Leadership role?

[richardlo]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi all,

I have been working in a lab (immunology and aging) for more than 2 years and have published two papers (one as a 2nd author and one as a 1st author, both journals have impact factors higher than 6). I went to a community college for the first two years and went to Berkeley for the 3rd and 4th year. GPA is 3.95 for the first two years and 3.73 for Berkeley (3.68 for science). MCAT is 38. I am going to finish my lab work soon because there is an interesting social project (studying long-term care issues) I want to work on (and hopefully get a non-science-related LOR). I am thinking that I need to understand not just the hardcore science aspect of aging but also the "social" aspect of it. I have also arranged for some clinical experiences (shadowing) in a rhematology clinic later.

I have talked to a guy who is from Hopkins and he says my package looks okay and should have no problem finding an average school to accept me, but I lack leadership role and this is a major weakness. I am wondering how important leadership factors into M.D./Ph.D. application. I spent most of my free time working and didn't have much extracirricular activities in college. If I take a break in research and spend half a year or so working on non-basic-research-related things (i.e. working on a social project, volunteering a lot of time in the Red Cross), will that be viewed as "not-100%-committed" to research?

Thank you very much.

 

[RxnMan]

1st of all, your numbers seem to be fine for the MD part of the program. Your research experience will help greatly with the PhD portion of your application - so you got those covered. You asked about 'leadership' experiences, and these aren't really looked for in MD/PhD apps. What you haven't hit on yet, and will be needed for the MD app, is clinical experience.

You mentioned shadowing, and that's great. In general, you need something more in-depth than that. As one ADCOM SDN poster says, you need to be close enough "to smell the patients." You can think of it as gaining interview fodder. Will you gain a enough of an idea from your rheumatologist experience to know what's medicine like in this country? Will you know what it's like to have someone bleed/puke on you? Will you figure out if you like working with patient's? You need to know some of these things about yourself, and clinical experiences will help you discover them. I suggest a regular (few hours weekly) commitment to some service (ED is the big one) That'll give you time to get to know some of the staff and see better what things are like in medicine. This will fit in with everything else you're doing - there's no need to quit your research (unless you want a break...)

 

[MrMunkily]

I can't imagine anyone begrudging you that time. It sounds like it'll be well spent.

Some schools place more emphasis on having social/medical/leadership experiences than others. You're obviously quite a successful undergrad researcher and I don't think any institution would take issue with you doing something worthwhile other than research.

 

[richardlo]

I can't imagine anyone begrudging you that time. It sounds like it'll be well spent.

Some schools place more emphasis on having social/medical/leadership experiences than others. You're obviously quite a successful undergrad researcher and I don't think any institution would take issue with you doing something worthwhile other than research.

Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, I am not the "successful undergrad researcher"; I have already graduated from college for almost three years and I work full-time in a lab. Therefore, I guess publications are more of the "norm" (instead of being the "wow" factor).

 

[Neuronix]

I have been working in a lab (immunology and aging) for more than 2 years and have published two papers (one as a 2nd author and one as a 1st author, both journals have impact factors higher than 6). I went to a community college for the first two years and went to Berkeley for the 3rd and 4th year. GPA is 3.95 for the first two years and 3.73 for Berkeley (3.68 for science). MCAT is 38.

Your application sounds very good. In general, if the rest of your app is solid I'd imagine you'll end up in a mid to top-tier MD/PhD program.

I am going to finish my lab work soon because there is an interesting social project (studying long-term care issues) I want to work on (and hopefully get a non-science-related LOR). I am thinking that I need to understand not just the hardcore science aspect of aging but also the "social" aspect of it. I have also arranged for some clinical experiences (shadowing) in a rhematology clinic later.

If this is what you'd like to do, go for it! That being said, if you're interested in a basic science MD/PhD, this research won't count as much as your basic science research did. It's sad to say, but if you're going for a basic science PhD, you might want to continue doing basic science research...

I have talked to a guy who is from Hopkins and he says my package looks okay and should have no problem finding an average school to accept me, but I lack leadership role and this is a major weakness. I am wondering how important leadership factors into M.D./Ph.D. application.

