Leaving Medicine for Business/Banking

[NotsureMD]

A question that has been asked before, given the search results I skimmed through.

My question, however, pertains more to HOW one would know whether this is a good move personality and career-wise, given the substantial risks involved.

I am currently 2 months into internship (yes, I know, I can already hear the alarm bells going off) and have been contemplating a switch in career. I originally went into medicine with idealism, and scoffed at the business/finance sector for being unethical, full of bureaucracy and paperwork, and mercenary. Truly, I never seriously considered doing anything other than medicine and through medical school I kept that focus.

Now, I am just disgusted and sick of what medicine is and terrified and where it is heading. I knew this to be the case after clinicals as a medical student, but I hear no optimism from any of my seniors or attendings. The future holds more paperwork, more scut, less pay, and less of the quality patient-doctor interaction that I thought would keep me motivated for years to come.

The future looks no better. Obamacare (and its descendants) are going to completely transform medicine, and I suspect that in five to ten years the system will be a complete radical departure for the worse from what we have now.

So the idea has started to niggle at me. Why continue? Why not sell on medicine before it plummets and I waste more time in the field doing things that no longer give me any satisfaction? I am thankfully and fortunately without significant debt. I still have the benefits of youth (energy, willingness to work long, long hours). And looking at my strengths, I have discovered that I am extremely good with people, selling and teaching ideas, and with math and logic. These are the things I really enjoy.

The risks are huge. I matched in one of the top programs in a competitive specialty, and once out the door will be slammed shut behind me. Without significant debt I have the luxury to be aggressive in a future medical practice and take calculated risks as a doctor to do well. But some part of me feels that if I am going to be doing business-like savvy activities anyway, why go through the charade of being an MD?

I apologize for the long-winded post. Either way I am going to finish the year and get my license. I am just wondering HOW to know whether it is a good idea to jump the sinking ship. I don't want to discover I cannot swim.

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[dragonfly99]

Personally, I think that you should keep yur head down and finish internship. As you said, if you leave now you will be slamming a lot of doors. Even if you don't have debt, you have invested a lot in what you are doing. Minimum of 8 years.

I would take with a grain of salt what people are saying about Obamacare, etc. People like to b*tch in general and if you were in finance they'd probably be whining about the new gov't regulations on banks and stock brokers, etc. If you don't enjoy taking care of patients, then wait a year or two and then bail if you feel the same. Just make sure you don't do anything hasty - that's my advice. Things do get better. Being a med student and intern is the WORST it's going to get.

 

[xanthines]

Unless you're planning on being a bank teller or working someone's customer service office, your people skills and teaching skills are going to be useless. Didn't you hear? There's this big recession going and Wall St is getting a pounding. Unless you get into a very top MBA school and make some mad connections (if don't already have some), you're definitely better off sticking with medicine.

Whatever you do, don't become a lawyer.

 

[NotsureMD]

Personally, I think that you should keep yur head down and finish internship. As you said, if you leave now you will be slamming a lot of doors. Even if you don't have debt, you have invested a lot in what you are doing. Minimum of 8 years.

I would take with a grain of salt what people are saying about Obamacare, etc. People like to b*tch in general and if you were in finance they'd probably be whining about the new gov't regulations on banks and stock brokers, etc. If you don't enjoy taking care of patients, then wait a year or two and then bail if you feel the same. Just make sure you don't do anything hasty - that's my advice. Things do get better. Being a med student and intern is the WORST it's going to get.

I appreciate the advice. No, I won't jump into anything too soon. I understand a lot of my own negativity probably has to do with my general fatigue/burnout then external factors.

I am starting to worry quite a lot about Obamacare, however, with the Medicare cuts coming. Plus, I look at all the people eligible for Medicare in the next few years and I see no way for this country to fund it. Doctors are going to be taking even bigger hits.

Unless you're planning on being a bank teller or working someone's customer service office, your people skills and teaching skills are going to be useless. Didn't you hear? There's this big recession going and Wall St is getting a pounding. Unless you get into a very top MBA school and make some mad connections (if don't already have some), you're definitely better off sticking with medicine.

Whatever you do, don't become a lawyer.

Yes, that is true. I have a few friends in finance who are either still at the bottom of the totem pole as analysts or just getting slaughtered as associates. Some are considering switching out into medicine! Still, if I made the switch I would aim for a top 5 MBA school (easier said than done) and network from there.

This probably won't amount to anything; I was just looking for advice regarding how one would get a sense whether finance/banking would be a good 'fit' personality wise.

