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So back in first year they told us there are 3 types of dentists, ones that have been sued, ones that will be sued and ones that are being sued.

So just wanted to what everyone's experience was with such things? Do dentists really get targeted that much??
 

Firm

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I've been sued 3 times and about to be 5, but nothing dealing with the practice of dentistry, everything dealing with the business of dentistry. People try to prey on dentists. They will try to get you into bad deals, won't back up their products, won't deliver what you purchased. Many times you have the choice to sue or just not pay for what you didn't get. Some guy tried to shake me down last week for $5000. I hired him to do some direct mail but the postage was some ridiculous price. I paid him for his time designing the piece but he wanted the full amount even though he never purchased the postage.

2 years ago I ordered a pano and it wouldn't fit in my office(their guy came out to measure before delivery). I cancelled the pano but didn't order a different one because I didn't like the other ones. I paid for the guy to come out and measure the space but they sued me because I didnt want to purchase another pano from them.

Last summer I put my office on the cloud. I lease a machine from an IT company, the machine deleted my patient data twice in 6 months. I told them to come get the machine because I'm not paying for it anymore. They wouldn't. I stopped paying. You know where this is going.
 

Daurang

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The USA have 5% of the world's population but make up 66% of its lawyers and 95% of its lawsuits. Prisoners sued because their favorite peanut butter is discontinued. Some moronic kid in Calif just sued the government to stop global warming. A lady sued a haunted house for money due extreme fear, mental anguish, and emotional distress. A hospital patient sued their hospital for negligence in not stopping him from secretly raping another patient. It's all about money and too many hungry lawyers.
 

txaggie03

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Blaming lawyers is like blaming the spoon for obesity.
 
OP
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Good to know that the lawsuits you've faced Firm are for backend work. The more I ask the more common it seems ... is it really that easy to pick up the phone and sue someone?

when does the cost of a lawsuit put off someone actually suing you?
ie. how much does it cost for someone else to sue you?

Thank you
 

txaggie03

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If either the public or the chains decided not to buy or not to make available, respectively, then the obesity problem resultant from the food would not occur.
Yea. Remove fast food. That is the key to stopping obesity.

Surely you cant really believe this?




While I will admit it is a better analogy, the fact remains, the public is the one accountable in the end. Full risk/reward/blame lies with them, and them alone.
 

hmmmmm

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Of course I don't think fast food is the sole or main cause of obesity, it was to make a point. The point being that while lawyers are not fully or even the main blame for idiotic lawsuits, they are partially to blame, because they are intelligent human beings who should have an ethical and moral responsibility to say "No, that's completely ridiculous that you want to sue the prison for discontinuing your favorite peanut butter and replacing it was another peanut butter. I won't take this case and fight for your stupid cause and clog up the legal system and try to make money on something this dumb." Yes, the man who brings the idea of this suit is mostly to blame, but the man who then helps to facilitate it for his advantage is also partially to blame.
The ******ed law suits you cite "staff raping patient", peanut butter replacing, kid sue gov are always thrown out.

the legal system isn't really that broken.

the lawyers who represent the client is really just the same as the unethical dentist in texas. they're taking $ from some dumb client knowing that the case will be thrown out to make a quick buck.

you should watch "hot coffee" the documentary.

companies like mcd use the hot coffee incident to push tort reform when people need to have access to the legal system.
 

djeffreyt

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I've decided this is the dumbest conversation I've decided to enter into in a while and have opted out of it.
 

billythekid

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the original question was still a good one. how often do practicing dentists get sued?
 

txaggie03

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First off, dont be upset or turned off when a conversation (ANY conversation) doesnt favor your ideas completely. This is how humans learn where their moral/ethical/everyday foundation is. It really is ok to be wrong sometimes so long as you understand and walk away stronger.

they are intelligent human beings who should have an ethical and moral responsibility to say "No, that's completely ridiculous that you want to sue the prison for discontinuing your favorite peanut butter and replacing it was another peanut butter. I won't take this case and fight for your stupid cause and clog up the legal system and try to make money on something this dumb.
I agree in principle that this is how the system could operate. But it is not how the system is set up. The lawyers, who actually make money, take cases they think they could win. So while they are somewhat of a checkpoint, they are not a good one for weeding out what you call frivolous lawsuits. Judges, on the other hand, should be a better checkpoint of throwing out junk cases, and usually are. However, sometimes really crafty lawyers can swing cases before a judge and peak the judges interest that this new argument is something that needs to be seen by the legal system. So even judges cant really catch them all.

The whole reason I called you out on your vilification of lawyers is you better be careful in the argument you lay. Because one day you might have that same type of argument used against you and your profession, and you will need to stand up and say why that particular argument is false and misplaced.

So again, I maintain that the system is set up really well, but cant possibly contain all the crazy. It is the individual, the customer, the consumer, that is ultimately responsible for the choices and actions they pursue in their lives.

