Leadership Positions in Med School

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Arkangeloid

Arkangeloid

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So in undergrad, I got into leadership positions in a number of clubs I didn't care about just so I could get into medical school. Now that I'm here, I've been mainly participating in extracurriculars (health fairs, mentoring nights, interest groups, etc) that I'm actually interested in, but I haven't gotten any leadership positions out of them.

So my question is: to what extent do leadership positions in these clubs matter for residency purposes? Should I shotgun apply to random leadership positions in the hopes of getting a few (though admittedly I'm one of the least popular and charismatic people in the class, so my chances of winning an election are next to none).
 
I honestly wouldn't put too much stock in leadership positions unless you care about the activity, as you say. You had to be a leader in one way or another to get into med school, so you're not really trying to prove anything in that capacity to PDs. However, particular leadership positions can benefit you in other ways, i.e. being president of a specialty interest group gives you de facto access to physicians in that specialty. Or, you can be like me, and cold e-mail whoever the hell you want.
 
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They're not that important. I'd recommend doing it if you're interested in it. Getting into residency != getting into medical school. The hoops you need to jump through are no longer volunteering and leadership positions. It's research (for more competitive fields).
 
evilbooyaa said:
They're not that important. I'd recommend doing it if you're interested in it. Getting into residency != getting into medical school. The hoops you need to jump through are no longer volunteering and leadership positions. It's research (for more competitive fields).
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Well, I already have a research job lined up with a professor (MD) for this summer, FWIW.

But I decided only to take a year off for research if I actually think it will make a difference for me getting into a competitive field (though the only fields I'm interested in atm are IM and Psych, which aren't that competitive I think).
 
Arkangeloid said:
So my question is: to what extent do leadership positions in these clubs matter for residency purposes?
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They do not matter even the tiniest little bit unless you have literally no interests or hobbies, in which case they can take the place of those and give you something to talk about during interviews. However, you would be much better off pursuing your own interests and hobbies outside of medical school because these things will form a personality on paper and leave an impression on the person who interviewed you as well as dominate the majority of chit-chat in your interviews. When people discuss candidates, they don't say "the guy who organized a food drive that one time for his med school," they say "the guy with that youtube video," "the violinist, you that girl who used to be in a symphony," "the hunter," "the weightlifter," etc. That's how they remember you. That and your appearance (which is why you don't want to wear anything other than a dark suit, but that's another discussion...).

Goes something like this...
"I really liked James. Lets see, he was the leader of the student education committee at university of..."
"Who?"
"You know, the guy with the beard who brews his own beer"
"Oh yeah, that guy was awesome, we should definitely rank him"
"What were his board scores?"
"Average"
"Good enough, put him at number 2 and give him a call"
 
They matter if they are significant leadership positions. Things like clubs at school do not really count. National positions, however, get noticed.
 
Its funny. You can have a panel of residency PDs tell an M1 class that ECs dont matter 1 iota and there will still be those 3-4 people in the class who stress themselves out to try and join everything. Its like they cant deprogram themselves..


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cbrons said:
Its funny. You can have a panel of residency PDs tell an M1 class that ECs dont matter 1 iota and there will still be those 3-4 people in the class who stress themselves out to try and join everything. Its like they cant deprogram themselves..


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Lol it's way more than 3-4 in my class.
 
Arkangeloid said:
though admittedly I'm one of the least popular and charismatic people in the class, so my chances of winning an election are next to none.
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how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people.jpg
 
mcloaf said:
Lol it's way more than 3-4 in my class.
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Over half the school, at my place. But these guys are so ridiculously neurotic that I heard that last year, the class above us almost started a riot in the lecture room after, at the exam review, the psych professor refused to throw out one obscure question on child developmental psychiatry. This was on an exam where the average is over 90%. Seriously, who cares that much? This isn't STEP I or a Shelf exam.
 
Arkangeloid said:
So in undergrad, I got into leadership positions in a number of clubs I didn't care about just so I could get into medical school. Now that I'm here, I've been mainly participating in extracurriculars (health fairs, mentoring nights, interest groups, etc) that I'm actually interested in, but I haven't gotten any leadership positions out of them.

