LECOM-B vs. NSU-COM

[enlightened]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hi everyone,
I looked all over for a thread like this and couldn't find one, but I'm a little inexperienced with SDN, so if there is already one, can someone find the thread?
I've been accepted to NSU-COM and LECOM-Bradenton, yay! Now the hard part, making a decision! I have some questions, more specifically about clinical rotations and residency opportunities/placements. Does anyone know how many students from each school go into MD residencies after their 4th year? Also, is LECOM-Bradenton flexible on who they let you do rotations with? I'm asking because I grew up in the area and am familiar with several physicians that would be open for me to do rotations with them, if LECOM would allow it.
I really like both schools a lot and I hate turning either down, but that obviously has to happen. I really like PBL and that is what made me choose LECOM in the first place, but now that i've been accepted to NOVA (where they seem to have very good residency placements), I'm torn! If there are any current students at either of the schools that had this difficult choice, can you tell me how you chose your school?

Any information on opinions about either of the schools would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[aterry]

Hello-

I was also accepted to both and it was an interesting decision for me. I am going to NSU next year so you can take my info with a grain of NSU salt. Here is some helpful information for you....
1. From what I understand, there is some PBL used within the curriculum at NSU. I don't know how much or how it is structured but I believe it is there if you like it.
2. Really ask yourself about location...I was not impressed with the campus or the city of Tampa/Bradenton/Sarasota as far as a bigger area. That being said I have a SO I am bringing with me who has to find a job, so if you don't have that issue then it may be fine.
3. Here is a link to the post-graduate residency info at NSU: http://medicine.nova.edu/academics/clinical/index.html
4. If an MPH is something you would be interested in, look harder at NSU. If not, then nm.
5. One question I had to ask myself was, "Do I thrive on inter-student interaction to help me in school?" These two schools offer very different learning environments.

Good luck and let me know if you need anything. I know some students who go to both if you need to talk to them.

Ashley

 

[nlax30]

Congrats on the acceptances! The important thing is that you'll be going to school in Florida!! 😀

There are some big differences, and it really just comes down to your preferences...... PBL vs. Traditional curriculum, Bradenton/Sarasota vs. Fort Lauderdale, Small school (only med and pharm here) vs. Larger institution.

Regarding residency, in my opinion where you go depends just about entirely on YOU. There are a lot of factors involved in getting a residency spot; rec letters, board scores, grades, work ethic, etc... and no where have I seen listed or mentioned the impact of the school itself. The only factors that I could see someone looking at would be how the school does board review, and maybe if you were seriously interested in a residency spot that was affiliated with a specific school then maybe going to that school would make it easier for you to do a few rotations there.

Rotations: Setting up rotations here at LECOM-B can be very flexible. We are put into small groups and each group is assigned a rotation schedule. You are given a list of hospitals/physicians that are already "affliated" with the school and in your group you work out who wants to go where during each month. The con is that you won't get a whole lot of direction or hand holding through the process and that was pretty stressful in the beginning.... but where you do rotations is VERY flexible. With a few limitations you can pretty much set them up where ever and with whomever you'd like. I know a few who are going back home for rotations and ended up setting up most of their spots with individual docs from back home. It requires a little leg work on your end to get the required paper work in on time, but it is an option.

I'll see if I can find the link but do a search on here and you can find a match list (not fully complete) for our first graduating class, which was pretty good. We've also had extremely high board scores and passing rates for the past 2 years..... something like #2 in the country.

 

[linkDO]

I was also accepted at both and had a tough time looking at each. The PBL track at LECOM-B is a LOT of work, but it WILL be worth it. The second years I talked with there seemed so far ahead of the learning curve than some other schools I've been to. Probably cause most that I talked to said they are reading books 8-12 hours a day with only small breaks.

