Lead poisoning and FEP levels

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

zeevee

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
123
Reaction score
23
Lead inhibits 2 enzymes in heme synthessis ;ALAD and ferrochelatase .

Ferrochelatase is the last enzyme so it makes sense that protoporphyrrins can accumulate but what about ALAD ?
If there is no ALAD( which is the second enzyme upstream )how can the porphyrrin ring even form ?

Summary of question : 1) what is the FEP level in lead poisoning ?

Also some extensions to the above question 2) what is the FEP level in sideroblastic anemia ?
3) what are the lab values for both these anemias ?

Forum greats , please step in .Exam round the corner .:shrug:
 
Lead inhibits 2 enzymes in heme synthessis ;ALAD and ferrochelatase .
ALAD - means delta ala dehydrogenase, I am guessing. This is your RLE. Heme synthesis uses delta ala synthase. The testwriter likes to stack these options next to each other, so be organized with it.

I looked up your questions in my reading source, this is what it says:
1) what is the FEP level in lead poisoning ?
It just says will very high and is the best test, no number given.

Also some extensions to the above question 2) what is the FEP level in sideroblastic anemia ?
3) what are the lab values for both these anemias ?
Sideroblastic anemia is microcytic, so it's MCV will be below 70(I think that's the cutoff). I don't know specifically about FEP.
 
ALAD - means delta ala dehydrogenase, I am guessing. This is your RLE. Heme synthesis uses delta ala synthase. The testwriter likes to stack these options next to each other, so be organized with it.

I looked up your questions in my reading source, this is what it says:

It just says will very high and is the best test, no number given.


Sideroblastic anemia is microcytic, so it's MCV will be below 70(I think that's the cutoff). I don't know specifically about FEP.



Ala synthase is the first enzyme in heme and protoporphyrin synthesis and Ala dehydratase is the second .Ferrochelatase is the last .
Lead inhibits the second and the last enzymes .That is established .

The question is that if Ala dehydratase enzyme is not working how can protoporhyrrin even form in the first place let alone FEP levels rise ?

If ONLY ferrochelatase was deficient it would make sense because it is the last enzyme in the pathways and everything behind it will accumulate but how does it makde sense for Ala dehydratase which controls the second step of the pathway ?
 
Ah this stuff is so technical, I haven't seen practice questions get this specific, they just ask about the two enzymes, but I'll look it up again:
The question is that if Ala dehydratase enzyme is not working how can protoporhyrrin even form in the first place let alone FEP levels rise ?
Ok, so let's get organized. We are talking about lead poisoning. That involves the enzymes delta ala dehydratase (purpose: RLE) and ferrochetolase (purpose: to add iron 2+ in the middle). These enzymes are blocked by lead. The actual protoporphyrins comes from succinyl CoA, which is the substrate at the very beginning. Succinyl CoA makes ALL ringed structures, like this, ringed amino acids, and cholesterol. So since Succinyl CoA is at the very beginning and everything is backing up at the the RLE, that's why you will have an increased in protoporphyrins and FEP (free erythrocyte protoporphyrins).
 
what is RLE ?
even if succinyl CoA is there the cycle cannot go past delta aminolevolunic acid .
Screenshot 2016-04-02 20.09.10.png
 
RLE = rate limiting enzyme, which is delta ala synthase. Succinyl CoA is the very first substrate, then comes delta ala synthase. dALA synthase is inhibited, causing Succinyl CoA to "back up" and increase. So you have an increase in rings. Just look at your diagram carefully, you will understand it.
 
It is important to recognize that enzyme inhibitors do not turn off all copies of the enzyme, but rather slow down pathways at specific points. This causes accumulation of precursors immediately upstream of the site where the inhibitors act. An analogy is driving on a highway with two lane reductions between the departure and destination locations. Before each lane reduction, there will be a buildup of cars. After each lane reduction there will still be some cars on the road. Compared to the same highway without lane reductions, there will overall be less cars arriving at the destination over any given period of time.

Lead (a heavy metal) inhibits ALA dehydratase (ALAD, aka porphobilinogen synthetase) and ferrochelatase. Lead inhibits ALAD by displacing its zinc moiety and results in accumulation of delta-aminolevulinic acid (d-ALA) and decreased porphobilinogen. Lead also inhibits the physiologic activity of ferrochelatase. Under physiologic conditions, ferrochelatase catalyzes the incorporation of Fe2+ to the substrate protoporphyrin IX to create a heme product. In lead poisoning, Zn2+ is incorporated into protoporphyrin IX to form zinc protoporphyrin (ZPP). The diagnostic workup begins with a positive environmental or occupational history in children (e.g. lead paint ingestion) or adults (inhalation of lead-containing compounds). Serum lead levels will be elevated. The second step is to measure the non-heme protophyrin levels, either ZPP or free protophyrins in erythrocytes. UpToDate mentions that some labs report ZPP levels as FEP (Free Erythrocyte Protophyrins). Both are elevated in lead poisoning. Other lab tests will be used to assess the severity of effects (e.g. CBC may show microcytic anemia, renal function tests (Cr, BUN, urinalysis) may show renal damage). Abdominal Xrays may be ordered in children to confirm the source (e,g, radioopaque lead paint chips in the GI system suggesting ingestion.)