So my question is: to what extent do leadership positions in these clubs matter for residency purposes? Should I shotgun apply to random leadership positions in the hopes of getting a few (though admittedly I'm one of the least popular and charismatic people in the class, so my chances of winning an election are next to none).
Click to expand...

You're apparently also a below average student in your class. You have no business getting involved in extracurriculars if you are barely staying above water academically.
 
dyspareunia said:
You're apparently also a below average student in your class. You have no business getting involved in extracurriculars if you are barely staying above water academically.
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You can't spend your whole day studying dude. Besides, I have fun at health fairs and mentoring nights (though that fun may come from all the drinking afterwards).
 
Arkangeloid said:
You can't spend your whole day studying dude. Besides, I have fun at health fairs and mentoring nights (though that fun may come from all the drinking afterwards).
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You're talking about two extremes here. One being study all day and do nothing else, the other being get involved in leadership at the expense of studying. If you're not doing well in school you shouldn't be adding distractions and responsibilities to your plate.
 
dyspareunia said:
You're talking about two extremes here. One being study all day and do nothing else, the other being get involved in leadership at the expense of studying. If you're not doing well in school you shouldn't be adding distractions and responsibilities to your plate.
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ECs at the expense of studying? Let him decide whether he's losing studying time or losing TV/gaming/drinking time? I wouldn't be so quick to assume that everyone who is average or below average in medical school should have no additional 'distractions and responsibilities' in their life.
 
evilbooyaa said:
ECs at the expense of studying? Let him decide whether he's losing studying time or losing TV/gaming/drinking time? I wouldn't be so quick to assume that everyone who is average or below average in medical school should have no additional 'distractions and responsibilities' in their life.
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Mostly I'm losing net surfing time, I find that those ECs help me focus my studies. Regardless, I'm probably among the least involved people in my class.
 
evilbooyaa said:
ECs at the expense of studying? Let him decide whether he's losing studying time or losing TV/gaming/drinking time? I wouldn't be so quick to assume that everyone who is average or below average in medical school should have no additional 'distractions and responsibilities' in their life.
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Someone who complains that they are below average and would be "soooooo happy" if they could be an average student should not take on extra responsibilities.. Or should stop complaining about being a below average student.

Arkangeloid said:
I don't know why people complain about being average students. If I could be an average student I would be soooooo happy...
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Arkangeloid said:
They're giving me 9 days to prepare for remediation for the Head+Neck Anatomy exam (also, I'll be using Spring Break to my advantage, they didn't think of that!). I know that Head+Neck is a really stupid unit filled with minute nonsense I'm never going to use in real life, but you gotta do what you gotta do to survive, namsayin?

And then I'll go ham on the booze afterwards.
Click to expand...

Arkangeloid said:
If MS-1 is the easy part of school, then I am truly doomed. 🙁
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Arkangeloid said:
I do enough bitching about medical school myself to watch other people to do it in my spare time.
Click to expand...
 
auburnO5 said:
Nicolas-Cage-Trying-to-hold-in-laughter.gif



But seriously OP, EC's and 'leadership positions' matter very little when it comes to residency interviewing. I was actually surprised at how little they mattered.
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Yeah I know, but they're actually some fun at my school!

Maybe cause we spend a lot of time standing around doing nothing and socialising, then go out to drink and socialize more.
 
I'm always so shocked when people say ECs aren't important.

What about professional organizations? Are they worth the fees? Is it worth joining something like AMA (besides the networking of course) to help the resume?
 
1badmamajama said:
I'm always so shocked when people say ECs aren't important.

What about professional organizations? Are they worth the fees? Is it worth joining something like AMA (besides the networking of course) to help the resume?
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What exactly does that show about you other than that you are able to fill out a form and mail somebody a check?
 
mcloaf said:
What exactly does that show about you other than that you are able to fill out a form and mail somebody a check?
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womp.

still in there for the networking advantages, but good to know.
 
^Is this the reason people are so obsessive about AMA? I haven't figured out why so many of my classmates are fanatics about this organization; what does it do for you, exactly?
 
I'm signing up for AMA for the Kaplan qbank discount and that's it.
 
SilverCat said:
^Is this the reason people are so obsessive about AMA? I haven't figured out why so many of my classmates are fanatics about this organization; what does it do for you, exactly?
Click to expand...

