Law or Medicine?

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xnfs93hy

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I have narrowed down my career choices to two fields:

Medicine
and
Law

I know I can make it in law but I don't know if I would be able to survive medical school. I am not stupid but I'm not supersmart either. I have very good student habits which will help me A LOT and I can manage my time very easily which will definitely come into play later on in the game. I just have no interest in Chemistry or Bio. I enjoy Psychology and physics. I know I may sound ignorant and not "in the know" but doesn't a doctor have to rock at Chem and Bio? I mean, I understand the material and everything but I just have no interest, none, at all with Chem and Bio I absolutely abhor it.

I am steered towards law because it is MUCH easier to get into law school compared to med school (obviously still competitive though). Another thing that turned me on was the money. By the time I get out of residency (if I choose to be a doctor) I MAY already own a house. However, lawyers are a dime a dozen really and you have to work crazy hours to even make good money.

I am not passionate at all about law but I think I posses a lot of the qualities a successful lawyer should have. Fast reader, retain all of it, gifted in English and other languages, able to analyze information quickly, etc. Some of these traits are also traits of a successful physician as well.

Please don't jump down my throat with "OMG DUDE. STOP WORRYING."

I have every right to be worried. If I know medicine is for me I can start working towards it right after high school rather than decide halfway through UG.

I just don't know.

I loved volunteering at the hospital and I WANT to shadow doc's and get more experience because I LIKE IT. I wouldn't say I am PASSIONATE about medicine but its really the only career I keep going back to after looking at others. Will I own a nice house when my colleague just finished his residency? mmm, maybe. But I just can't see myself being HAPPY as a lawyer. I can see myself happy as a physician.


Flame me if you must but I think I really only have one question. Should I go into a field because I like it and think I can contribute and be successful in? or should I go into a field which will allow me to make money quicker in the short term but be miserable.

I just cannot decide because I don't know if I could handle medical school, thats the problem. Undergrad is not a big deal but medical school is a whole new ball game. Thoughts?
 
Personally, I do not think that you should go into a specific area for the money. It would be much harder to complete law school, or medical school, if you are not passionate about the subject. I do not really understand why you would choose to go into an area that would make you "miserable."

I do not have much to say, except do what you enjoy. It will make life much more enjoyable. Either way you will be going to school for awhile. Plus, if you are only in high school you still have time. To get into medical school you can major in anything you like, as long as you have the pre-reqs. Enjoy life before it comes extremely hectic.
 
I was/am somewhat in the same position you were. It took me an entire semester to finally think things through and decide on medicine. I can't see myself being a defense attorney and working my hardest to keep criminals out of jail. So I'd be working for the prosecution most likely an assistant district attorney. The average salary for an ADA is anywhere between $40k-$60k a year which isn't that great. ADA positions in bigger cities are highly contested so working in a smaller community or county for even less money is a very realistic possibility. And of course after a few years of experience you can try to move on up to a higher paying & bigger area.

Defense attorney's on the other hand can start a lot higher. Most of the LA firms start off recently graduated attorney's at $100k a year with the right credentials. Don't forget that whichever path you take you'll only be taking an extra 3-4 years of education after college. No residency years being paid a minimum wage and no specialization period.

Edit: And almost forgot to mention, attorneys leave their professional schooling a lot lighter on the debt side than a doctors do.
 
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What I think is... You should work on your decision making skill. You really want people to decide what to do? Are you a puppet? 🙄
 
Please don't jump down my throat with "OMG DUDE. STOP WORRYING."

I have every right to be worried. If I know medicine is for me I can start working towards it right after high school rather than decide halfway through UG.

I just don't know.
...

Flame me if you must but I think I really only have one question. Should I go into a field because I like it and think I can contribute and be successful in? or should I go into a field which will allow me to make money quicker in the short term but be miserable.

First, I don't mean to jump down your throat, but OMG DUDE, STOP WORRYING. No seriously. You do not need to start working towards medicine right after high school. Yes, you can decide halfway through UG that you want to go into medicine. You can even decide AFTER UG that you want to go into medicine. There are tons of postbac programs that exist precisely because more and more folks don't take the prereqs in undergrad and instead use that time to figure out what they want to do for a living. This is largely the reason that the average starting age in US allo med schools today is now about 24 rather than 21. You DO NOT HAVE TO DECIDE NOW.