In the end, I've chosen NSU for many reasons. A couple are listed
-The larger university and its associated amenities/services at NSU. I like to be able to study at various locations/libraries or go work out at the gym throughout the day. You cant really do this at LECOM-B. It's difficult for me to spend 6 or 8 hours studying at a place like LECOM-B's library (small, no food/drink, and dress code enforced)
-The people and campus were very welcoming. At LECOM-B, they were still very friendly and great people...but seemed much less social and interactive with one another. I like inter-student interaction.
-Very few local health care and hospital affiliations for LECOM-B since its so new. Whereas NSU has lots and is well known in the area. The students at LECOM-B said the match system was really screwed up this year but they think it'll be fine by next year...?
-Better chances for my SO with school/jobs in Ft Lauderdale area than Bradenton/Sarasota.
-Interested in the MPH program and its FREE at NSU!
-NSU seems to do a good job of having all the lectures recorded to go over at your convenience.

There's always more and I can post them later if this continues. But in conclusion, I really liked LECOM-B but ended up with NSU. I think both are great academic institutions. But with my undergrad background and learning styles I felt more comfortable with NSU.

 

[MossPoh]

I'm waiting for some LECOM-B people to come in here. I was accepted to both and chose nova. Largely because of the large university atmosphere and my brother/support network being right next to me. I also have friends in other fields (medical and non-medical) at nova. It was a tough decision for me. I liked LECOM-B and had a great interaction with the PBL group. The group I observed DIDN'T seem ahead of other schools. I'd say on par...I actually knew a lot of the stuff they were talking about and the answer to several of the facilitators questions, which honestly surprised me.

If you are a highly self-motivated studier that can isolate what material is critical to your learning and muscle through what you don't like on your own then PBL is great. I didn't have that much faith in myself. 😉 I participated in PBL for most of my major classes while in undergrad, so I know what I am and am not capable of. While I was at Bradenton, the staff and students did nearly everything in their power to help and leave a favorable impression. In the end, I just saw myself walking into the buildings at nova and seeing my brother and nephew once in a while.

Residency placement is what you make it. My dad was a radiologists (still is but parttime) and two of his partners were from Nova. He held them in higher regard than the guy that went to University of Chicago and the guy that went to DMU. That was largely a product of their residency programs, but it just shows you that every school gives you the chance to succeed.

 

[scpod]

I say go wherever you feel most comfortable....but here are some of my thoughts about my decision to go Bradenton over Nova:

After Anatomy is over you only have to be at school about 2 hours a day M, W, Th, and F. Nova has required lectures.

Lots of freedom for rotations. You can set up your own cores if you are willing to do it, otherwise they have to be at an affiliate hospital. The existing affiliate list is really HUGR, though. At Bradenton you have many true electives that can be done anywhere, with anyone. I was told by Nova students that they were limited in the number of electives they could do in one field. Some had to lie to make it work out in their favor. Nova requires three months of rural medicine in the fourth year. Lecom-B requires one.

You begin exams in mid April of your 2nd year at Bradenton and they have a couple of weeks of formal board review starting in late April. You have another week of optional board review after that if you want it (if you have less than aa 75 average it's required). Then you are off until June 1st when rotations start. You can schedule step one at anytime-- there are no restrictions. I can't really tell you how Nova is set up for this...but you might want to find out.

As it works out, the last two classes have averaged a first-time pass rate of 97% on step one, and the class average is around 550, well above the national mean. The only school that had beaten Lecom-B in the last two years is TCOM.

I don't think I need to mention that tuition for out-of-staters is much less at Lecom-B, and the cost of living isn't any higher.

Only one class has graduated at Lecom-B, and they weren't looking for great residency placements, but they turned out to be pretty darned good. IMHO, the residency placements don't get a lot better than this. I can't wait to see this year's results. Although posted elsewhere, here's a recap:

Allopathic = *

Anesthesiology
Doctor's Hospital, Columbus, OH
*Pennsylvania State University, Hershey, PA
*Shands/University of Florida, Gainesville, FL
*St. Barnabas Medical Center, Livingston, NJ
*University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
*University of Texas Southwestern, Dallas, TX

Diagnostic Radiology
*Hospital of St Raphael, New Haven, CT
*St. Barnabas Medical Center, Livingston, NJ

