early and often(by which I mean, finding a job to give you four hours a week in your P2 year isn't going to cut it) to get recognized as invaluable, whether it be through residency or retail, then you're in for a rude awakening when you graduate.
 
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