Leavin Internship

[Dryacku]

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I am considering leaving my internship because I may have a very good research job avaliable and because I have to take a year off anyways, I didnt match into my speciality which requires an intern year, I can do my intern year next year.

Do you know if there are any consquences as far as funding for your position and issues obtaing an internship next year? I am doing an osteopathic internship

Please let me know if you know anything?

Thanks

 

[Dryacku]

Anything? Any knowledge would be helpful

Thanks

 

[ChildNeuro]

If you leave your internship it will look bad to many because you signed a contract to do a year, and you will upset your supervisor who will then refuse to write you letters of rec. If you are trying to match into a competitive specialty, abandoning your internship to do research just to get that specialty will look bad. I would consider a less competitive specialty as well as your chances of "re-treads" or re-applicants matching again is lower than when they first applied. The first question a PD will have, regardless of specialty, is "Why did you leave your internship? What problems did you have?" NOT oh that is nice you could dinker around a lab instead of gain experience as a doctor in training.

 

[I am Hans]

I am considering leaving my internship because I may have a very good research job avaliable and because I have to take a year off anyways, I didnt match into my speciality which requires an intern year, I can do my intern year next year.

Do you know if there are any consquences as far as funding for your position and issues obtaing an internship next year? I am doing an osteopathic internship

Please let me know if you know anything?

Thanks

I am not familiar with the osteopathic match, but you should find out whether leaving your internship (ie, essentially breaking your match contract) violates the match. In the NRMP for example, breaking a contract violates the match and you are then ineligible to participate in the match process the following year.

Other issues of concern are those that Child Neuro addresses:it reflects poorly on you to leave a position, especially when it does not appear that you have a reason which would be acceptable to your program or others ("sorry I got a better offer, with less hours and more money, so I decided to tell you guys to screw off"). We won't get into issues of professionalism or breaking contracts because those are contentious here on SDN, but suffice it to say that it would not be suprising if, on the interview trail, your decision to quit a residency position (even if it is only for a year), was looked at unfavorably. How are they to know you aren't some scalliwag who will leave them high and dry when something else comes up for you.

Have you considered the possibility that you won't match into another Prelim position if you leave this one? There are no guarantees in life; just because you matched this year, doesn't mean that if you were to try again that you would (provided you were even allowed to enter the match).

HCFA/CMS funding is generally not a problem when doing Prelim; the "counter" starts when you enter categorical training, AFAIK. But there is the consideration that some boards are not allowing entry to those who train at multiple programs. Again, probably not an issue here, but if you end up having to do multiple Prelim years to get into a categorical spot, it might.

Finally, staying in training helps you beyond keeping your fingers in the clinical pie...what if a PGY-2 position in your chosen specialty were to become available this year (to start July 2008)? If you left your internship, you wouldn't be eligible. While perhaps not a common scenario, you are shutting the door on that possibility.

I wouldn't leave unless there was some nearly absolute guarantee that the research job would flood me with connections and a good chance at getting a categorical position, but that's just me.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I am not familiar with the osteopathic match, but you should find out whether leaving your internship (ie, essentially breaking your match contract) violates the match. In the NRMP for example, breaking a contract violates the match and you are then ineligible to participate in the match process the following year.

For the Allopathic/NRMP match, this is not true. The match only requires that you sign a contract and show up for your first day of work. If you leave after that, you are not actually a match violator. Many contracts require 2 months notice, so technically you violate your contract if you leave on Day 2, but that's an issue between you and your program and not the NRMP.

In the Osteopathic match, ther rules aren't so clear. According to the AOA's rules, if you violate your "contract" you can be barred from obtaining further AOA credit for 1 year. This is not a "match" issue, but rather an AOA issue. The ABIM does not get mixed up in match issues.

 

[I am Hans]

Thanks for the clarification APD...🙂

 

[ChildNeuro]

For the Allopathic/NRMP match, this is not true. The match only requires that you sign a contract and show up for your first day of work. If you leave after that, you are not actually a match violator. Many contracts require 2 months notice, so technically you violate your contract if you leave on Day 2, but that's an issue between you and your program and not the NRMP.

In the Osteopathic match, ther rules aren't so clear. According to the AOA's rules, if you violate your "contract" you can be barred from obtaining further AOA credit for 1 year. This is not a "match" issue, but rather an AOA issue. The ABIM does not get mixed up in match issues.

