Law school after pharmacy?

[NateRobinson]

I just finished P3 and am going into fourth year of pharmacy school next year but I already decided I don't just want to be a pharmacist. I've heard a lot of things about pharmacist-lawyers making a lot of money, and I was thinking of going to st johns in queens (I go to LIU right now) so what are your opinions on the matter? Is it worth it, do you make more money? Or would you guys reccomend going to medical school right after?

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[PumpkinSmasher]

I just finished P3 and am going into fourth year of pharmacy school next year but I already decided I don't just want to be a pharmacist. I've heard a lot of things about pharmacist-lawyers making a lot of money, and I was thinking of going to st johns in queens (I go to LIU right now) so what are your opinions on the matter? Is it worth it, do you make more money? Or would you guys reccomend going to medical school right after?

Do you want to be a doctor or a pharmaceutical patent lawyer? Decide for yourself.

You are like a lost little puppy, hopefully you do not get run over crossing the road...

 

[Passion4Sci]

If you don't go to a top 14 law school, you might as well not waste your time. You'll probably end up slinging pills at Rite-Aid or Walgreens either way...

This almost seems like a troll.

You won't make considerably more money with an M.D. either... especially not compared to the debt load you'll have socked yourself with.

 

[NateRobinson]

? Why would you call me a troll? I'm sincerely asking. None of the CVS's around here (NY) are offering contracts. They offered 35 contracts this year, and 6 of my friends who just graduated didn't get offered one. You guys probably live in a shell where jobs are frequent, but not in NY state.

 

[Passion4Sci]

? Why would you call me a troll? I'm sincerely asking. None of the CVS's around here (NY) are offering contracts. They offered 35 contracts this year, and 6 of my friends who just graduated didn't get offered one. You guys probably live in a shell where jobs are frequent, but not in NY state.

There's an extreme likelihood that a JD or an MD wouldn't add any marketability to your portfolio, and instead, would just add an enormous debt load. If you take the LSAT and score 169+ and can get into a T14 (The only law schools worth going to any more) then by all means, go for it. Because in that event, you're likely to get solid job offers outside of pharmaceutical practice/law as well. A JD from any school outside of T14 and maybe T25 isn't worth the paper it's printed on the vast majority of the time.

And MD/PharmD is a waste. I don't believe you'll find a single proponent of that type of dual degree anywhere in industry. I once brought it up to our DoP and she scoffed at it - What's the point, was her main argument.

Even if you could command a $40,000 per year premium on top of your PharmD, would the additional 3 years and incumbent $100,000+ debt (on top of your PharmD debt, yea?) really be worth it?

As far as living in a "shell" - I'm in Nor Calif, one of the most saturated zones for Pharmacy, and there are still jobs. They're not desirable all the time, and they're often prn and such, but they're there. With a JD you might be too specialized, similar to Pharmacists with PGy2 residencies... and may end up working as just a lawyer with an additional doctorate tacked onto your name, you know? In that event, you'll really need that T14 name behind you on your JD 'cos otherwise, there's a million of you all competing for that same job.

Plus I doubt you'll find many decent paying openings for lawyers in your area of NY, also.

 

[Filler]

I just finished P3 and am going into fourth year of pharmacy school next year but I already decided I don't just want to be a pharmacist. I've heard a lot of things about pharmacist-lawyers making a lot of money, and I was thinking of going to st johns in queens (I go to LIU right now) so what are your opinions on the matter? Is it worth it, do you make more money? Or would you guys reccomend going to medical school right after?

Patent lawyers do make a good deal of change, however the issue is that you wouldn't have any relative experience in patent law if you chose to go straight from pharm school to law school. Most patent lawyers have some form of PhD, however I'm sure there are PharmD patent lawyers out there. The issue is that many of them have a good deal of experience working in research/industry before making the jump to patent law. You truly need great technical reading and writing skills, but more importantly you need to know what the hell your reading and writing about when in patent law. Its feasible to jump from pharm school to law school but you would be taking a risk of being severely in debt and without any experience, who would hire you?

 

[Praziquantel86]

And MD/PharmD is a waste. I don't believe you'll find a single proponent of that type of dual degree anywhere in industry. I once brought it up to our DoP and she scoffed at it - What's the point, was her main argument.

