LECOM or SGU?

[Brob459]

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LECOM or St George University in Grenada? Anybody have thoughts on which would provide me with better opportunities?

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

LECOM or St George University in Grenada? Anybody have thoughts on which would provide me with better opportunities?

Any American medical school will give you more opportunities than SGU or any other Carribbean medical school. The only exceptions are if you are a citizen of another country that doesn't allow licensure of MDs and you wish to practice there.

 

[kaikai128]

Also, if you are the kind of person (and I am not saying you are) that significantly cares about what letters are behind your last name--you need to take that into consideration. I have friends who couldn't cross this hurdle and are therefore going to foreign medical schools. I feel as if I will get a much better education stateside, but you have to do what works best for you.

 

[Sam212]

LECOM or St George University in Grenada? Anybody have thoughts on which would provide me with better opportunities?

This shouldn't even be a concern. LECOM will open a lot more doors for you than SGU. You are guaranteed a residency spot if you go to an American school, therefore, going to an offshore school while you have been accepted to an American school is jeoperdizing your career. Even though SGU's residency placement rate is in upper 90's, I still won't take a chance just for the sake of having M.D after your name instead of D.O. Now if I wasn't accepted to any American school, I would go to SGU in a second.

 

[docbill]

Maybe ask the people at SGU if they have any regrets?

They may tell you something completely different.

Either way choose the DO prof cause you want to... and that in the future you won't wish you did something different.

 

[OSUdoc08]

LECOM or St George University in Grenada? Anybody have thoughts on which would provide me with better opportunities?

Foreign Medical Graduates have MUCH more limited practice/licensure opportunities and have a MUCH lower success rate on board exams than do Osteopathic Medical Graduates.

Osteopathic and Allopathic Medical Graduates are considered equivalent in most residency programs (especially in primary care positions.)

Foreign Medical Graduates are very often "looked down upon" and considered inferior (poorly trained) by most residency programs.

Keep in mind that Osteopathic Medical Graduates also have many more residency opportunities (ACGME + AOA) than both Foreign and Domestic Allopathic Medical Graduates.

On the other hand, if it were me: I'd go to the cheapest & closest place to home.

 

[phdmed07]

No doubt about it go LECOM. Lecom will definitely open more doors especially 4yr if you are interested in doing away rotations, most programs in the country wont take carribean students.
ECU MED 07

 

[Doc2B-Finally]

Well, if you really want to get second opinion, post the same question at valuemd.com, in SGU forum. See what they have to say about SGU Vs. LECOM.
I personally prefer staying in US, doing DO.
Good luck.

 

[Brob459]

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Well, if you really want to get second opinion, post the same question at valuemd.com, in SGU forum.

Word of warning--the vast majority of ValueMD users are going to tell you SGU. That's just a given. SGU consists of quite a few students who actually had the option of going to osteopathic schools and chose SGU instead. The info there will be as biased as this forum is for DOs, so take the info (including mine!) with a grain of salt.

Lecom will definitely open more doors especially 4yr if you are interested in doing away rotations, most programs in the country wont take carribean students.

While some residency programs are very reluctant to take Caribbean students, it is inaccurate to say that most programs in the country won't take Caribbean students. If you look at the SGU alumni residency placement--they match at respected residency programs throughout the country.

Foreign Medical Graduates have MUCH more limited practice/licensure opportunities and have a MUCH lower success rate on board exams than do Osteopathic Medical Graduates.

SGU allows for accreditation in all 50 states provided you do the proper rotations. Texas is the biggest hurdle, but as long as you prove educational equivalence, I don't know of any practice limitations or licensure limitations. If you think that you might have an easier time matching in a residency by choosing a DO school over SGU, that might be true. But limited practice and licensure opportunities? I don't see any evidence of that post-residency.