Sends you a million letters asking for a joining fee. Or takes your money, gives you some flashcards and then ****s on you when you're an attending from what I've seen
 
1badmamajama said:
I'm always so shocked when people say ECs aren't important.

What about professional organizations? Are they worth the fees? Is it worth joining something like AMA (besides the networking of course) to help the resume?
Click to expand...
No. And what do you mean "networking". Cracks me up when these EC obsessed kids say "oh Im just doing AMA it so I can "network" , "oh im just doing proctology interest group to " network" with visiting proctologists," "oh im just doing <insert race here> students association so I can network at conferences".

Most of them a. never meet a single person with any power, status or prestige and b. spend an inordinate amount of time writing emails, planning community events, and doing other things that increase their stress level. Even the ones who do "Network" find out that most of the actual physicians and people with the ability to help you get a good residency dont have time to go on AMA junkets just to interface with know-nothing preclinical students.

Anyway you may disagree but this is just my observation from watching my own class and several other M1 classes over the past few years. "Network".. rofl.


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Psai said:
Sends you a million letters asking for a joining fee. Or takes your money, gives you some flashcards and then ****s on you when you're an attending from what I've seen
Click to expand...
Those AMA bastards are always asking med students for donations , ostensibly to "fight for the future of american medicine!!$&@@@" can you believe the gall of these DC-based political hacks? Here we have med students going into hundreds of thousands in debt and these overpaid worms want kids to care about the medicare SGR fix. What a bunch of rubbish. I mean the *****s agreed to be political stooges for the obamacare PR campaign and they couldnt even get the medicare payments fixed (apparently a problem for many years), a single new residency program or anything that med students or pcps would be interested in as a concession. All they got was an adoption of their coding system (and millions of dollars for it at that) so the human trashcans with eyeballs at the AMA could keep on living the easy K street life at the expense of actual doctors. Cracks me up.


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cbrons said:
No. And what do you mean "networking". Cracks me up when these EC obsessed kids say "oh Im just doing AMA it so I can "network" , "oh im just doing proctology interest group to " network" with visiting proctologists," "oh im just doing <insert race here> students association so I can network at conferences".

Most of them a. never meet a single person with any power, status or prestige and b. spend an inordinate amount of time writing emails, planning community events, and doing other things that increase their stress level. Even the ones who do "Network" find out that most of the actual physicians and people with the ability to help you get a good residency dont have time to go on AMA junkets just to interface with know-nothing preclinical students.

Anyway you may disagree but this is just my observation from watching my own class and several other M1 classes over the past few years. "Network".. rofl.


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Click to expand...

Definitely agree. The only place to meet useful people are the specialty-specific big events that everyone in the field goes to. And even then, it's hard as balls to actually get someone to give 3 craps about you.
 
Arkangeloid said:
Should I shotgun apply to random leadership positions in the hopes of getting a few (though admittedly I'm one of the least popular and charismatic people in the class, so my chances of winning an election are next to none).
Click to expand...

Being uncharismatic will hurt you more than not having leadership positions. Residencies look for "leadership qualities." That could be evidenced by having leadership positions, or it can come across in the interview by your professionalism, organization, and charisma. Having a leadership position could also help with the latter insofar as it could throw you into situations that encourage the development of those kinds of qualities/skills (e.g. working on a team project that you're invested in, advocating for students to the administration, networking with peers at an AMA conference).

On another note, a lot of people will knock our AMA without a real understanding of how hard lobbying is in the current financial and political climate (especially for doctors, for whom one in five are in society's top 1% by income), our AMA's past accomplishments, or the extent of our AMA's involvement with non-lobbying areas of medicine.

"What does it do for you?" Our AMA sponsors and appoints medical student members to the leadership of the LCME (the accrediting body of all MD programs), the NRMP (the Match), the NBME (the creators of the USMLE and shelf exams), the Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs (the group that maintains the profession's Code of Ethics that state licensing boards and legal authorities follow as a guide for policy). Getting involved with the AMA means opportunities to get involved on things that matter to medical students. Our AMA also sponsors the ACGME (the accrediting body of all residency programs). It publishes JAMA. It maintains FRIEDA (the primary database about residency programs). It recently awarded 11 medical schools a million dollars each to develop innovative new curricula, because accelerating change in medical education is one of three core areas of the current AMA's strategic focus (the others are shaping delivery and payment models, and improving health outcomes). Our AMA actively lobbies to protect and expand federal (Medicare) funding for residency positions.