Sideroblastic anemias are a type of microcytic anemia caused by pathologic ring sideroblasts in the bone marrow. In one type, there is a defect in 5-aminolevulinic acid synthase (ASAS) that converts succinyl CoA from the TCA cycle to d-ALA that is used in heme synthesis. If protoporphyrin levels are measured (ZPP or FEP), they will be decreased due to the upstream defect in the heme synthesis pathway and no downstream defects (e.g. ferrochelatase deficiency). The diagnostic workup begins with anemia detected on a CBC. The mean corpuscular volume (MCV) will be low (<80 fL). Iron studies will show normal to high iron and ferritin as less iron will be incorporated into heme. A smear of a bone marrow aspirate will show sideroblasts, which are the hallmark of these diseases. A further workup will be needed to determine the type of sideroblastic anemia, but rarely includes protoporphyrin levels.

I hope this helps.

Live
 
RLE = rate limiting enzyme, which is delta ala synthase. Succinyl CoA is the very first substrate, then comes delta ala synthase. dALA synthase is inhibited, causing Succinyl CoA to "back up" and increase. So you have an increase in rings. Just look at your diagram carefully, you will understand it.

Increased rings = succinyl CoA ?

Protoporphyrrin is a ring structure but it is not the same as succinyl CoA .

what is the difference between FEP and the rings formed by Succinyl Coa back up ? If succinyl Coa back up was to increase FEP levels then FEP would be raised in sideroblastic anemia as well .


It is important to recognize that enzyme inhibitors do not turn off all copies of the enzyme, but rather slow down pathways at specific points. This causes accumulation of precursors immediately upstream of the site where the inhibitors act. An analogy is driving on a highway with two lane reductions between the departure and destination locations

Thankyou live ,
I was looking for exactly this fine point to justify the FEP accumulation in Lead poisoning .
The entire detail that followed was very helpful .Thanks Again

Trivia question, do you know why the most common age of lead ingestion is at 1 year of age for children in poverty stricken areas?

Probably because nutritional anemias lead to pica and they like to binge on paint 🙂

Thanks for your help too .You taught me other details in the cycle that I didnt know before .
 
Trivia question, do you know why the most common age of lead ingestion is at 1 year of age for children in poverty stricken areas?
Because they are in the sensorimotor stage of development and are putting stuff in their mouths?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
Because they are in the sensorimotor stage of development and are putting stuff in their mouths?
Yeah, correct. Lead apparently has a really sweet taste like candy (don't know from personal experience, lol), children start walking around 1 year of age. So if they are hungry and poor, they start eating lead chips off the wall.

Probably because nutritional anemias lead to pica and they like to binge on paint
Pica is more for pregnant patients, they will binge on weird foods like ice (World Q)
 
Yeah, correct. Lead apparently has a really sweet taste like candy (don't know from personal experience, lol), children start walking around 1 year of age. So if they are hungry and poor, they start eating lead chips off the wall.


Pica is more for pregnant patients, they will binge on weird foods like ice (World Q)

Pica is common in both children and women .There can be many underlying causes emotional as well as nutritional deficiencies ( specifically mentioned in UW question is zinc and iron deficiency ) .
Since mention was of children from poverty stricken areas so iron deficiency anemia leading to pica in children of all ages is probable.
 
Pica is common in both children and women .There can be many underlying causes emotional as well as nutritional deficiencies ( specifically mentioned in UW question is zinc and iron deficiency ) .
Since mention was of children from poverty stricken areas so iron deficiency anemia leading to pica in children of all ages is probable.
Pica as an answer is possible, sure, but not probable. Your go to answer for a case of pica is 1) Pregnant woman 2) Children, in that order. I've only seen 1 World Q related to pica, and it was a pregnant woman. Even that was surprising, I thought that would more of a step 2 topic. On a practice question, if pregnant woman wasn't available, then you could go with a child and be right, I agree.
 
Yeah. Succinyl-CoA causes an increase in any ringed structure. I don't know more than that.

An increase in succinyl-CoA will increase certain ringed structures through different pathways that converge on the TCA. This includes the downstream porphyrin rings of heme, and upstream glucose, aromatic amino acids, and cholesterol. However, an inhibition of a step of any pathway will cause a decrease of the downstream ringed structure (e.g. ASAS found in sideroblastic anemia will cause a decrease in porphyrin rings).

url


Kind Regards,
Live
 
Top