No legislation can ever protect the individual from themselves, no matter how well crafted.
 

txaggie03

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the original question was still a good one. how often do practicing dentists get sued?
An accurate answer to this question would easily come from a dental malpractice insurance company. Any body know one?
 

tothepark

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First off, dont be upset or turned off when a conversation (ANY conversation) doesnt favor your ideas completely. This is how humans learn where their moral/ethical/everyday foundation is. It really is ok to be wrong sometimes so long as you understand and walk away stronger.



I agree in principle that this is how the system could operate. But it is not how the system is set up. The lawyers, who actually make money, take cases they think they could win. So while they are somewhat of a checkpoint, they are not a good one for weeding out what you call frivolous lawsuits. Judges, on the other hand, should be a better checkpoint of throwing out junk cases, and usually are. However, sometimes really crafty lawyers can swing cases before a judge and peak the judges interest that this new argument is something that needs to be seen by the legal system. So even judges cant really catch them all.

The whole reason I called you out on your vilification of lawyers is you better be careful in the argument you lay. Because one day you might have that same type of argument used against you and your profession, and you will need to stand up and say why that particular argument is false and misplaced.

So again, I maintain that the system is set up really well, but cant possibly contain all the crazy. It is the individual, the customer, the consumer, that is ultimately responsible for the choices and actions they pursue in their lives.

No legislation can ever protect the individual from themselves, no matter how well crafted.
:beat:


So.. can anybody shed light on their personal experiences with lawsuits and their dental practice? My father is a lawyer, and lawsuits against him has always caused a little bit of craziness around the house..
 

theartofzahn

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Yea. Remove fast food. That is the key to stopping obesity.

Surely you cant really believe this?




While I will admit it is a better analogy, the fact remains, the public is the one accountable in the end. Full risk/reward/blame lies with them, and them alone.
Prophylactic full mouth extraction? It's teeth that make people fat.
 

KAIN DDS

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Yea. Remove fast food. That is the key to stopping obesity.

Surely you cant really believe this?




While I will admit it is a better analogy, the fact remains, the public is the one accountable in the end. Full risk/reward/blame lies with them, and them alone.
Yeah corporate marketing , fast food, processed food, false labels, Do not contribute to weight gain! Thats why when I went to Europe I lost weight. Think, pls
 

txaggie03

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Yeah corporate marketing , fast food, processed food, false labels, Do not contribute to weight gain! Thats why when I went to Europe I lost weight. Think, pls
They dont. Nobody forces you to eat those things. Newsflash: Most restaurants sell flavor, not health. If you believe eating out is healthy, I have some property I want to sell you.

And if you can find false labels at the supermarket, contact the FDA.


Hell, by your logic, even supermarkets make people fat, because I lost 10 lbs on my 10-day backpacking trip and there wasnt a single store around for miles.


and getting back on track, here is a decent article I came across on some of the back-end set up of your practice.

http://www.dentaleconomics.com/articles/print/volume-95/issue-5/features/modern-lawsuit-protection.html
 

Ferneezy

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I've been sued 3 times and about to be 5, but nothing dealing with the practice of dentistry, everything dealing with the business of dentistry. People try to prey on dentists. They will try to get you into bad deals, won't back up their products, won't deliver what you purchased. Many times you have the choice to sue or just not pay for what you didn't get. Some guy tried to shake me down last week for $5000. I hired him to do some direct mail but the postage was some ridiculous price. I paid him for his time designing the piece but he wanted the full amount even though he never purchased the postage.

2 years ago I ordered a pano and it wouldn't fit in my office(their guy came out to measure before delivery). I cancelled the pano but didn't order a different one because I didn't like the other ones. I paid for the guy to come out and measure the space but they sued me because I didnt want to purchase another pano from them.

Last summer I put my office on the cloud. I lease a machine from an IT company, the machine deleted my patient data twice in 6 months. I told them to come get the machine because I'm not paying for it anymore. They wouldn't. I stopped paying. You know where this is going.
in my eyes this thread ends at post number 2.

that said, it's comforting to know (despite the anecdote) most actions arise from the business of the business and not explicit malpractice. i can be okay with that.
 

Firm

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Moral of the story. Neither side wins with a lawsuit, only the lawyers make money. Never take them to court. Only use them if you have to in order to gain leverage. Try to stay out of them. Talk it out as much as possible first.
Patients never sue their friends. If the patient feels that you truly have their best interest, even if you make a mistake they still will not sue. If you make a mistake, fix it as quickly as possible without admitting that you made a mistake. Don't be stubborn.
 

KAIN DDS

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They dont. Nobody forces you to eat those things. Newsflash: Most restaurants sell flavor, not health. If you believe eating out is healthy, I have some property I want to sell you.

And if you can find false labels at the supermarket, contact the FDA.