But putting that aside, you absolutely should not go into a field in which you think you would be "miserable". Doesn't really matter what it is. Miserable is a deal breaker. If you are smart enough to get into either of these paths, you are going to have choices in life beyond that of the typical joe sixpack who has to pump gas for a living and live for the weekend. And if you have choices, you needn't be miserable. It's only the people who have no choices for whom being miserable should ever be an option. Whether it's medicine or law, you are going to be spending the majority of your awake hours at your job. If you are miserable, it's simply not worth it. It is pointless to endure something you hate only to know that your bank account is a big fuller. You only get one life, and it shouldn't be a life sentence.

I would, however, do a little research into various fields before deciding what you would be "miserable" in. Law and medicine have a lot more in common than you'd think. Patients and clients are both simply people with problems. And in both fields you use your senses and education to try and understand and fix those problems. In these over regulated days, many doctors even are doing nearly as much paperwork and filings than lawyers, not spending the bulk of your time "saving lives" or whatever other misconception you might have.
There are miserable people in both fields, and happy people in both fields. Neither is right for everyone. And neither is going to be exactly what you are picturing them to be. Which is fine -- I didn't know squat about either field when I was in high school either. You live and learn. Use college to figure things out, not high school. Your opportunities to usefully shadow, volunteer and work in either arena won't really exist until then.
 
I was/am somewhat in the same position you were. It took me an entire semester to finally think things through and decide on medicine. I can't see myself being a defense attorney and working my hardest to keep criminals out of jail. So I'd be working for the prosecution most likely an assistant district attorney.

Um, you do realize that 95% of all lawyers do nothing remotely related to criminal law on either side. So if a dislike of either side of criminal law is what drove you to the choice of medicine, you really need to go back to the drawing board.

The majority of lawyers work for the government. Then corporate/transactional lawyers are the next largest group. Then civil litigators, who deal with commercial, tort or other disputes between individuals. And so on. A VERY very small percentage of lawyers deal with criminals either on the defense or prosecution side. So it's ludicrous to say -- I can't see myself working on the defense side so I'd be working on the prosecution side. Most lawyers work in neither of these career options. The law public may be confused but not all lawyers are really in the same profession. Most lawyers will never deal with a criminal law matter. Most law firms never deal with a criminal law matter. Might as well be a different field altogether, the only thing these two professionals have in common is that the path to the job goes through law school. So when you equate law with criminal law, it either means you don't understand what lawyers do, or you watch way too much TV. Most lawyers don't do jobs that would make a good TV show. The corporate types, for example "do deals". Which basically means meet in big board rooms, with many parties including buyers, sellers, lenders, regulators, assist in negotiating the deal, then document the deals through numerous drafts of voluminous contracts and licenses. And then spend days over the phone and fax fighting with other lawyers, regulators, bankers over mark ups. No criminals. No unsavory characters. Just negotiations, long hours, lots of time on the phone, and lots of cheap take-out chinese food.
 
Jeff,

I stongly advise you not to go into either field based on money. Both careers have the potential for you to make a lot of money, but they both require a lot of commitment and time. Do something you know you are passionate about, because that is what you will end up enjoying in the long run. I also think that you are under the wrong impression if you believe that physicians can make a lot of money in the short term. Many people leave medical school in debt, and must work their butts off to pay it back. The early years of residency are definitely not high-paying jobs. You also have plenty of time to make your decision. Take some law-related classes in college or even during high school and see how it interests you. Maybe you could even talk to a physician about how they felt about medicine when they were your age. Either way, I would do a little more research about both fields.

You mentioned that you have no interest in biology or chem...but then why do you want to be a doctor? A physician's job is to use knowledge of human anatomy/biology/chemistry to help them with their medical problems. If you have no interest in the life sciences, you will most likely end up miserable in medical school and residency. It takes a lot of training to become a doctor, and it will require a lot of interest and passion to make it through and actually enjoy yourself. Go into a career that you know you can become passionate about, and I am sure that you will be happy with your decision in the long run.

Good luck with your decision, but remember that you have plenty of time to think about it.
 
Both will be extremely difficult, stressful, and expensive. Jobs in law are probably more 'safe' right now economically, but there's no reason to do something you hate just for the money. Do what you really love; there's no telling exactly how much you will make in either feild, but you can know which one you will enjoy.
 