Emergency Medicine
Genesys Health Systems, Grand Blanc, MI
Hamot Medical Center, Erie, PA
*Mt Sinai Medical Center, Miami Beach, FL
*Mt Sinai Medical Center, Miami Beach, FL
Ohio Valley Medical Center, Wheeling, WV
Palms West Hospital, West Palm Beach, FL
Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital, Pontiac, MI
St John Oakland Hospital, Madison Heights, MI
*St Vincent Mercy Medical Center, Toledo, OH
*University at Buffalo, Buffalo, NY
*University of Illinois-Chicago, Chicago, IL
*University of Mississippi, Jackson, Mississippi
*University of Tennessee-Chattanooga, Chattanooga,TN

ENT
Grandview Hospital, Dayton, OH

Family Medicine
*Akron General Medical Center/NEOUCOM, Akron, OH
Capital Regional Medical Center, Jefferson City, MO
*Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN
Memorial Hospital, York, PA
MetroHealth Medical Center, Cleveland, OH
*Naval Air Station, Jacksonville, FL
*Southwest Washington Medical Center, Vancouver, WA
St Luke's Hospital, Bethlehem, PA

Family Medicine/Dermatology
St. John's Episcopal Hospital, Far Rockaway, NY

Family Medicine/Neuromuscular Medicine
Botsford Hospital, Farmington Hills, MI

Family Medicine/Sports Medicine
*Utah Valley Regional Medical Center, Provo, UT

General Surgery
Doctors Hospital, Columbus, OH
Henry Ford Wyandotte, Wyandotte, MI
Mercy Suburban Hospital, Norristown, PA
Mt Clemens Regional Medical Center, Mt Clemens, OH
Oakwood Southshore, Trenton, MI
*University of Illinois-Chicago (Mt Sinai), Chicago, IL

Internal Medicine
*Drexel University, Philadelphia, PA
Garden City Hospital, Garden City, MI
Garden City Hospital, Garden City, MI
*Greenville Hospital System/USC, Greenville, SC
Keesler AFB/Keesler Medical Center, Biloxi, MS
Mercy Suburban Hospital, Norristown, PA
Mercy Suburban Hospital, Norristown, PA
Mt. Clemens Regional Medical Center, Mt Clemens, MI
Mt. Clemens Regional Medical Center, Mt Clemens, MI
*NSLIJHS-North Shore Univ Hosp, Manhasset, NY
Oklahoma State University, Tulsa, OK
Oklahoma State University, Tulsa, OK
*Shands/University of Florida-Jacksonville, Jacksonville, FL
*SUNY Downstate, Brooklyn, NY
*University at Buffalo, Buffalo, NY
*University of South Florida, Tampa, FL
*University of Tennessee, Chattanooga, TN
*UPMC Mercy Hospital of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA

Internal Medicine/Pediatrics
*Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
*University of South Florida, Tampa, FL

Neurology
*Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, MI
*Shands/University of Florida-Jacksonville, Jacksonville, FL

ObGyn
*Bayfront Medical Center, St Petersburg, FL
Ingham Regional Medical Center, Lansing, MI
*Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
*UMDNJ Newark, Newark, NJ
*University at Buffalo/Sisters of Charity, Buffalo, NY

Ophthalmology
Valley Hospital Medical Center, Las Vegas, NV

Orthopedic Surgery
Doctors Hospital, Columbus, OH
Grandview Hospital, Dayton, OH
Ingham Regional Medical Center, Lansing, MI
*University of Missouri-Columbus, Columbus, MO

Pathology
*Drexel University, Philadelphia, PA

Pediatrics
*Children's Hospital of Akron, Akron, OH
*Children's Hospital, Buffalo, NY
*Shands/University of Florida, Gainesville, FL
*University of South Florida, Tampa, FL
*University of South Florida, Tampa, FL

Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
*Jackson Memorial Hospital/UM, Miami, FL
*Rush University Medical Center, Chicago, IL
*UPMC, Pittsburgh, PA

Psychiatry
*Naval Medical Center, Portsmouth, Virginia
*Ohio State University Medical Center, Columbus, OH
*St. Vincent's Hospital, New York, NY
*Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
*University of South Florida, Tampa, FL

Again, the decision is up to you, but you'll get a good education no matter who you choose. The rest is up to you.

 

[linkDO]

also remembered that NSU offers some sort of Kaplan board prep. sounded like they were expanding it as well.