 

[oreosandsake]

curious, what field are you in? how many more yrs do you have in training?

I would truly think long and hard about this.

your post sounds like an anonymous call for affirmation... someone going through a rough patch and looking for someone to tell you it is okay to back away from medicine. like someone else said, this year will likely be the worst one you will have to endure.

(although this isn't always the case - I have seen attendings working harder than residents with their ridiculously busy private practices...)

I think a lot of physicians are nervous about obamacare, and no one really knows what is going to happen except that things are on a downward trend for doc reimbursements. with that said, i think most people don't anticipate physicians not doing "pretty well"

first year banking associates all start at the same pay. I forget exactly what that number is, but definitely lower than what your community FM/internist gets paid. they also work 70+ hours per week, and are subject to the whims of their bosses and lots of luck. it's a tough ladder to climb that may be as grueling as residency...

you could probably do very well in business if you are savvy and lucky. I have a friend who was matched ortho, realized afterwards that he didn't want to subject himself to the training. subsequently got into HBS and now makes near what orthos make per year doing mergers/acquisitions for a top med equipment company. he also get's to play golf everyweekend and is never on call.

good luck with your decision

 

[bronx43]

I've thought long and hard about the same thing, and the conclusion I came to was that even if you don't like medicine, there are business opportunities you can take advantage of later on in your career, if you're really interested and have the business chops.

Going into banking right now is an absolutely terrible idea. If you're afraid of Obamacare, then you obviously haven't taken a gander at what financial reform has done to the finance industry. Internal hedge fund groups are getting the shaft, and the market itself isn't looking so hot for all kinds of funds. M&A and other advisory groups in bulge bracket banks probably aren't going to be hit as hard, but do you honestly want to be writing up pitch books and run valuations for a decade, then spend the rest of your career sucking up to buyside? In all its "glamour" and "glitz," banking really has little to offer - a monkey can more or less do the job of an analyst or associate. And this is coming from the mouths of bankers themselves.

There are other business industries out there like management consulting that you can possibly get into, but I highly doubt you'll end up liking consulting as a career - very few do. Even if you end up landing a job at McKinsey, Bain, or BCG, you'll probably leave in a few years and pursue something else. As for private equity firms, venture capital firms, hedge funds, it's going to be close to impossible to get a job with a respectable shop, even with a top notch MBA. There are enough overqualified people in MBA already - there's no reason for any of those firms to hire someone without a robust finance background.

If you're truly truly interested in business, I still think you should go for it, but keep in mind that there are absolutely no guarantees that you'll make more money outside of medicine, nor will you enjoy the relative job security medicine provides. Even if Obamacare is fully implemented, how much is it worth to know that barring some major disaster, you'll have a job tomorrow? For me, quite a bit. If you're cavalier, then I guess it wouldn't matter as much.

 

[NotsureMD]

curious, what field are you in? how many more yrs do you have in training?

In a RROAD specialty.

I would truly think long and hard about this.

your post sounds like an anonymous call for affirmation... someone going through a rough patch and looking for someone to tell you it is okay to back away from medicine. like someone else said, this year will likely be the worst one you will have to endure.

(although this isn't always the case - I have seen attendings working harder than residents with their ridiculously busy private practices...)

This is what worries me. What if this year is not the bottom of the barrel?

I think a lot of physicians are nervous about obamacare, and no one really knows what is going to happen except that things are on a downward trend for doc reimbursements. with that said, i think most people don't anticipate physicians not doing "pretty well"

Most people still think physicians make bank when that no longer is or will be the case.

first year banking associates all start at the same pay. I forget exactly what that number is, but definitely lower than what your community FM/internist gets paid. they also work 70+ hours per week, and are subject to the whims of their bosses and lots of luck. it's a tough ladder to climb that may be as grueling as residency...

Yes it seems that way. Like residency without a guarantee at the end of accomplishment.

you could probably do very well in business if you are savvy and lucky. I have a friend who was matched ortho, realized afterwards that he didn't want to subject himself to the training. subsequently got into HBS and now makes near what orthos make per year doing mergers/acquisitions for a top med equipment company. he also get's to play golf everyweekend and is never on call.

good luck with your decision

Thanks for your help! Your friend (anecdotal for sure) is a good example of someone who took a risk and had it pay off.

[/quote]

I've thought long and hard about the same thing, and the conclusion I came to was that even if you don't like medicine, there are business opportunities you can take advantage of later on in your career, if you're really interested and have the business chops.