Jeff,

I stongly advise you not to go into either field based on money. Both careers have the potential for you to make a lot of money, but they both require a lot of commitment and time. Do something you know you are passionate about, because that is what you will end up enjoying in the long run. I also think that you are under the wrong impression if you believe that physicians can make a lot of money in the short term. Many people leave medical school in debt, and must work their butts off to pay it back. The early years of residency are definitely not high-paying jobs. You also have plenty of time to make your decision. Take some law-related classes in college or even during high school and see how it interests you. Maybe you could even talk to a physician about how they felt about medicine when they were your age. Either way, I would do a little more research about both fields.

You mentioned that you have no interest in biology or chem...but then why do you want to be a doctor? A physician's job is to use knowledge of human anatomy/biology/chemistry to help them with their medical problems. If you have no interest in the life sciences, you will most likely end up miserable in medical school and residency. It takes a lot of training to become a doctor, and it will require a lot of interest and passion to make it through and actually enjoy yourself. Go into a career that you know you can become passionate about, and I am sure that you will be happy with your decision in the long run.

Good luck with your decision, but remember that you have plenty of time to think about it.

I thought I said lawyers make more short term. If I said doctors I apologize because that is wrong. As far as chemistry and Bio goes, I am not too crazy about them. I have gotten great grades in both but I'm not passionate about those subjects. I'm not going to say why I want to be a doctor on here, lets just say personal reasons. So, are you saying that if I'm not "passionate" about Bio or Chem then I have no chance at becoming a doctor?
 
Jeff,

I stongly advise you not to go into either field based on money.

Agreed. You aren't signing over the next 50 years of your life for money, you are doing it because that's how you want to spend the next 50 years of your life. The money will just be a happy perquisite, if it happens. But the main goal has to be something you enjoy doing. Because guess what -- your life is worth more than anyone is going to pay you for it, and so if you are going to be miserable, it's just never worth it. You only live a fleeting time on this planet, don't spend it doing something you hate in pursuit of a more stylish coffin.
 
ultimatley you need to make money if you want a comfortable life for you and your family. MD coming out of residency you can make six figures. While Law you might struggle for a couple of years till you make it. MD have insurance reinbursments, whereas Law your relying on clients to pay out of pocket. MD will always have a steady cash flow, were law can be up and down.
 
I dunno, but it seems like you think you won't enjoy law, and it's silly to spend all of that money on school to do something you don't love. Also, think about the really passionate kid who wanted to get into law school who's place you'll be taken. It's not fair to your peers and it's also not fair to your clients. You'll make more money in a field that you really enjoy, because by nature, you'll work harder at it.
 
I dunno, but it seems like you think you won't enjoy law, and it's silly to spend all of that money on school to do something you don't love. Also, think about the really passionate kid who wanted to get into law school who's place you'll be taken. It's not fair to your peers and it's also not fair to your clients. You'll make more money in a field that you really enjoy, because by nature, you'll work harder at it.

I don't actually like his attitude for medicine more than law. If you are going to take up someone's seat for the wrong reasons (paycheck size) then please take the seat of the kid going into law. Medicine needs good people with the right focus far more than law. If you are primarily in it for the money, that attitude will fly in law far better than in medicine.
 
ultimatley you need to make money if you want a comfortable life for you and your family.

If you are focused on earning money to make your family comfortable, rather than something you enjoy, you will quickly become miserable and tough to be around, and your family will distance themselves from you. Or you will resent them because you have to do what you hate to support them. Do not go into something you don't enjoy if you have the choice. And when you are talking about one or another profession, it means you have a multitude of choices. Unlike the poor dude who has to work 9 to 5 to pay for his unintended children, you presumably can do something that actually brings you career satisfaction. This should be the number one priority. Money is a perq, not a priority. If for you it is a priority then I would steer clear of medicine in particular, and probably of law because those careers demand too much of you to be worth it unless you enjoy it. If you cannot think of what you would enjoy doing (other than income), then that is your goal for college -- to try out different paths and see what fits. Do not do a knee-jerk -- I can earn X dollars on Y path, so I will do Y path. Figure out what you want to do, and THEN look to what it pays.
 