 

[Gatorgirl25]

I'm fairly new to SDN and I also have a question regarding NSU vs LECOM-B. I had a VERY early interview with LECOM-B and was accepted very quickly. Warned against not taking advantage of this opportunity, I sent in my $1500 deposit to hold my seat in the class. I recently received an interview at NSU this month and now am also torn. I know that an interview doesn't mean acceptance, but I feel bound to LECOM already. Does that deposit legally bind me to attend LECOM and if I break it, what happens???!! I still may decide to go to LECOM since I fell in love with it to begin with, but am not opposed to looking elsewhere being still early in the year. Help!

 

[PunkmedGirl]

I'm fairly new to SDN and I also have a question regarding NSU vs LECOM-B. I had a VERY early interview with LECOM-B and was accepted very quickly. Warned against not taking advantage of this opportunity, I sent in my $1500 deposit to hold my seat in the class. I recently received an interview at NSU this month and now am also torn. I know that an interview doesn't mean acceptance, but I feel bound to LECOM already. Does that deposit legally bind me to attend LECOM and if I break it, what happens???!! I still may decide to go to LECOM since I fell in love with it to begin with, but am not opposed to looking elsewhere being still early in the year. Help!

No you are fine, the only thing that will happen if you decide not to go to LECOM is you will be out of 1500 dollars. You can put down as many deposits as you want with no legal backlash.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I'm fairly new to SDN and I also have a question regarding NSU vs LECOM-B. I had a VERY early interview with LECOM-B and was accepted very quickly. Warned against not taking advantage of this opportunity, I sent in my $1500 deposit to hold my seat in the class. I recently received an interview at NSU this month and now am also torn. I know that an interview doesn't mean acceptance, but I feel bound to LECOM already. Does that deposit legally bind me to attend LECOM and if I break it, what happens???!! I still may decide to go to LECOM since I fell in love with it to begin with, but am not opposed to looking elsewhere being still early in the year. Help!

Initial deposits like the one you sent to LECOM are NOT legally binding. You can break them, at the risk of the school keeping all or most of your money, depending on their deposit schedule. Just ask them how much of it is refundable until what date. Someone around here is bound to check this and answer these exact questions sometine soon, though.

You would be wise to attend all the interviews you can afford/have interest in, while trying to strategically plan them so that you waste the least amount possible on deposits.

 

[nevinleiby]

It may be me, but it seems like Nova seems to be an good choice if you are hoping to remain in Florida/South East. LECOM may have less to offer for someone in the region, but better ties for the Northeast/anywhere else. (ignoring PBL, reputation, location within FL, environment, administration/rules, etc)

-- My $0.00002 after tearing my hairout for the past 3 days and finally browsing http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/

Thoughts anyone??

 

[DocHas]

I interviewed at Nova the day after interviewing at LECOM B and was accepted to both. I have decided to go to LECOM B for the following reasons (in no particular order):

* Tuition is significantly cheaper. And I expect cost of living will be marginally cheaper (or at least, nicer housing to be available for comparable prices).

* I love PBL. I think studying within the context of "real" patients will help me retain what I learn and be more fun and interesting.

* During my interview day at NOVA, the three current students we spoke to all admitted that if they did attend lecture, they sat in the back of the room and read instead of listening. And most of them would attempt to avoid lecture on a regular basis, which required them giving their badges to friends to swipe on the way into lecture hall (as lectures are mandatory). Being required to spend endless hours on campus attending lectures that many students deem less useful that independent study sounds tedious to me. As others have pointed out, at LECOM B, you are required to spend little time on campus after anatomy is over allowing you to study whenever and whereever you like.

* The beaches in Bradenton will be much less crowded than those in Ft. Lauderdale.

* I have a grandfather in St. Pete, and an uncle, aunt and cousins in Tampa. Having the support of family nearby appeals to me.

* Despite being such a new school, LECOM B students seem to be performing really well.

To be fair, here's what I liked about NOVA:

* The school has been around awhile and is well-established, seems well-respected.

* Students wear comfy scrubs to class (as opposed to professional attire at LECOM B *sigh*)

* I suspect that my S.O. might find it marginally easier to find a job in Ft. Lauderdale and might prefer living there.

* NOVA has some great facilities/amenities for students. (The new student center/gym is especially nice).