Going into banking right now is an absolutely terrible idea. If you're afraid of Obamacare, then you obviously haven't taken a gander at what financial reform has done to the finance industry. Internal hedge fund groups are getting the shaft, and the market itself isn't looking so hot for all kinds of funds. M&A and other advisory groups in bulge bracket banks probably aren't going to be hit as hard, but do you honestly want to be writing up pitch books and run valuations for a decade, then spend the rest of your career sucking up to buyside? In all its "glamour" and "glitz," banking really has little to offer - a monkey can more or less do the job of an analyst or associate. And this is coming from the mouths of bankers themselves.

What I have realized is that a monkey or a well-trained computer could do exactly what physicians do on a day-to-day basis. What we do is not really very complicated at all. We do simple things according to protocol and we chart.

There are other business industries out there like management consulting that you can possibly get into, but I highly doubt you'll end up liking consulting as a career - very few do. Even if you end up landing a job at McKinsey, Bain, or BCG, you'll probably leave in a few years and pursue something else. As for private equity firms, venture capital firms, hedge funds, it's going to be close to impossible to get a job with a respectable shop, even with a top notch MBA. There are enough overqualified people in MBA already - there's no reason for any of those firms to hire someone without a robust finance background.

If you're truly truly interested in business, I still think you should go for it, but keep in mind that there are absolutely no guarantees that you'll make more money outside of medicine, nor will you enjoy the relative job security medicine provides. Even if Obamacare is fully implemented, how much is it worth to know that barring some major disaster, you'll have a job tomorrow? For me, quite a bit. If you're cavalier, then I guess it wouldn't matter as much.

I appreciate it. However, job security alone in a field that does not give me much satisfaction is not adequate for me. If that is cavalier of me, then so be it.

 

[bronx43]

In a RROAD specialty.



This is what worries me. What if this year is not the bottom of the barrel?



Most people still think physicians make bank when that no longer is or will be the case.



Yes it seems that way. Like residency without a guarantee at the end of accomplishment.



Thanks for your help! Your friend (anecdotal for sure) is a good example of someone who took a risk and had it pay off.

What I have realized is that a monkey or a well-trained computer could do exactly what physicians do on a day-to-day basis. What we do is not really very complicated at all. We do simple things according to protocol and we chart.



I appreciate it. However, job security alone in a field that does not give me much satisfaction is not adequate for me. If that is cavalier of me, then so be it.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any previous exposure to finance or consulting? If you haven't, then I suggest talking to ex-bankers and ex-consultants about it. There are very very few instances where you get paid a lot AND you love your job. Goin by how you describe your loss of interest for medicine, I can't see you enjoying something that's even dryer and less interesting like banking. But, if you really think you'll enjoy it, then I think you should go for it.
Often, I see people who are disillusioned about medicine want to make a jump without having a mature understanding of other industries - especially business. I can straight up tell you that I don't know a single banker that didn't hate it, and I can't name more than a small handful of consultants that stayed in consulting.

 

[michaelrack]

I

I am starting to worry quite a lot about Obamacare, however, with the Medicare cuts coming. Plus, I look at all the people eligible for Medicare in the next few years and I see no way for this country to fund it. Doctors are going to be taking even bigger hits.


.

It's even worse than that. Obamacare is going to expand Medicaid by approx 30 million people.

 

[Taurus]

I agree with bronx43. The grass is not always greener on the other side. There are several of us on this board who made the switch from the other side into medicine so we have some idea of what we speak of. Every field has its pros and cons. I believe that the pros outweigh the cons in medicine relative to other fields. If you were a premed, I would try to persuade you to go into dentistry instead of medicine, but since you're already so far along it doesn't make sense to switch now. Just finish your residency and structure your practice the way you want it.

Look on the bright side. You're in a ROAD specialty. It could be worse. Much worse. You could be doing FP or IM.

 

[KeratinPearls]

I agree with bronx43. The grass is not always greener on the other side. There are several of us on this board who made the switch from the other side into medicine so we have some idea of what we speak of. Every field has its pros and cons. I believe that the pros outweigh the cons in medicine relative to other fields. If you were a premed, I would try to persuade you to go into dentistry instead of medicine, but since you're already so far along it doesn't make sense to switch now. Just finish your residency and structure your practice the way you want it.

Look on the bright side. You're in a ROAD specialty. It could be worse. Much worse. You could be doing FP or IM.