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I don't actually like his attitude for medicine more than law. If you are going to take up someone's seat for the wrong reasons (paycheck size) then please take the seat of the kid going into law. Medicine needs good people with the right focus far more than law. If you are primarily in it for the money, that attitude will fly in law far better than in medicine.

Very true, I'd still rather not be convicted of something I didn't do, simply because my lawyer wasn't doing everything he could to prove me inoccent. But I s'pose rotting in jail is preferable to dying because of an incorrect diagnosis.
 
I thought I said lawyers make more short term. If I said doctors I apologize because that is wrong. As far as chemistry and Bio goes, I am not too crazy about them. I have gotten great grades in both but I'm not passionate about those subjects. I'm not going to say why I want to be a doctor on here, lets just say personal reasons. So, are you saying that if I'm not "passionate" about Bio or Chem then I have no chance at becoming a doctor?

I must have misunderstood you, then. I thought you were referring to doctors when you mentioned money in the short term. And, no, I am absolutely not saying that if you are not passionate about biology or chemistry then you have no chance at becoming a doctor. It would just make the process more enjoyable to you. I am sure you have very good reasons for wanting to pursue a career in medicine, and please do not think that I feel you have no chance at a medical career. You probably have as good of a chance as anyone at this point, since high school is very early in the process.
 
I don't actually like his attitude for medicine more than law. If you are going to take up someone's seat for the wrong reasons (paycheck size) then please take the seat of the kid going into law. Medicine needs good people with the right focus far more than law. If you are primarily in it for the money, that attitude will fly in law far better than in medicine.
I'm not in it for the money, although it does play a role. I need to be able to make enough money to live in a nice house and send my kids to private school, and that's really all I want. Money will not be my decision maker and it CERTAINLY isn't the primary reason why I am considering a career in medicine, all physicians make a great living (most at least) and I'm not worried about that.

I have talked to my mom about this and she thinks I am making a good choice, however, she is telling me that I should shadow doctor's and get more experience (other than just volunteering) either now or when I am in college.
 
Pick something you like. You're a junior in high school so your views will probably change at least once on your way to grad school, so don't say you've narrowed your choices down to two. There's so much out there you probably haven't even seen or experienced yet.

That's all that can really be said. Don't go into something for the money, especially medicine (you'll be extremely disappointed in your choices as you wisen and realize what it's about). Don't be dumb and make a quick choice you'll regret. Concentrate on making good grades (as good as you can).

From other threads, you seem kind of disappointed in your grades in HS. Focus on doing excellent, especially in College. Leave yourself a broad horizon. Try some biological and chemistry classes in college, try some more engineering based classes, etc. Find something you like. Volunteer, shadow, and research anything that might seem interesting and find out what the job is like.

It is nice to be fiscally secure, yes; it shouldn't be your driving force in life though. Eventually you'll realize being fiscally secure is good, but when you spend most of your life doing something you hate it won't really matter that you get to drive a pash car and live in a mansion when you go home at the end of the night.

You can live a decent life (one that is good enough for anybody) without the salary of a doctor or a lawyer, so don't think that's the only way you'll be able to afford a house and live somewhat decent. Just don't drop out and piss it all away.

If you're looking for a million dollar house and a 200,000 dollar car, then you're looking in the wrong direction. Ignore salaries, find something you want to spend your life doing. If it happens to pay enough to allow you to buy those things, that's just peachy. Don't let the concept of "money" bias your views on what you want to spend your life doing.

The bottom line is not to go into something you'll hate doing, and perform worse than someone who would enjoy it, just so you can make a decent chunk of money.

Salary and job security wise, I'd say medicine trumps law. Good doctors are always and always will be needed (until they come out with sentient robots that can do the job of physicians), and you'll always have a job. Lawyers are meh. So many out there. You gotta come from prestige to do excellent there.
 
Ehh. What could I do with an MD/JD?

You could pay off higher loans but not make as much money. There aren't great reasons for this joint degree at present. The only combo jobs out there involve health policy work. But in general, folks who do this joint degree end up working primarily in one field or the other. Medmal lawyers don't need to go to med school so that is a total waste of 4 years if this is your goal (99.99% just have the JD and do fine). Basically, you'd have to convince folks that they can use someone with two degrees rather than jump into already existing jobs. There are a number of folks with websites devoted to why the JD/MD combo makes no sense. I'd be very slow to consider that unless you had a very specific career plan in mind.
 