You may remain unconvinced. Consider an analogous situation. Consider what the government does for you as a citizen, why you pay taxes, and why you vote. Your approach to organized medicine should be similar.
 
chronicidal said:
Being uncharismatic will hurt you more than not having leadership positions. Residencies look for "leadership qualities." That could be evidenced by having leadership positions, or it can come across in the interview by your professionalism, organization, and charisma. Having a leadership position could also help with the latter insofar as it could throw you into situations that encourage the development of those kinds of qualities/skills (e.g. working on a team project that you're invested in, advocating for students to the administration, networking with peers at an AMA conference).

On another note, a lot of people will knock our AMA without a real understanding of how hard lobbying is in the current financial and political climate (especially for doctors, for whom one in five are in society's top 1% by income), our AMA's past accomplishments, or the extent of our AMA's involvement with non-lobbying areas of medicine.

"What does it do for you?" Our AMA sponsors and appoints medical student members to the leadership of the LCME (the accrediting body of all MD programs), the NRMP (the Match), the NBME (the creators of the USMLE and shelf exams), the Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs (the group that maintains the profession's Code of Ethics that state licensing boards and legal authorities follow as a guide for policy). Getting involved with the AMA means opportunities to get involved on things that matter to medical students. Our AMA also sponsors the ACGME (the accrediting body of all residency programs). It publishes JAMA. It maintains FRIEDA (the primary database about residency programs). It recently awarded 11 medical schools a million dollars each to develop innovative new curricula, because accelerating change in medical education is one of three core areas of the current AMA's strategic focus (the others are shaping delivery and payment models, and improving health outcomes). Our AMA actively lobbies to protect and expand federal (Medicare) funding for residency positions.

You may remain unconvinced. Consider an analogous situation. Consider what the government does for you as a citizen, why you pay taxes, and why you vote. Your approach to organized medicine should be similar.
Click to expand...

The AMA also has a vested interest in the system due to their govt. monopoly over CPT codes. The amount of money they gain from this makes up MUCH more of their overall revenue, than from members dues.Their immediate endorsement of Obamacare, while not extracting any concessions for this endorsement: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39586.html, is why their membership is quite low, besides medical students who are only joining AMA to build up their residency CV.
 
Arkangeloid said:
So in undergrad, I got into leadership positions in a number of clubs I didn't care about just so I could get into medical school. Now that I'm here, I've been mainly participating in extracurriculars (health fairs, mentoring nights, interest groups, etc) that I'm actually interested in, but I haven't gotten any leadership positions out of them.

So my question is: to what extent do leadership positions in these clubs matter for residency purposes? Should I shotgun apply to random leadership positions in the hopes of getting a few (though admittedly I'm one of the least popular and charismatic people in the class, so my chances of winning an election are next to none).
Click to expand...

It depends on the specialty, but overall, the quality matters more than quantity. If you're more passionate about something, it will show, vs. just doing it for the sake of resume building bc you'll be questioned about it in interviews.

Overally though, I would concentrate on building research or being an officer in the specialty interest group you're interested in, rather than being an officer of AMSA.
 
1badmamajama said:
I'm always so shocked when people say ECs aren't important.

What about professional organizations? Are they worth the fees? Is it worth joining something like AMA (besides the networking of course) to help the resume?
Click to expand...

😆😆😆
 
1badmamajama said:
Yall can laugh, but I think networking is important. It's made an impact in my life. It's how I met my mentor and learned about cool opportunities.
:prof:
Click to expand...

Agreed, it is foolish to just blindly state that these positions will not help under any circumstance. It depends on how well a person uses these positions/experiences to benefit themselves. Leadership positions come to those with leadership positions. By being involved early, I have had multiple positions essentially given to me because I am in contact with those with decision making power. The point is to do something significant with the position. Do not just join the AMA and put it on your resume, become a delegate, then sectional delegate, then catapult that into a position with your specialty society. There are a plethora of opportunities. If you hate the AMA, fine do something with your specialty society only. Leadership positions create more leadership positions.
 
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