Why dentistry? I am a 3rd year resident and if I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would choose dentistry as well. Why? For me, it's the hours, fairly good pay only after four years of schooling (gen dentistry seems to start at 80K-100K). Also, if you want to specialize some subspecialties make more money 200K on up. Also, if you want to start up your own practice, then you can make 200K on up. I know orthos make really good money for very little work.

On the other hand are some dentists hurting for patients? I mean I havent seen a dentist in years and I'm fine.

Just was wondering why you thought dentistry?

 

[NotsureMD]

It's even worse than that. Obamacare is going to expand Medicaid by approx 30 million people.

Yes, an idea which 8 years ago I would have wholeheartedly supported. Now? The plan is preposterous.

Do you have any previous exposure to finance or consulting? If you haven't, then I suggest talking to ex-bankers and ex-consultants about it. There are very very few instances where you get paid a lot AND you love your job. Goin by how you describe your loss of interest for medicine, I can't see you enjoying something that's even dryer and less interesting like banking. But, if you really think you'll enjoy it, then I think you should go for it.
Often, I see people who are disillusioned about medicine want to make a jump without having a mature understanding of other industries - especially business. I can straight up tell you that I don't know a single banker that didn't hate it, and I can't name more than a small handful of consultants that stayed in consulting.

That's true. Nothing comes easy in life. Consulting is a crappy lifestyle I know secondhand from family members. And my friends in finance don't like it much more than I like medicine. But at least they have some upward mobility and optimism for the future. I just don't see how medicine will be viable in 10 years.

I agree with bronx43. The grass is not always greener on the other side. There are several of us on this board who made the switch from the other side into medicine so we have some idea of what we speak of. Every field has its pros and cons. I believe that the pros outweigh the cons in medicine relative to other fields. If you were a premed, I would try to persuade you to go into dentistry instead of medicine, but since you're already so far along it doesn't make sense to switch now. Just finish your residency and structure your practice the way you want it.

Look on the bright side. You're in a ROAD specialty. It could be worse. Much worse. You could be doing FP or IM.

It could be. Maybe I will be that much happier once I am done with this crappy prelim year and doing what I chose for a specialty, although lack of sleep and stress can make you question even that.

 

[Taurus]

Why dentistry? I am a 3rd year resident and if I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would choose dentistry as well. Why? For me, it's the hours, fairly good pay only after four years of schooling (gen dentistry seems to start at 80K-100K). Also, if you want to specialize some subspecialties make more money 200K on up. Also, if you want to start up your own practice, then you can make 200K on up. I know orthos make really good money for very little work.

On the other hand are some dentists hurting for patients? I mean I havent seen a dentist in years and I'm fine.

Just was wondering why you thought dentistry?

I could go on for a while why I would pick dentistry over medicine. I have in other threads.

Before making an investment in higher education, I think people need to really take a hard and honest look at themselves. Figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are, what their likes and dislikes are, etc. Then decide if post-college education is right for them and if so which route to take. For me, having worked prior to going back to medical school, I ruled out law school and business school quickly because the problem with those fields is that you have to have the right skillset to really pull it off to justify the investment. Very few people have what it takes. Most JD's and MBA's struggle and barely make it financially to justify the $100k in loans they took out. Medical school is a good option because if you survive the medical school and residency process you more or less can expect a certain amount of income and job stability. For me, I learned too late into third year medical school that I hated the hours, especially call. The material is not that hard and can be boring but tolerable. Pt care is ok. But it's the hours that I can't simply stand. Thankfully I matched into a specialty that fits me and my personality quite well. After residency, I probably will do 9-5 with little or no call. In retrospect, I would have gone to dental school. Why? 1) it's 9-5 type hours, no nights, no weekends. 2) mostly cash-based and very little insurance. When Obamacare becomes reality, you'll work harder for less pay. Besides, who wants to be told by the govt how much their work is worth? I prefer letting the market dictate how much I can charge. 3) working with your hands. Even though I thought I would do surgery when I first went to medical school, I soon realized that my back could barely survive surgery clerkship, so 5 years of grueling surgery residency was out of the question. Furthermore, I think that most surgeons eventually develop back problems because it's just not natural to be standing or walking for 10 hours a day. In dentistry, you can work with your hands which is what I like but you get to sit down when you do so. 4) you can start practicing after dental school instead of having to do another 3-7 years of residency and fellowship. This last point is very important. We had an categorical medicine intern get fired 2 weeks ago from my program. How much does that suck to spend 4 years in school and 200k in loans and then have your entire medical career end just like that? Often times if you get fired from residency it's due to politics and not performance-related. In dentistry, you just need to survive 4 years of dental school not the 7+ years it takes to become a physician. 5) there's less book material to learn. I like learning about new things but medicine is bit much for me. I like to do other things besides reading about medicine in the 1 hour I have free every day. In dentistry, you don't have to do as much work to keep current. 6) the income in dentistry is quite good. On average, dentists make more than a primary care physician. That's >150k. If you do a residency in orthodontics or endodontics you can make >300k working 3 days a week without nights or weekends. How sweet is that? You have a much better chance of matching into orthodontics or endodontics than derm. As a disclaimer, I should mention that my fiance is a dentist so I have inside knowledge of the other side. After comparing the two, I wish that I would considered dentistry more. However, this decision is highly dependent on the individual and their skills and personality.

