Late internship start/end date--issue(s) for postdoc?

[NeuroWise]

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Hi all,

The internship site to which I matched has a relatively late start date (Aug 20) and end date (Aug 13) compared to others in my cohort. As the end date technically falls within the fall semester of my university, I will have to register for that fall semester and wait to "graduate" in December. But, as you all know, postdocs will want to begin prior to December. So I am wondering, is not technically having the PhD in hand going to impede my ability to land a postdoc? I'd be a postdoc without a PhD for like 4 months or so.

 

[WorkLifeBalance]

YMMV, but someone on internship with me was in the same boat and they were able to get a pretty prestigious placement. And when I went on my postdoc, my name plate did not have "Ph.D.," because they had apparently had several past postdocs who were in that situation - and they didn't know if I had the credentials yet (and if I hadn't, it wasn't going to be a big deal). As you get to the point of preparing your applications, you could reach out to any sites you were interested in to see if it would be an issue. It's not that uncommon, so I would imagine they would have encountered it before.

 

[foreverbull]

A few folks I know had later-ending internships, but it wasn't a problem because they could easily explain it to potential postdoc sites if needed. This is one of those things that postdoc sites can very easily verify with your internship site/supervisor.
The bigger issue would be if the postdoc start date is before August 13, in which case you'd have to ask the TD there directly if there's any flexibility with the start date. If not, you may not be able to apply to the sites with rigid start dates.
Otherwise, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[SLB-CO]

Agree with everyone's comments - I haven't heard of it being a big deal for most next steps post-internship. The only major challenge that comes to mind is for clinical hours re: your licensing board, as some (all?) states don't allow to you to accrue your needed hours for licensure until after you have your PhD in hand. So, you could have a clinical postdoc in September, but not be able to accrue postdoctoral clinical hours until December. That said, there are some creative work-arounds. If your university confers degrees in the summer term, depending on your site, you may be able to save up vacation days until the end of your internship so that you can finish early and graduate in the summer. You may also finish at the stated date and then - with the support of your PD - petition your university to confer your degree early instead of having to wait until December. Again, none of these are guaranteed, but sometimes a bit of self-advocacy can move some rules that seem firm. Feel free to PM me if you want details on what I did, as I was in a similar boat.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I was in the same situation. Wasn’t a problem.

 

[futureapppsy2]

IME, you can usually wiggle a week or two flexibility with postdoc start dates. I had to negotiate one with the APA convention, because it seemed ridiculous to drive across the country and then fly back across the country a day later to attend the conference. I just negotiated my start date to a few days after APA.

 

[WisNeuro]

I've known several people with similar situations. At least in the VA, it wasn't a problem.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

I had the same worry, I end even later than you do. Most of the places I spoke to were cool with it. I suppose they understand that we have no say in when we end internship. I know of places that are not as flexible but in my anecdotal experience they were less common. It definitely won’t hurt to try and ask!

 

[Justanothergrad]

I've had several friends at very prestigious internships who had extremely late end dates (substantially later than yours). They had no problem with post-docs negotiating those start dates. Post-doc is less competitive than internship (in general) and folks want to recruit you. I've known some who started before they "graduated" and did other tasks (training, research assistance, etc) instead of billable ones to ensure that when they offically graduate they hit the ground at full speed. It all depends on the post-doc.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

In most instances, as others have said, no--it wouldn't impact things. But you'll want to check with the particular postdoc of interest, particularly RE: not yet having the degree conferred. I didn't have my degree for a few months at the beginning of postdoc due to stipulations about commencement dates, and simply had to get a letter from my program indicating that I'd completed all degree requirements.

 

[NeuroWise]

Agree with everyone's comments - I haven't heard of it being a big deal for most next steps post-internship. The only major challenge that comes to mind is for clinical hours re: your licensing board, as some (all?) states don't allow to you to accrue your needed hours for licensure until after you have your PhD in hand. So, you could have a clinical postdoc in September, but not be able to accrue postdoctoral clinical hours until December. That said, there are some creative work-arounds. If your university confers degrees in the summer term, depending on your site, you may be able to save up vacation days until the end of your internship so that you can finish early and graduate in the summer. You may also finish at the stated date and then - with the support of your PD - petition your university to confer your degree early instead of having to wait until December. Again, none of these are guaranteed, but sometimes a bit of self-advocacy can move some rules that seem firm. Feel free to PM me if you want details on what I did, as I was in a similar boat.

Thank you for the advice! I'll reach out to you if needed.

 

[NeuroWise]

YMMV, but someone on internship with me was in the same boat and they were able to get a pretty prestigious placement. And when I went on my postdoc, my name plate did not have "Ph.D.," because they had apparently had several past postdocs who were in that situation - and they didn't know if I had the credentials yet (and if I hadn't, it wasn't going to be a big deal). As you get to the point of preparing your applications, you could reach out to any sites you were interested in to see if it would be an issue. It's not that uncommon, so I would imagine they would have encountered it before.

That makes me feel better. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[NeuroWise]

I had the same worry, I end even later than you do. Most of the places I spoke to were cool with it. I suppose they understand that we have no say in when we end internship. I know of places that are not as flexible but in my anecdotal experience they were less common. It definitely won’t hurt to try and ask!

Yeah, it makes sense that postdoc sites need to be flexible, but I was worrying (as per usual). Thanks!

 

[NeuroWise]

In most instances, as others have said, no--it wouldn't impact things. But you'll want to check with the particular postdoc of interest, particularly RE: not yet having the degree conferred. I didn't have my degree for a few months at the beginning of postdoc due to stipulations about commencement dates, and simply had to get a letter from my program indicating that I'd completed all degree requirements.

That doesn't seem difficult. Thanks!

 

[calimich]

Seconding what others have written and adding that you may also want to check with the state Board.

I was in a similar situation with late start dates, and CA requires formal postdoc hours. Like AcronymAllergy, I had to provide a letter to the licensing board from my academic institution stating the date all the phd requirements were fulfilled so that I could officially begin accruing postdoc hours -- even though I technically wasn't Dr. Calimich yet.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

This was not a problem for me either. I had a small gap into my postdoc where my PhD wasn't conferred yet. My site did not care and I just had my graduate training director write a letter stating all my degree requirements were met by X date - to have on hand if my postdoc HR or TD needed for any reason.

 

[Lotus143]

Postdoc sites usually consider the day you complete internship as your "graduation" date - ie you've completed all requirements for your degree (internship, dissertation, etc). It doesn't matter when you actually walk. My internship ends August 17, 2018 and my postdoc starts August 20, 2018 (literally the following Monday). My graduation ceremony won't actually be until December 2018.

However, having a later internship end date does limit your postdoc choices. Some sites that started earlier than my internship end date were not willing to be flexible, so I couldn't apply to their sites. Every site is different, so you would need to email them and ask when you're applying to postdocs.