IMO, I think he's scared you too much. In general, extracirriculars outside of research don't matter that much for MD/PhD programs. They can only help, but a lack of them doesn't generally sink your app. Maybe Hopkins is an exception, but who wants to live in Baltimore anyways? 😉

I spent most of my free time working and didn't have much extracirricular activities in college. If I take a break in research and spend half a year or so working on non-basic-research-related things (i.e. working on a social project, volunteering a lot of time in the Red Cross), will that be viewed as "not-100%-committed" to research?

If you want to do those things, you should do them. This is your life, and if you feel like that's what you want to do before you sign away yourself for another 8 years, you should do that. That being said, I don't think you need to do any of this. I'm scared that your conversation with "that Hopkins guy" may have scared you in this direction unnecessarily. i.e. Is this what you wanted to do before you talked to whoever that person was? In any case, volunteering could help you, but more basic science research, abstracts, posters, publications, etc will help you more. If you do continue doing basic science, just do some shadowing and volunteering on the side, say 5 hours a week of each for half a year. That would probably be enough for most MD/PhD interviewers and adcoms.

One other thing to think about. I'm not sure when you took the MCAT, but MCAT scores will expire. Most schools don't want them to be over 3 years old. Sure, you could always retake it, but why take risks when you already have a 38 🙂.

Good luck!
Eric

 

[richardlo]

Thank you for your comments. I took MCAT in April 2005, and I am planning to apply in summer 2007. It will be a bit more than 2 years old. Do you know of any school that will not accept my score?

I just started my second project not too long ago. I think that it will be at least another year (or two) before we have enough data to publish another paper; therefore, I don't think I will get any more first-authored paper published between now and the time I submit my application. Moreover, my work schedule is quite demanding and I don't have much free time to do shadowing or other volunteer services. I am thinking of taking a break and work on something that interests me. However, I don't want to be seen as not being committed to research.

Thank you again for everyone's help.

 

[Neuronix]

Thank you for your comments. I took MCAT in April 2005, and I am planning to apply in summer 2007. It will be a bit more than 2 years old. Do you know of any school that will not accept my score?

I think you're okay after 2 years, but you should check me on that to be safe.

I just started my second project not too long ago. I think that it will be at least another year (or two) before we have enough data to publish another paper; therefore, I don't think I will get any more first-authored paper published between now and the time I submit my application.

Just because you don't have a first-authored publication doesn't mean your research isn't valuable. Having 3-4 years of research is alot better than having 2, and even if you don't get publications, posters, abstracts, etc will help you.

Moreover, my work schedule is quite demanding and I don't have much free time to do shadowing or other volunteer services. I am thinking of taking a break and work on something that interests me. However, I don't want to be seen as not being committed to research.

If your work is quite demanding, you could back off your work hours. Juggling several things at the same time is the MD/PhD way. If something else interests you more, you should do it though. Different adcoms are going to think different things about you not staying in research, I'm just saying it will definately help you more to stay in research vs. going and doing other things. That being said, I'm really unsure if it will hurt you to take a year off and do something else vs. say if you were to apply now. My gut reaction would be to say that 2 years of research experience is 2 years. But, I could imagine some people would question your commitment...

I know you're probably looking for a yes or no type of answer. "Yes it will hurt you" vs. "No, they won't mind at all", but it's hard to make such generalizations. Adcoms and interviewers are all going to put their own personal opinions into these sorts of things...

 

[KUNRD07]

Does it matter whether you are second author or third author when it comes to the impact of a publication on an admissions committee?

thanks!

 

[Neuronix]

Does it matter whether you are second author or third author when it comes to the impact of a publication on an admissions committee?

Second author more than third author, but in general it has some small amount of impact and should go on your application.

 

[RxnMan]

Does it matter whether you are second author or third author when it comes to the impact of a publication on an admissions committee?

thanks!

We've got a very similar discussion going on in the Allopathic forum, so check it out.