 

[KeratinPearls]

I could go on for a while why I would pick dentistry over medicine. I have in other threads.

Great post Taurus. I totally agree. When I was young and naive I didnt think I wanted to put my hands in someones mouth my whole life. Now that I think of it, it's just a job. Those well paying subspec pay very well...if I had gone to dentistry I woulda finished when I was 25...now many many years later Im still in residency.

I actually enjoy what I am doing. Sometimes it can be stressful jsut liek any job, but basically I work 40-50 hours a week, so I can't complain about that. If I had to do it all over again, I would become a dentist. I wouldnt have to deal with all the USMLE exams and all the studying....

Peace.

 

[xanthines]

As opposed to someone's rectum or vag? Ah, the folly of youth...

-X

Great post Taurus. I totally agree. When I was young and naive I didnt think I wanted to put my hands in someones mouth my whole life.

 

[NotsureMD]

As opposed to someone's rectum or vag? Ah, the folly of youth...

-X

Too true

 

[avatarftw]

40-50 hours a week?! What residency is this?

Great post Taurus. I totally agree. When I was young and naive I didnt think I wanted to put my hands in someones mouth my whole life. Now that I think of it, it's just a job. Those well paying subspec pay very well...if I had gone to dentistry I woulda finished when I was 25...now many many years later Im still in residency.

I actually enjoy what I am doing. Sometimes it can be stressful jsut liek any job, but basically I work 40-50 hours a week, so I can't complain about that. If I had to do it all over again, I would become a dentist. I wouldnt have to deal with all the USMLE exams and all the studying....

Peace.

 

[Taurus]

40-50 hours a week?! What residency is this?

The ROAD specialties, path, nuc med, etc.

I also work 40-50 hours per week. I come in at 8 am and leave by 5 pm. It's a late day if I leave at 5:05 pm. But I go home and study a lot. I kinda feel like I'm a first year med student again. So I can't complain too much. But I'm still only half-way through training. Even though I'm in a pretty good field and program, I would have done dentistry instead. If I had, I probably would be in my 4th year of practice already.

 

[penguin24]

Dentistry sure has a lot less drama than medicine, but right now I don't mind. Can't wait to start Rads residency next year. At this point Dentistry is sort of a back-up for people who don't feel they can get into Medicine, but only by a small margin. Who knows if politics/the economy will lower the allure of Medicine so that the best college students will pursue Dentistry and apply to Medicine 'as a back-up plan'. That would be very interesting!

 

[notinkansas]

Is your ROAD specialty one where intern year is prelim before you start training in your field? If so, I'd consider at least doing a year of training in your specialty before you bail. You can always bail later, but it's harder to go back in. Plus I think if you want to purse consulting, a few more years clinical experience would be helpful. I'm being recruited by firm to be a consultant, and knowledge of workflow and issues of several of the ROAD specialties would be very attractive to this firm, at least. I don't think only having intern experience would be enough. No MBA necessary.

 

[slowlybutshelly]

I am a 40 something yr old woman and petrified of a life in medicine inside the USA. I spent 3+ years in African refugee camps and must say " i could lead that life again simply and easily". carefree, no children, giving immunizations. I have tons of M.P.H friends who are raising children abroad with the CDC doing just that well into middle age.

I am coping with OBAMACARE by thinking of staying in the USA; incorporating myself, studying acupuncture,a dn doing the minimum necessary to keep myself credentialed while I sort myself and my feelings out.

It is not necessary to make radical changes. I am trying to educate myself in every subject I can that I never studied (history, finances, acupuncture) so that I have a sense of personal wellness in adapting to the changes that will happen in my life.

 

[abcabc1]

Now, I am just disgusted and sick of what medicine is and terrified and where it is heading. I knew this to be the case after clinicals as a medical student, but I hear no optimism from any of my seniors or attendings. The future holds more paperwork, more scut, less pay, and less of the quality patient-doctor interaction that I thought would keep me motivated for years to come.