I don't actually like his attitude for medicine more than law. If you are going to take up someone's seat for the wrong reasons (paycheck size) then please take the seat of the kid going into law. Medicine needs good people with the right focus far more than law. If you are primarily in it for the money, that attitude will fly in law far better than in medicine.

Agreed.
 
Is it worth looking into or no? Is the second part of you response humor or are you serious about me not getting sued?

As mentioned above, no degree will protect you from being sued.

Just an aside, you don't necessarily have to have done something wrong to be sued. It might be a completely frivolous complaint that won't make it to court, but that won't necessarily stop someone from suing you.
 
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Having no interest in chem/bio is a big red flag to me. I'm a first year in dental school and we take the same classes as the med students right now. You have to eat breath and sleep biology type classes here. If you're strongly disinterested in them already, you may be pretty miserable as you are faceplanted in science textbooks all day everyday and hanging out in smelly gross anatomy labs. It is like being an undergrad bio major except taking twice the credits. Ask yourself if that sounds fun.

Believe it or not, there are other paths besides Medicine and Law. Consider them. Good luck.

I am disinterested in other subjects in school as well but I just study up, grin and bear it. I know this is easy to say now and it will be much harder later on but if that is what I have to do then fine. I really don't HATE chem and bio, I just have much stronger interests in other areas of science. I do like chemistry a bit more than bio though. I don't know what gross anatomy labs are but it sounds like cutting up bodies, which sounds fun.
 
Just an aside, you don't necessarily have to have done something wrong to be sued. It might be a completely frivolous complaint that won't make it to court, but that won't necessarily stop someone from suing you.

There are sanctions for lawyers who bring frivolous cases, so no, it won't be a completely frivolous case -- this is actually quite rare. But you will likely be named in a case where you did nothing wrong but happened to be amongst the list of healthcare professionals involved in this patients' care, even if you personally did nothing wrong. Patients are not in a good position to decide who did what (particularly if they are incapacitated or anesthetised), and don't tend to be able to get discovery material (records, depositions) until they file suit, so it's the norm to list everybody and then dismiss people as the evidence of who did what comes in. Otherwise defendants will use the "empty chair" defense -- that the one person not named in the suit, the one that should be sitting in that empty chair, is the real culprit. Frivolous is a word with important meaning in the law and doesn't mean what lay people seem to think it means, which is why it gets bandied about incorrectly on places like SDN. You won't get sued frivolously. But you might get sued where you personally didn't do anything wrong. There is an important distinction. Meaning a patient can file a suit, the judge can tell the patient, sorry you didn't prove your case, and it may not have been frivolous.

A controversial Harvard Med publication a couple of years back looked at lawsuits over the course of a period of time and determined that the number of frivolous lawsuits is actually quite minimal, notwithstanding that doctors prevailed in malpractice cases that didn't settle much of the time. In the article, they also basically determined that the medical profession significantly exaggerated the impact lawsuits actually have on healthcare costs, and that the profession played down the actual number of suits for which patients had legitimate claims for malpractice. The gist was that law suits weren't as big a problem in medicine as the medical profession likes to claim, that frivolous claims (as the law would defined them) were basically non-existent, and that most typically when a suit is filed, someone actually was legitimately injured due to negligence.

As mentioned, this was fairly controversial and made popular media buzz for a bit, and undercut some of the pushes for medmal tort reform. The consensus was that the only change needed in the medical profession was to find ways to minimize mistakes, which are in fact happening, in healthcare. I recall Atul Guwande in his book Complications has a fairly lengthy chapter on mistakes in medicine and various specialties/nations attempts to minimize them. That kind of reform is going to prove more fruitful than whining about frivolous cases -- trying to place blame outside of the profession. Sorry for the rant, but folks on here throw the word frivolous around as if they know what they are talking about. It's a loaded term with legal meaning and consequences, so not one to bandy about. But yes, there are potentially stiff sanctions and professional consequences for a lawyer filing a frivolous suit, so you will not likely see one.
 
My dad must've been lucky because he has been named in 3 pointless lawsuits where the outcome was obviously not any doctor's fault. He hasn't lost yet but they have named him in plenty of crap.
 
Um, you do realize that 95% of all lawyers do nothing remotely related to criminal law on either side. So if a dislike of either side of criminal law is what drove you to the choice of medicine, you really need to go back to the drawing board.