I think I actually have found a place it makes a difference - academics. Based completely on personal observations of highly biased samples (bitterly angry observations, I might add), I've noticed a few PharmD/MD folks setting up shop in administration of some of the newer schools. This is, of course, if you count Latin American MDs with no residency training as an MD. D'Youville and Appalachian are two that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[pinkpillowzz]

I work in NewYork Presbyterian with a PharmD/JD. This person used to make a lot of money doing patent law for pharmaceutical companies, but with the way the economy went (down), a lot of companies aren't putting money into R&D as much, so she was let go.

PharmD/JD gets you a job as a patent lawyer only when the economy is good, generally speaking, but this can be said of most jobs

 

[rxlea]

Bleh

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

The idea of a PharmD/JD has been played out, like somebody else said, not worth the extra debtload unless you get accepted to a top school

what does Doc Rivers have against you? Why aren't you seeing any playing time on the court in the playoffs?

 

[Its Z]

Just listened to a segment on NPR about a United Air pilot who went to law school. He's graduating this month.... and said 2010 is by far the worst job market year in history for attorneys. He said he'll keep flying but doubts he'll find a job.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Just listened to a segment on NPR about a United Air pilot who went to law school. He's graduating this month.... and said 2010 is by far the worst job market year in history for attorneys. He said he'll keep flying but doubts he'll find a job.

Did he go to a T10-14 by chance?

 

[jinga]

Just listened to a segment on NPR about a United Air pilot who went to law school. He's graduating this month.... and said 2010 is by far the worst job market year in history for attorneys. He said he'll keep flying but doubts he'll find a job.

NPR is my best friend, besides my guitars. All Things Considered makes my spirit soar.

 

[Argentium]

Did he go to a T10-14 by chance?

Passion, T14 is only the end all for big law - if op wanted to work in industry or the FDA, he does not necessarily need to come from a T14 law school. (Though it certainly would not hurt). With that said, this is a terrible year for attorneys - at this point, not even the T4 (Harvard, Yale, Stanford ...) is a safe bet anymore. Yah, that bad.

 

[koercive]

I know 1 person who got into Loyola after graduating with a PharmD. I also met several successful PharmD/JD who have positions in managed care/govt/industry.

Check out ASPL ( http://www.aspl.org/ ) . Getting involved/meeting people from here will be a great way to learn more and network with current PharmD/JDs

You don't necessarily need to go to a T14.

 

[Priapism321]

There's an extreme likelihood that a JD or an MD wouldn't add any marketability to your portfolio, and instead, would just add an enormous debt load. If you take the LSAT and score 169+ and can get into a T14 (The only law schools worth going to any more) then by all means, go for it. Because in that event, you're likely to get solid job offers outside of pharmaceutical practice/law as well. A JD from any school outside of T14 and maybe T25 isn't worth the paper it's printed on the vast majority of the time.

And MD/PharmD is a waste. I don't believe you'll find a single proponent of that type of dual degree anywhere in industry. I once brought it up to our DoP and she scoffed at it - What's the point, was her main argument.

Even if you could command a $40,000 per year premium on top of your PharmD, would the additional 3 years and incumbent $100,000+ debt (on top of your PharmD debt, yea?) really be worth it?

As far as living in a "shell" - I'm in Nor Calif, one of the most saturated zones for Pharmacy, and there are still jobs. They're not desirable all the time, and they're often prn and such, but they're there. With a JD you might be too specialized, similar to Pharmacists with PGy2 residencies... and may end up working as just a lawyer with an additional doctorate tacked onto your name, you know? In that event, you'll really need that T14 name behind you on your JD 'cos otherwise, there's a million of you all competing for that same job.

Plus I doubt you'll find many decent paying openings for lawyers in your area of NY, also.

Almost all of what you have stated is highly over-generalized blather. I have a good friend with a PharmD who just graduated from law school (well out of top 25, since you seem to be fixated on this). He immediately took a job with a large health care law firm in the big city that he wants to live in.

 

[J ROD]

I know of a few people that have done this. One is a basic lawyer; not necessarily dealing with just pharm. I am not sure what the other one does as far as law goes but I know his main job is in retail pharm since the law business is not that great at the moment.

In law, you need to have some kind of connections to really make it work or come from one of the most prestigious schools.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Almost all of what you have stated is highly over-generalized blather. I have a good friend with a PharmD who just graduated from law school (well out of top 25, since you seem to be fixated on this). He immediately took a job with a large health care law firm in the big city that he wants to live in.