The future looks no better. Obamacare (and its descendants) are going to completely transform medicine, and I suspect that in five to ten years the system will be a complete radical departure for the worse from what we have now.

So the idea has started to niggle at me. Why continue? Why not sell on medicine before it plummets and I waste more time in the field doing things that no longer give me any satisfaction? I am thankfully and fortunately without significant debt. I still have the benefits of youth (energy, willingness to work long, long hours). And looking at my strengths, I have discovered that I am extremely good with people, selling and teaching ideas, and with math and logic. These are the things I really enjoy.

The risks are huge. I matched in one of the top programs in a competitive specialty, and once out the door will be slammed shut behind me. Without significant debt I have the luxury to be aggressive in a future medical practice and take calculated risks as a doctor to do well. But some part of me feels that if I am going to be doing business-like savvy activities anyway, why go through the charade of being an MD?

I apologize for the long-winded post. Either way I am going to finish the year and get my license. I am just wondering HOW to know whether it is a good idea to jump the sinking ship. I don't want to discover I cannot swim.

You have to realize that the reason students who graduate with MBAs from Harvard, Stanford, Wharton etc. get the best jobs AFTER graduation from the MBA program is that they had the best jobs, resumes and contacts BEFORE entering the MBA program.

What work experience, education and skills do you have that value in the Business/Finance/Consulting world? If you were a typical premed/Medical student, then the answer is most likely 'none.' This will make it tough for you to get into a top MBA program.

OTOH...if you are 100% certain you do NOT want to practice as a Physician (community or Academic), then completing a Residency is not a wise use of your time and is a 'charade' as you say. I'm not saying drop out of the Residency program, but will say that moving forward with Residency if you know you do not want to practice doesn't make sense (especially if you can repay your modest debt without having to practice).

Given your low debt burden, you are not forced to stay in Medicine regardless of how much you may hate it.

Just ask yourself if you want to be a Doctor and if the answer is no, you should start looking into what else is available. Until there is a solid plan, leaving your Residency program is of little benefit. That said, completing your Residency has little (if any) value in the Finance/Business/Consulting world.

 

[touchadream]

A question that has been asked before, given the search results I skimmed through.

My question, however, pertains more to HOW one would know whether this is a good move personality and career-wise, given the substantial risks involved.

I am currently 2 months into internship (yes, I know, I can already hear the alarm bells going off) and have been contemplating a switch in career. I originally went into medicine with idealism, and scoffed at the business/finance sector for being unethical, full of bureaucracy and paperwork, and mercenary. Truly, I never seriously considered doing anything other than medicine and through medical school I kept that focus.

Now, I am just disgusted and sick of what medicine is and terrified and where it is heading. I knew this to be the case after clinicals as a medical student, but I hear no optimism from any of my seniors or attendings. The future holds more paperwork, more scut, less pay, and less of the quality patient-doctor interaction that I thought would keep me motivated for years to come.

The future looks no better. Obamacare (and its descendants) are going to completely transform medicine, and I suspect that in five to ten years the system will be a complete radical departure for the worse from what we have now.

So the idea has started to niggle at me. Why continue? Why not sell on medicine before it plummets and I waste more time in the field doing things that no longer give me any satisfaction? I am thankfully and fortunately without significant debt. I still have the benefits of youth (energy, willingness to work long, long hours). And looking at my strengths, I have discovered that I am extremely good with people, selling and teaching ideas, and with math and logic. These are the things I really enjoy.

The risks are huge. I matched in one of the top programs in a competitive specialty, and once out the door will be slammed shut behind me. Without significant debt I have the luxury to be aggressive in a future medical practice and take calculated risks as a doctor to do well. But some part of me feels that if I am going to be doing business-like savvy activities anyway, why go through the charade of being an MD?

I apologize for the long-winded post. Either way I am going to finish the year and get my license. I am just wondering HOW to know whether it is a good idea to jump the sinking ship. I don't want to discover I cannot swim.