Unfortunately criminal law is the only field I find interest in. Too bad ADA's don't get paid well. I wasn't aware that an overwhelming 95% of lawyers had nothing to do with criminal law though I am aware that there were other fields they can go into. By your description of their work it sounds like medicine is still going to be my profession of choice.
 
My dad must've been lucky because he has been named in 3 pointless lawsuits where the outcome was obviously not any doctor's fault. He hasn't lost yet but they have named him in plenty of crap.

Sure, but it's not going to meet the definition of "frivolous". Again, you can prevail in a case and it still not have been frivolous. Frivolous does not mean the plaintiff merely doesn't win. It means they didn't have a legally sufficient basis for filing the suit, such that the lawyer ought to be sanctioned. Thus a losing case may not be a frivolous case. It thus isn't the meaning lay people ascribe to it -- it is a legal sufficiency term.
 
I am disinterested in other subjects in school as well but I just study up, grin and bear it. I know this is easy to say now and it will be much harder later on but if that is what I have to do then fine. I really don't HATE chem and bio, I just have much stronger interests in other areas of science. I do like chemistry a bit more than bio though. I don't know what gross anatomy labs are but it sounds like cutting up bodies, which sounds fun.

You say you have stronger interests in other sciences.

Perhaps you should check out those areas of science before narrowing yourself down to two conveniently prestigious fields.

Explore all of your options, not just the ones that will let you live rich later in life. You'll find that as you age, being rich and driving a nice car/living in a nice house won't be the at the top of your priorities, especially when you hate what you do for a living.
 
i havent read any posts on this thread, but I thought it was interesting that I found out that one of the 3rd year internal medicine residents that I interact with had been a practicing lawyer for many years and then decided to switch to medicine. I havent talked to her about why, but maybe I will this week or the next.
 
Business is for you, how much you earn is the only limited by the sky.
blendy1.jpg

Wanna try that again? :laugh:
 
Best Job in the world vs. lying

choose

Which is which? Lawyers don't lie as much in reality as they do on TV. Ethical rules pose huge penalties for doing so. Doctors ethical supervision doesn't have nearly the teeth, so the bad apples in that field tend to do even more questionable things. There are a few people in each field who don't belong, that sometimes taint the reputation of the majority who do their jobs ethically.

As for best job in the world, I would suggest that this is true for some, but dead wrong for others. There are folks in medicine who hate it, and should never have chosen it. Years of thought and careful research of your decision can be your friend here. Go to college with an open mind, try lots of things, talk to lots of people. If medicine is the best job in the world for you, then fantastic. If it isn't, you try something else. If you do well in college, many career options will be open to you. So you have choices, and should pick the one that's best for you. Not all will be.
 
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I am disinterested in other subjects in school as well but I just study up, grin and bear it. I know this is easy to say now and it will be much harder later on but if that is what I have to do then fine. I really don't HATE chem and bio, I just have much stronger interests in other areas of science. I do like chemistry a bit more than bio though. I don't know what gross anatomy labs are but it sounds like cutting up bodies, which sounds fun.

What are some of the sciences you enjoy? Physics?
 
Which is which? Lawyers don't lie as much in reality as they do on TV. Ethical rules pose huge penalties for doing so. Doctors ethical supervision doesn't have nearly the teeth, so the bad apples in that field tend to do even more questionable things. There are a few people in each field who don't belong, that sometimes taint the reputation of the majority who do their jobs ethically.

As for best job in the world, I would suggest that this is true for some, but dead wrong for others. There are folks in medicine who hate it, and should never have chosen it. Years of thought and careful research of your decision can be your friend here. Go to college with an open mind, try lots of things, talk to lots of people. If medicine is the best job in the world for you, then fantastic. If it isn't, you try something else. If you do well in college, many career options will be open to you. So you have choices, and should pick the one that's best for you. Not all will be.

😛...someone still loves their old profession.
 
Because I like money.

You can get an MD/JD combined degree. After you finish the combined degree, you can go into neurosurgery and finish up an MBA at Wharton, part time. After that, marry the daughter of an Insurance company owner;that way, you won't have to pay for insurance. Then you can open up a clinic/law office and invest the money you make on wall street. At this point, you won't have to work for money, money will just come to you.

If you follow the above plan, you will make $$$ in no time.