I think they are both fine schools. It just comes down personal preference.

 

[MossPoh]

I always forget that there is such a huge tuition difference between the two for OOS people. It wasn't enough difference for me! (only a couple grand)

 

[MSmentor018]

it's all about how you learn. the main diff is PBL for the 1st 2 yrs. after that, 3-4th yr is pretty close with a little variation. if you're a self motivator, like to make your own schedule to study, and can't sit in class for long lectures... LECOM would be a great choice. i am in rotations now at LECOM and so far it's been a good experience, no complaints or regrets. congrats and good luck on whichever you choose, you can't go wrong with either!

 

[Gatorgirl25]

I just went on my interview to NOVA this past Friday and one of the students said something quite disturbing that made me nervous about my decision on going to LECOM-Bradenton. One of them mentioned that at NOVA, they are willing to help their students if they fail one two or even 6 courses. But they said at LECOM if you fail at one course, you can be automatically dismissed. It's not that I'm worried I will fail a course, but having that support system at your school seems like a deal maker or breaker to me.

 

[howard100]

...But they said at LECOM if you fail at one course, you can be automatically dismissed.

I would take that info with a grain of salt:

The way the classes are structured at LECOM-B, you do not have individual courses for core sciences, but rather one large (32 credit I believe) course. This is because of the PBL method; each topic (pharm, micro, path, etc) is covered multiple times in the context of different cases. So, failing "one course" at Bradenton would really be like failing a few courses at Nova.

The thought behind this method being that you don't just learn something once, test on it, and put it aside. Also, because of the PBL at LECOM-B, if you are struggling with a particular topic, it will become evident much quicker. You can't get through a PBL session without knowing what is going on.

 

[digitlnoize]

I just went on my interview to NOVA this past Friday and one of the students said something quite disturbing that made me nervous about my decision on going to LECOM-Bradenton. One of them mentioned that at NOVA, they are willing to help their students if they fail one two or even 6 courses. But they said at LECOM if you fail at one course, you can be automatically dismissed. It's not that I'm worried I will fail a course, but having that support system at your school seems like a deal maker or breaker to me.

Lies, all lies. I personally know people that failed anatomy (as well as other courses) and you are not dismissed until you've failed a few things...

LECOM-B is GREAT about working with you if you're having trouble, and will figure out how they can help you succeed, if you're willing to put in the work.

Other things:

1. We're VERY social. I have tons of friends and we hang out all the time. I think what you see at interview doesn't represent this part of LECOM-B life very well.

2. From what I've seen, LECOM-B students generally seem happier.

3. NOVA does turn out good docs, but so do we.

4. There were plenty of LECOM-B matches in Florida for whoever said that NOVA was a better choice for remaining in Florida.

I know I'm biased, but LECOM-B rocks.

 

[n618ft]

Bringing back an old thread but I applied to both this year and my stats are decent (3.8/29). I've visited NSU and am very familiar with the Ft. Lauderdale area but not too familiar w/ Bradenton. I just wanted to get a gauge of what people thought about the locals. I'm sure there's smoking hot girls in both areas but a lot of the Ft. Laudy/Miami "scene" hasn't been my thing. If you've gone out of your small medical student click, who are you running into locally? I figured there'd be more young'ens in Ft. Laudy than Bradenton, no?

 

[nlax30]

Bringing back an old thread but I applied to both this year and my stats are decent (3.8/29). I've visited NSU and am very familiar with the Ft. Lauderdale area but not too familiar w/ Bradenton. I just wanted to get a gauge of what people thought about the locals. I'm sure there's smoking hot girls in both areas but a lot of the Ft. Laudy/Miami "scene" hasn't been my thing. If you've gone out of your small medical student click, who are you running into locally? I figured there'd be more young'ens in Ft. Laudy than Bradenton, no?

That's probably a safe bet. If you're looking more for a larger city sort of social scene than Bradenton isn't going to compare to Ft Lauderdale, though we do have Tampa/St Pete just 45min away. All depends what you're looking for. I'm married so definitely wasn't concerned with trying to check out the locals but, at least for the first 2 years... wherever you go, I'm willing to say most of your social interaction is going to be with your own classmates.