How would you know? How do you discover things you don't know now? you study, you find an expert, your research. Do that. There are some really good testing services you could try. I would research them carefully. Kolbe.com is one I have used-they have some resources for determining what type of job will make you happy, so that is a good place to start. Some times that is very different from what you may be good at. You will never regret what you have accomplished so far, for even the shadow of lost knowledge keeps you from having any illusions. Take a look at Candidcareer.com, where real people discuss their jobs, there are a lot of bank/finance pieces, and many universities have the full subscription so check on yours, and if they don't ask them to get it. Finance/banking is so broad, with so many areas and fields and jobs that it may take a while to find a fit, but there are LOTS of alternative jobs for MDs. There is a guy on this post who knows a lot about alternatives. I don't think an MBA necessarily is what you need, if you are entreprenuerial by nature, but interview and make your own decision. One thing I have always told my kids when they were thinking about work is "Picture your perfect day," Are you outside, are you inside, are you socializing, talking, teaching, creating order out of chaos, learning, teaching, what is a perfect mix for you. Imgaine a day you really can't wait to start and that doesn't feel like work. Kolbe sort of takes you in this direction, to keep you wanting to go to work it has to be something that you really look forward to every day. I recall my husband at his happiest, as a fellow, the days he came home late with blood on his shoes, animated about what they had done that day. He is a neuroradiologist and many many years later is still learning new things and has new interests in his field. You need to be very happy in your work, so go to resources, and don't underestimate the people who may help you. They LOVE helping you find your spot--that's who you are looking for. It will be worth it, either putting to bed your ideas of grass is greener, or show you the meadow that will really make you want to leap out of bed in the morning. There are enough jobs for the very talented, but its not easy to find the one for you. The more talents you have the harder it is to choose, lucky problem to have, but not all that comfortable. Given that you are going to finish this year (smart move) you have time. And yes, they will take you back, even though it won't seem so now. Not the end of the world. Best of luck. This isn't about the others on the forum--its about you. Is not about what you should do. Its all about what floats your boat. That is the definition of success: finding your highest and best use. And, FYI the jobs that today's graduates will get may not exisit when they start college, so change is inevitable for most over time, anyway.

 

[hibore222]

(a late reply...)

As a 25-year old with a few years experience working as a consultant for one of the big consulting firms, here is what bugs me about those thinking about getting into "business" (especially many undergrads). The overwhelming majority of these people end up becoming workers for large corporations and have very little to do with how successful the corporation. They do this because of the stable pay of large corporations. But when employed by these large corporations, you are almost always a "worker", not a "businessman". As someone interested in the practice of business, I am far more interested the guy that owns the sub shop down the street, as compared to the consultants at BCG, McKinsey, etc. I owned a very small business in college, and I got far more excitement when I made a big sale in that business versus any excitement I've ever gotten while working for a large corporation. But, I wanted a stable income, so I took the corporate job. I guess my reason for posting is this: if you want excitement, you probably won't find that working for a large corporation.

 

[Stroganoff]

Funny timing, but I am currently working in the corporate world and find constant excitement. Banking specifically, and we are going through extremely aggressive acquisitions. I'm on the IT side, and the ratio of our small department relative to the size of the corporation means plenty of opportunity and work for everyone. I suppose the excitement is it's a brand new department and we get to establish infrastructure from the ground up and decide whatever the heck we want to implement as far as infrastructure and business processes, in support of the larger mission of company growth, stability, and of course client satisfaction and retention.

The culture of my current bank employer as compared to my very recent other bank employer is quite intimate, and senior bankers and executives seem very outgoing and open with communication and are open to our feedback and ideas.

My current financial picture is one with $100K+ debt, and none of the debt from professional school (all undergrad). The thought of acquiring $200K-$400K more debt principal, which will double according to the rule of 72 (approximately) while postponing my life dreams of becoming a husband and father make clinical medicine and academic medicine boring to me. Through reading posts on SDN as well as interacting with those in the field, it seems a large chunk of medicine is following rote protocol and automation...only to deal with non-compliant patients. My brain needs problem solving to keep it interested. I want to improve, grow, achieve. I do know there are niches in medicine for problem solving and research, but with tuition out of control (increasing) and reimbursements and the ****ing government mandating certain reimbursements (decreasing) or telling physicians how to practice, I feel like it would restrict the level of control I would have if I were to go into private practice or any practice. When it comes to self-employment, I want complete control, complete power, and complete responsibility for my actions and risk-taking.

OP, I presume you finished PGY-1. What have you decided?

I personally do truly believe in my heart of hearts that I can match or exceed the take-home pay of most attendings, but I truly want to be a husband and father as well as take on like 3 other careers before I retire. If I were to invest in medicine, I wouldn't be able to do my other career dreams until 50's or 60's if ever.

if you want excitement, you probably won't find that working for a large corporation.