Hell, by your logic, even supermarkets make people fat, because I lost 10 lbs on my 10-day backpacking trip and there wasnt a single store around for miles.


and getting back on track, here is a decent article I came across on some of the back-end set up of your practice.

http://www.dentaleconomics.com/articles/print/volume-95/issue-5/features/modern-lawsuit-protection.html
There u go exactly the American diet is the reason u took the long way but you got there! Sorry I want a friendly argument and if yr gonna challenge me u have have something deeper than common rhetoric, puerile humor, and good guesses.
 

yappy

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Once a paralegal friend was bragging to me about how often they were winning cases against dentists. All of them were endo cases.

I was really disinterested in the whole conversation; but, got kinda pissed when she suggested that someday I can get paid 300/hr as a expert witness/consult for their firm as it's "really good money"...

F-that.
 

KAIN DDS

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Once a paralegal friend was bragging to me about how often they were winning cases against dentists. All of them were endo cases.

I was really disinterested in the whole conversation; but, got kinda pissed when she suggested that someday I can get paid 300/hr as a expert witness/consult for their firm as it's "really good money"...

F-that.
Wow !
 

txaggie03

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There u go exactly the American diet is the reason u took the long way but you got there! Sorry I want a friendly argument and if yr gonna challenge me u have have something deeper than common rhetoric, puerile humor, and good guesses.
If you can't understand personal responsibility for one's life choices, you are correct, we are done having an argument.

I refuse to blame others for anything I dont like, while giving myself credit for the good.
 

txaggie03

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Once a paralegal friend was bragging to me about how often they were winning cases against dentists. All of them were endo cases.

I was really disinterested in the whole conversation; but, got kinda pissed when she suggested that someday I can get paid 300/hr as a expert witness/consult for their firm as it's "really good money"...

F-that.
That said, what were the specifics of the cases? If it was truly bad dentistry, then I have a hard time sticking up for the dentist. However, if the dentist was doing what they were supposed to and freak accidents were happening, then I totally understand your disgust.
 

KAIN DDS

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If you can't understand personal responsibility for one's life choices, you are correct, we are done having an argument.

I refuse to blame others for anything I dont like, while giving myself credit for the good.
Everyday of yr life yr being conned, food is just one way! As aware as i am instill am a victim of it. Lol can u imagine others.

My wife doesn't like the ****ty American diet, she wasn't raised on it so it's easy for her to pass on the junk diet.
 

yappy

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I see what you're saying. She did not talk about the details of the cases other than they were endo cases that were performed by dentists. She mentioned that endo cases were their most successful type of cases to pursue for malpractice.

I didn't mean to come off as brash in my last posting. If I did it was in response to me remembering her arrogant, gitty tone when speaking about how she and her law practice had overcome the dentists and were awarded funds. Personally, I would not want to be involved in malpractice suites as a case reviewer because, without going into it, I don't like the way the current medical-malpractice system works.


That said, what were the specifics of the cases? If it was truly bad dentistry, then I have a hard time sticking up for the dentist. However, if the dentist was doing what they were supposed to and freak accidents were happening, then I totally understand your disgust.
 
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thank you to everyone who stuck to the topic and shared their thoughts, perhaps everyone else can get their ego fix elsewhere
 

txaggie03

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I see what you're saying. She did not talk about the details of the cases other than they were endo cases that were performed by dentists. She mentioned that endo cases were their most successful type of cases to pursue for malpractice.

I didn't mean to come off as brash in my last posting. If I did it was in response to me remembering her arrogant, gitty tone when speaking about how she and her law practice had overcome the dentists and were awarded funds. Personally, I would not want to be involved in malpractice suites as a case reviewer because, without going into it, I don't like the way the current medical-malpractice system works.

Do you know if the endo malpractice cases were against an endodontist or a general dentist performing the procedures? The reason I ask is because I am wondering if it is just simply easier to present a general dentist as not having the 'level of expertise' of the specialist, and therefore show that the general dentist was not administering the standard of care.

I sure dont want to think that is the case, but I cant help but speculate this could be the reason. I can understand getting turned off by her giddiness. While it is her job, you would think she could show a little restraint with her job satisfaction when speaking to a dentist.
 

tinman831

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In my ethics course in dental school, our professor (DMD, JD) told us that every dentist will be sued at least once in their lifetime and that failed endodontic cases are the biggest reason people get sued.
 

txaggie03

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In my ethics course in dental school, our professor (DMD, JD) told us that every dentist will be sued at least once in their lifetime and that failed endodontic cases are the biggest reason people get sued.
frequency of suits vs frequency in patient's favor? or was that not part of the info given?
 

tinman831

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frequency of suits vs frequency in patient's favor? or was that not part of the info given?
Number of suits initiated, not suits in the patients favor. I figure with appropriate documentation and consents, most endo cases should be in the providers favor unless theirs gross negligence involved.