Leaving an internship is as worse as a match violation though in terms of getting another one. I would complete the prelim, and do very well, if you do that it is a feather in your hat, if you leave it is a black mark against you, which you will have to explain everywhere. Consider also doing a year of research after internship, you may have to do two things at once, apply again for match, AND apply for research after internship. Remember while not a rule, those who apply again to competitive residencies are less successful than first time applicants, you may want to consider plan B if you don't get a residency that is super competitive.

 

[Bevo]

Yeah, I concur with the other people in here.

Regardless of a match violation. I think leaving your current internship will leave a black mark on your application and make getting into any decent internship and or residency that much harder because they'll worry you'll leave. With residency being as competitive as it is these days some PDs will look for anyway to seperate applicants. You leaving an internship is enough of a reason for them to not rank you or not rank you highly.

I've had a PD tell me that he wrote people off just because their ties weren't properly tied and looking neat and tidy. He had no other ideas of how to seperate applicants.

So basically, I feel that leaving your internship will do more harm to you than doing a year of research will help you.

 

[philly4343]

Are you out of your MIND!!! you better stay your ass put!

These people talk amonst each other.. .you already didn't match once. The last thing you need is for your PD to spread some news around our screw you in some other way.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I think leaving your current internship will leave a black mark on your application and make getting into any decent internship and or residency that much harder because they'll worry you'll leave....PDs will look for anyway to seperate applicants. You leaving an internship is enough of a reason for them to not rank you or not rank you highly.

If I were a PD I'd never take anyone that would bail out on their colleagues for their perceived own best interest. There are too many hard working candidates to choose from who haven't sold out their other residents.

 

[Tired]

Leaving an internship is as worse as a match violation though in terms of getting another one. I would complete the prelim, and do very well, if you do that it is a feather in your hat, if you leave it is a black mark against you, which you will have to explain everywhere. Consider also doing a year of research after internship, you may have to do two things at once, apply again for match, AND apply for research after internship. Remember while not a rule, those who apply again to competitive residencies are less successful than first time applicants, you may want to consider plan B if you don't get a residency that is super competitive.

Last I checked you were an MSIV. Maybe you could tell us your experiences that lead you to believe you can present these views as fact.

 

[colbgw02]

Last I checked you were an MSIV. Maybe you could tell us your experiences that lead you to believe you can present these views as fact.

^^I was thinking this from the moment I saw the she had posted on this thread.

 

[GoodMonkey]

Leaving an internship is as worse as a match violation though in terms of getting another one. I would complete the prelim, and do very well, if you do that it is a feather in your hat, if you leave it is a black mark against you, which you will have to explain everywhere. Consider also doing a year of research after internship, you may have to do two things at once, apply again for match, AND apply for research after internship. Remember while not a rule, those who apply again to competitive residencies are less successful than first time applicants, you may want to consider plan B if you don't get a residency that is super competitive.

i'd wager the program director knows more about this than you do ....


edit: awww should have read the last 2 responses before posting. yeah. what they said. :sheepish:

 

[justwondering]

isnt there some issue with extending residencies? ie like medicare only pays for a certain number of years or something?

 

[Winged Scapula]

isnt there some issue with extending residencies? ie like medicare only pays for a certain number of years or something?

CMS funding is 100% for the number of years once you enter the categorical track for your residency. After that, it drops to 50% (ie, for fellowships or people doing a second residency).

 

[gasnewby]

but what about funding for research years and peeps who switch programs?

 

[labst]

Research years are funded from external sources, such as grant money. If you switch programs, then you get no additional funding. If you switch specialties, you get the same total funding (e.g., if you switch to Surgery from Psychiatry, you will get five total years of funding), I believe.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yep, when switching fields you don't change the number of years of CMS eligibility. Thus, its better to start out with a longer categorical track and switch into something shorter for purposes of CMS funding. It is not unheard of for people to try and do the opposite (ie, start out in a 3 year FM program and try to switch to a 5 year surgery program) and have some trouble.

Lab/research years are usually either grant funded or hospital funded. Once you have exceeded the total number of years of CMS eligibility, the hospital will get 50% for you and have to find other sources of income. Its generally not a problem for places which have active research labs with grant monies...your salary can be paid out of that and you'll still have funding left over from CMS (since it won't be used during lab years in most places).