Sarasota has some decent bars and there are a couple of community colleges and New College down in Sarasota so there at least is some sort of "young" crowd around but if there were many others who really ventured outside of the school click that would be the exception not the rule.

 

[digitlnoize]

That's probably a safe bet. If you're looking more for a larger city sort of social scene than Bradenton isn't going to compare to Ft Lauderdale, though we do have Tampa/St Pete just 45min away. All depends what you're looking for. I'm married so definitely wasn't concerned with trying to check out the locals but, at least for the first 2 years... wherever you go, I'm willing to say most of your social interaction is going to be with your own classmates.

Sarasota has some decent bars and there are a couple of community colleges and New College down in Sarasota so there at least is some sort of "young" crowd around but if there were many others who really ventured outside of the school click that would be the exception not the rule.

What he said...

Also married, but I'd say that most of the dating that happens occurs within the class (or school). There just isn't time to be running around town...

 

[n618ft]

What he said...

Also married, but I'd say that most of the dating that happens occurs within the class (or school). There just isn't time to be running around town...

Dating another a med student or premed? No thanks man- I don't want another one of myself. Not my thing. (can't find a barf smiley)

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Dating another a med student or premed? No thanks man- I don't want another one of myself. Not my thing. (can't find a barf smiley)

 

[n618ft]

Gracias

 

[DitchDoc73]

Bringing an old post back to life, because I have received a few PMs about this exact subject... Here are my thoughts, as I am in the same situation.

I think that I am personally leaning towards NSU over LECOM-B. I liked both schools, and I believe that both schools will give me a good education.

1.) That being said, I am a little concerned about PBL. I like this in theory, but I am concerned about not being taught all of the information that I should receive in medical school. Here is my justification for that statement. I sat in on a PBL session with 2nd year students. The case was interesting, but then they were given an EKG. Not one of the students in the group was able to read and interperet the EKG. I am a Paramedic, and there were two items on the EKG that anyone who has had even some education about EKGs should have been able to see from across the room (in case you were wondering, it was Left Ventricular Hypertrophy and Hyperkalemia). I believe that this is something that a 2nd year medical student should be able to pick up, and this keeps sticking in my mind.
2.) I like the support services that a full university provides versus a branch campus with only 1 office building (i.e. student health services, recreation, etc.)
3.) NSUCOM has a solid reputation for the medical students it produces. I feel that LECOM-B is still building its reputation (but it is still good).
4.) I am a little concerned about LECOM-B not paying for 3rd/4th year clerkships. With an ever increasing number of medical students (several new schools and increasing class sizes here in florida), I am concerned that LECOM-B may lose some of its sites to schools that pay for their students rotations. (Just my personal thoughts, I have no proof of this!)

These are my personal opinions, but if you have any input I would love to hear it.

 

[nlax30]

I'll only address the PBL issue as the paying for rotations and larger school atmosphere are definitely valid issues that each person has to decide for themselves whether or not they are deal breakers.

PBL will prep you just fine. That is a fairly common fear, even among students during 1st 2 years. Chances are you sat in on the session before they all had ECG lectures in clinical exam. Also, keep in mind that the first two years are really about becoming versed in the "language" of medicine and forming some sort of basic knowledge base and not about outright clinical skills. Since you come from a medic background you already have some of those practical clinical skills that really are not important in years 1 or 2. At that stage the focus would be on really understanding basic heart physio and the theory behind ECG, and once you that knowledge it's not a large leap to start learning the different criteria. I don't necessarily expect a 2nd year student to be able to interpret an ECG, but I would expect them to know about the electrical conduction system, the ions involved, basic disease states and effect on heart, etc..... And then on rotations seeing ECG after ECG is where it will really come together.

Point is we basically read through our just about all of our basic science textbooks, not sure how much can be missed that way.

We've had PA's, RN's, EMT's, and paramedics in our classes and I'm sure it's been frustrating during PBL when we've come across some clinical finding or lab result or test and everyone else had no clue what it was except them. Ex: for the ECG they may have just been able to glance at it and see LVH or ST elevation but still had to go spend hours reading about the detailed physio and pharm that they only had a clinical understanding of.