Agree and disagree. I suppose many "large" corporations (where large = thousands of employees or large = many billions of $$$ in capitalization) are very set in their ways, and you are just a cog in the machine, a worker bee. I can see what you meant about that. You're not allowed to deviate from protocol. You're not allowed to change the system from the inside. You must (shall!) conform. (Incidentally, that may apply to politics as well: those who genuinely want to change the system/fight corruption learn about the uphill battle once they are on the inside of the machine.)

But, I am personally and anecdotally telling you that there are some gems out there as far as employers, excitement, and intellectual challenge and reward for taking risks and sharing your ideas and creativity.

I currently get to work in IT balls deep in banking (which satisfies my personal finance hobbies and interests), which may provide me better resources and networking opportunities to finance and launch my start-up companies, offering even more excitement, risk, and reward.


tl;dr summary: It all depends on several key things: company culture, opportunity, and challenge/stimulation.

 

[NotsureMD]

Funny timing, but I am currently working in the corporate world and find constant excitement. Banking specifically, and we are going through extremely aggressive acquisitions. I'm on the IT side, and the ratio of our small department relative to the size of the corporation means plenty of opportunity and work for everyone. I suppose the excitement is it's a brand new department and we get to establish infrastructure from the ground up and decide whatever the heck we want to implement as far as infrastructure and business processes, in support of the larger mission of company growth, stability, and of course client satisfaction and retention.

The culture of my current bank employer as compared to my very recent other bank employer is quite intimate, and senior bankers and executives seem very outgoing and open with communication and are open to our feedback and ideas.

My current financial picture is one with $100K+ debt, and none of the debt from professional school (all undergrad). The thought of acquiring $200K-$400K more debt principal, which will double according to the rule of 72 (approximately) while postponing my life dreams of becoming a husband and father make clinical medicine and academic medicine boring to me. Through reading posts on SDN as well as interacting with those in the field, it seems a large chunk of medicine is following rote protocol and automation...only to deal with non-compliant patients. My brain needs problem solving to keep it interested. I want to improve, grow, achieve. I do know there are niches in medicine for problem solving and research, but with tuition out of control (increasing) and reimbursements and the ****ing government mandating certain reimbursements (decreasing) or telling physicians how to practice, I feel like it would restrict the level of control I would have if I were to go into private practice or any practice. When it comes to self-employment, I want complete control, complete power, and complete responsibility for my actions and risk-taking.

OP, I presume you finished PGY-1. What have you decided?

I personally do truly believe in my heart of hearts that I can match or exceed the take-home pay of most attendings, but I truly want to be a husband and father as well as take on like 3 other careers before I retire. If I were to invest in medicine, I wouldn't be able to do my other career dreams until 50's or 60's if ever.



Agree and disagree. I suppose many "large" corporations (where large = thousands of employees or large = many billions of $$$ in capitalization) are very set in their ways, and you are just a cog in the machine, a worker bee. I can see what you meant about that. You're not allowed to deviate from protocol. You're not allowed to change the system from the inside. You must (shall!) conform. (Incidentally, that may apply to politics as well: those who genuinely want to change the system/fight corruption learn about the uphill battle once they are on the inside of the machine.)

But, I am personally and anecdotally telling you that there are some gems out there as far as employers, excitement, and intellectual challenge and reward for taking risks and sharing your ideas and creativity.

I currently get to work in IT balls deep in banking (which satisfies my personal finance hobbies and interests), which may provide me better resources and networking opportunities to finance and launch my start-up companies, offering even more excitement, risk, and reward.


tl;dr summary: It all depends on several key things: company culture, opportunity, and challenge/stimulation.

I stuck with it and have no regrets. I wouldn't really be happy in business.

Intern year was a ****fest. Working more hours this year and much happier.

 

[ccmonopolies]

I stuck with it and have no regrets. I wouldn't really be happy in business.

Intern year was a ****fest. Working more hours this year and much happier.

The way to make real money in business is to start your own company. Some two 24-26 year olds started a gaming company called Riot Games in 2006, a majority of the company was bought for $400 million in 2011.

Founders probably cashed out at least 10% each (at least $40 million each). Since they were venture funded, the two founders probably didn't have too much more than 40% of the company left at the time of the sale.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379503,00.asp


If you give people what they want, you have a business.

Of course, this case is an outlier, but there are many more success stories like this than you would think.

 

[AxeJ]

Medicine is a guarantee to six figures. Banking isn't. Period.

 

[flyhi]

I stuck with it and have no regrets..

sweet

 

[AxeJ]

I stuck with it and have no regrets.

Ya, good job, dave man.