Whoa, one example.

That's amazing.

Who is over-generalizing now?

"I know one dude who has a Pharm.D, got his JD from a crappy law school and now he has an amazing job at Wachtell!"

Sounds a lot like you should be on an info-mercial.

 

[Priapism321]

Whoa, one example.

That's amazing.

Who is over-generalizing now?

"I know one dude who has a Pharm.D, got his JD from a crappy law school and now he has an amazing job at Wachtell!"

Sounds a lot like you should be on an info-mercial.

I am just saying, I don't know that many people, and the only PharmD, JD that I happen to know crushes your "boo hoo, can't do, why do, you have to graduate top 14" bull**** theory.....

 

[Brixius]

I am just saying, I don't know that many people, and the only PharmD, JD that I happen to know crushes your "boo hoo, can't do, why do, you have to graduate top 14" bull**** theory.....

This is why nobody likes to post on this board ... we all need to work on not being such jerks when we disagree with somebody. There is always a polite way of giving a counterpoint to one's argument. In fact, it usually fosters good discussion instead of a chest thumping bitch fest. Of course, that only matters if you're actually interested in discussing topics here instead of scoring points at the expense of the youngsters.

 

[Argentium]

Whoa, one example.

That's amazing.

Who is over-generalizing now?

"I know one dude who has a Pharm.D, got his JD from a crappy law school and now he has an amazing job at Wachtell!"

Sounds a lot like you should be on an info-mercial.

Passion ... T14 is only important for big law and a supreme court clerkship. A PharmD/JD from any school is a prime candidate for the FDA / Industry, and here I'm making a correct generalization

 

[janeno]

I personally believe if you truly want to be a lawyer, I would say go for it. Yes, there are less jobs out there but it holds true for any area these days. If law is your passion and you could be good at it, I believe you should be able to find a job that you desire maybe not at first but eventually.

On the other hand, if you just pursuing JD just because you are not sure what you want to do with your PharmD, I would not go that route. How do you know you will enjoy being a lawyer? In this situation, I think it would be best to complete your rotations and and get some work experience in order to decide what you actually want to do. You might find a pharmacy field that you truly enjoy during your rotations.

 

[diethylamide]

If you don't go to a top 14 law school, you might as well not waste your time. You'll probably end up slinging pills at Rite-Aid or Walgreens either way...

This almost seems like a troll.

You won't make considerably more money with an M.D. either... especially not compared to the debt load you'll have socked yourself with.

Can I ask where you got "Top 14" from, as in why not Top 13 or Top 15, just curious?

 

[diethylamide]

Even if you could command a $40,000 per year premium on top of your PharmD, would the additional 3 years and incumbent $100,000+ debt (on top of your PharmD debt, yea?) really be worth it?

Uh, 40% annual return on a $100000 investment, what is bad about that? What about going to a state school, paying half the tuition or less for PharmD than at private school, and doing law school at night concurrently with pharmD (also at state school)? Has anyone attempted that?

 

[Passion4Sci]

Can I ask where you got "Top 14" from, as in why not Top 13 or Top 15, just curious?

T14 is the generally agreed-upon number of the most successful law schools - Schools that have annual, big law job fairs where recruiters (head hunters) show up.

It's arbitrary, to a large extent, but as you progress through Tier 1 there is a rapid drop-off in expected salaries and job offers.

That's not to say that even HYS graduates get everything they want, but 2009 employment from Stanford's big packet they sent to my wife state proudly that they had 99% employment 6 months after graduation, which would place it in January 2010.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Uh, 40% annual return on a $100000 investment, what is bad about that? What about going to a state school, paying half the tuition or less for PharmD than at private school, and doing law school at night concurrently with pharmD (also at state school)? Has anyone attempted that?

It's certainly possible.

I suppose I am colored by the fact that my wife has her sights set on big law where the name on your J.D. means absolutely more than anything else, and you'd never set foot into one of the firms with anything less than T14 (Nowadays... there are some Of Counsel / Counsel that have JDs from the 80's from lower ranked schools)... and if by some magical power you did get in, you'd never rise about Associate, stuck doing plebeian work forever instead of just cutting your teeth on it.

If you can get a JD from Joe Schmo's School of Law with your Pharm.D and then get a ballin' job at the FDA then I apologize, for I was indeed mistaken.