 

[DitchDoc73]

I'll only address the PBL issue as the paying for rotations and larger school atmosphere are definitely valid issues that each person has to decide for themselves whether or not they are deal breakers.

PBL will prep you just fine. That is a fairly common fear, even among students during 1st 2 years. Chances are you sat in on the session before they all had ECG lectures in clinical exam. Also, keep in mind that the first two years are really about becoming versed in the "language" of medicine and forming some sort of basic knowledge base and not about outright clinical skills. Since you come from a medic background you already have some of those practical clinical skills that really are not important in years 1 or 2. At that stage the focus would be on really understanding basic heart physio and the theory behind ECG, and once you that knowledge it's not a large leap to start learning the different criteria. I don't necessarily expect a 2nd year student to be able to interpret an ECG, but I would expect them to know about the electrical conduction system, the ions involved, basic disease states and effect on heart, etc..... And then on rotations seeing ECG after ECG is where it will really come together.

Point is we basically read through our just about all of our basic science textbooks, not sure how much can be missed that way.

We've had PA's, RN's, EMT's, and paramedics in our classes and I'm sure it's been frustrating during PBL when we've come across some clinical finding or lab result or test and everyone else had no clue what it was except them. Ex: for the ECG they may have just been able to glance at it and see LVH or ST elevation but still had to go spend hours reading about the detailed physio and pharm that they only had a clinical understanding of.

Sorry wasn't trying to downplay the level of education at LECOM-B. It was just something that stuck in my head, and the way the students reacted afterwards gave me the impression that they thought they should have caught the changes (and it was displayed via projector on the wall for about 10 minutes). I will acknowledge that they did have a thorough knowledge of the underlying clinical concepts.

 

[Altruist]

Sorry wasn't trying to downplay the level of education at LECOM-B. It was just something that stuck in my head, and the way the students reacted afterwards gave me the impression that they thought they should have caught the changes (and it was displayed via projector on the wall for about 10 minutes). I will acknowledge that they did have a thorough knowledge of the underlying clinical concepts.

I'm an ex-paramedic, and I'm at LECOM-B these days. I worked for a hospital-based ambulance service for 5 years, and during my downtime I spent a lot of time BS-ing in the ER. We had 3rd and 4th years from a pretty well-regarded state MD school rotate through, and trust me, the education medical students get about EKGs is very different from the one we got as paramedics. In their defense, I think it would be very hard to learn EKG interpretation from a physiology book.

Looking at my First aid for Step I book, all that's required of 2nd year medical students for step I of the boards is rhythm interpretation. No 12-leads. Although a 12-lead EKG book is one of our required textbooks, they might not have been tested on it.

Clinical experience is useful, definitely, but there aren't any shortcuts. It's not enough to look at a CBC and know a high white count = infection. You have to know how the body makes white blood cells, what causes their increased production and release, and all the other details of the immune response. I have to say, I never realized how much we skimmed over in paramedic school to get to the clinically useful stuff until I started medical school.

Anyway, I'm sure you can do well wherever you end up. Good luck with your decision.

 

[nlax30]

Clinical experience is useful, definitely, but there aren't any shortcuts. It's not enough to look at a CBC and know a high white count = infection. You have to know how the body makes white blood cells, what causes their increased production and release, and all the other details of the immune response. I have to say, I never realized how much we skimmed over in paramedic school to get to the clinically useful stuff until I started medical school.

Great post. 👍

And to DitchDoc, no apology needed, definitely didn't think you were trying to downplay anything. Just wanted to address that specific issue since it is a fairly common feeling, even among students during the first 2 years. At some point I think most have at least struggled with that feeling.

 

[scpod]

....Looking at my First aid for Step I book, all that's required of 2nd year medical students for step I of the boards is rhythm interpretation. No 12-leads. Although a 12-lead EKG book is one of our required textbooks, they might not have been tested on it....

12-leads are indeed fair game for step I. You will have several on step 2. The second years will have lectures throughout the last part of second year in reading them. Indeed, as was posted earlier, the reason for showing them during PBL is learn about electrical heart conduction-- not how to read them. They will get that chance through the Clinical Exam course as time progresses.

....... It's not enough to look at a CBC and know a high white count = infection.....

Right again.... partly because an increased white count does not necessarily mean infection. You will see leukocytosis in a whole lot of patients who don't have infections in your clerkships. Learning about the other possibilities, so that you'll be able to understand why it might be high in a particular patient, is one of the things that sets doctors apart from nurses or mid-level practicioners. Medicine just isn't that simple. It gets even worse in clerkships when you realize that all those signs and symptoms you learned about don't mean a whole lot at all. Most people do NOT have a textbook presentation for any illness. Medicine just isn't the cookbook that government and insurance people try to make it out to be. No two people respond exactly the same to any type of therapy. It can get really frustrating at times, so just try to learn all you can and do the best that you can do and you'll make it through in one piece.

It really doesn't matter where you go to school. You can learn the basics anywhere-- but learning to be a good doctor is a lifelong thing that some people will never get.

 

[DitchDoc73]

I never realized how much we skimmed over in paramedic school to get to the clinically useful stuff until I started medical school.

I can definitely agree with that statement. That was one of my pet peeves in Paramedic school....

Do this... Why??? Because it works... Why does it work??? I dunno, it just does!

I started realizing in my unergrad how much of the basics were just glossed over in Paramedic school. I think that is why I am so concerned with the level of education provided at all of the schools. I know that they will ALL provide me with the necesarry education. Thank you all for your inputs!

Does anyone have any insight beyond curriculum/PBL?

 

[Masayume]

I am deciding between LECOM-B and NSUCOM as well... I really like PBL. The only thing that concerns me about LECOM-B is the rotations... I want to be able to move around, but not for EVER rotation. I think it's fine to move from FL to PA, but I'd like to stay in one location for at least 3 months. Is this possible? I read some reviews and students mentioned something about a "base site". What is that?

My concern with NSUCOM is those lectures (I have read reviews and heard from my friends who go there) that they will have lecturers come in from the specialty. They will talk on and on about info that is not tested on the COMLEX and students end up studying for that teacher's specific exam instead of learning the info overall. Also, there is no designated book for the systems during 2nd year? It's all based on lecture notes. This is what I've read. I am also concerned that they accept 230 students and only 170 placed in residencies. I mean... I've heard NSU was a good school and the doc i shadowed went there. I dunno... tough decisions.

 

[beachblonde]

My concern with NSUCOM is those lectures (I have read reviews and heard from my friends who go there) that they will have lecturers come in from the specialty. They will talk on and on about info that is not tested on the COMLEX and students end up studying for that teacher's specific exam instead of learning the info overall. Also, there is no designated book for the systems during 2nd year? It's all based on lecture notes. This is what I've read. I am also concerned that they accept 230 students and only 170 placed in residencies. I mean... I've heard NSU was a good school and the doc i shadowed went there. I dunno... tough decisions.

to respond to your specific NSU concerns...(only an M1, so I don't know everything)

every school out there, at some point, is going to teach you something that's not on the comlex. the comlex is not an all inclusive exam, by its very nature. that being said, NSU works very hard to make sure what's being covered in relevant. this has improved over the past years so by the time you get to m2 it really shouldn't be a concern.

most medical schools rely on notes and use texts solely for reference. lecom is the only one out there I know of that uses only texts. you wouldn't want to learn only from harrisons or robbins. you probably would want to hurt yourself.

and I have no idea where you got the only 170 placed in residencies number. nsu's match list floating around on sdn is not complete, from what I've been told.

 

[Masayume]

and I have no idea where you got the only 170 placed in residencies number. nsu's match list floating around on sdn is not complete, from what I've been told.

When I interviewed, they gave us lists of all the people who placed in residencies for 2009. Dr. Whitehead told us that it was a list of everyone... so when i added them up, i was kinda shocked.

 

[DitchDoc73]

When I interviewed, they gave us lists of all the people who placed in residencies for 2009. Dr. Whitehead told us that it was a list of everyone... so when i added them up, i was kinda shocked.

Is it possible that multiple people placed into the same residency program?

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Is it possible that multiple people placed into the same residency program?

2 yr bump, but the list they gave us at the interview this year had 193 match into internship/residency for the class of 2011. Still kind of low for a class of 250, no?