SGU's board rate is for the USMLE. As far as pass rate, I think that the qualified students can compete with osteopathic pass rate *on the USMLE*. The success rate of SGU on the Step 1 on the first try is about 90%. The statistic is somewhat misleading due to a certain degree of attrition and students who decel. But I think it's unfair to compare COMLEX I pass rates with USMLE pass rates. Osteopathic averages are about 72% on the USMLE Step 1 on the first try if I remember correctly. Comparing these rates is not worthwhile as many osteopathic students don't even focus on the USMLE because the COMLEX is often sufficient to get them where they want to go. I'm merely pointing out that COMLEX pass rates shouldn't be compared to USMLE pass rates. Also, a 240 coming from a US DO student will probably carry more weight than a 240 coming from the Caribbean.

Foreign Medical Graduates are very often "looked down upon" and considered inferior (poorly trained) by most residency programs.

That really depends on the program. Some foreign medical schools have highly respected training. It's not uncommon for students from the better Israeli, Russian, Greek, Indian, Filipino medical schools to match into some excellent residency programs. Some prestigious residency programs are very IMG/FMG friendly--this includes hospitals like Mayo. And SGU students train in the US for both their 3rd and 4th years--mostly throughout New York and New Jersey. And these are good hospitals. If you look at the alumni placements of SGU students you'll see that they even become attendings and Chief Residents in Albert Einstein, Hopkins, etc. SGU students are limited in where they can do away rotations, but they share their clinical training at hospitals where US allo students rotate. Therefore, I don't see the argument in saying that they're not well trained. I think the primary issue of going to SGU lies in the fact that they're at a disadvantage in the match.

I'll be applying to medical schools a few years from now. I'm planning on applying to some osteopathic schools (but I'll admit they're not my first choice as my public allopathic school would probably be the wisest choice) and I will probably NOT apply to SGU. I'm just pointing out that SGU is not some crappy diploma-mill. It's an excellent school, but unfortunately its students are at a match disadvantage compared to students at US med schools. Also, I have friends at SGU and some of them said that they've had classmates who have said that if they could do it all over again, they would have applied to osteopathic schools. But there are also students there who would never go the DO route for various reasons.

To the OP, it really depends on how you define "better opportunities" and your personal goals. For example, SGU does not allow for many research opportunities and does not allow much freedom for away rotations. It also depends on the specialties you're considering, etc. In other aspects, SGU can provide you with experiences you'd never get going to school in the states. I actually know people who chose to go to med school abroad (not the Caribbean) even though they had competive MCATs/GPAs. There were SGU students who stayed in Grenada after it was hit by Hurricane Ivan to help with relief efforts instead of going home for a temporary vacation. There were other SGU students who organized a food/clothing drive for the destitute people of Grenada. There are even students in SGU who are doing clinical microbiology research that's specific to the population of Grenada and students pursuing combined MD/MPH programs. In a third world country, you experience a system of public health from a completely different perspective and can get specializations that few US med schools provide (e.g., tropical medicine). SGU has many disadvantages and in many ways will limit your opportunities as a medical student, but in other ways gives you opportunities that you would never get at a US school. You really have to evaluate what opportunities you want.

Good luck

 

[iliacus]

LECOM or St George University in Grenada? Anybody have thoughts on which would provide me with better opportunities?

It seems strange to me you're even debating this. What are you so concerned about? Enlighten us a little on why you're weighing going to an offshore medical school as opposed to lecom.

 

[Brob459]

It seems strange to me you're even debating this. What are you so concerned about? Enlighten us a little on why you're weighing going to an offshore medical school as opposed to lecom.

From what I have seen and heard of SGU I have been impressed. Looking at their match results it shows that many of their graduates have gone onto impressive residencies. I have searched and can not find a residency match for LECOM. LECOM as a school was nice, but the idea of 2 years in Erie PA doesn’t thrill me. SGU is older and more established than LECOM, which really hasn’t been around for too long (1992). The stats of accepted students seem to be slightly higher at SGU than LECOM. I like SGU's ability to do a few elective rotations in the UK. Also, its pass rate is comparable to US allopathic schools. The prices are similar. I have spent lots of time on valueMD.com and it is talked about fairly highly.

On the other hand by going to LECOM it escapes the extra hoops that FMG’s have to jump. Because I want to go into primary care, being a DO would not be a disadvantage.

That is why I am considering LECOM and SGU both. Thanks everybody for their input!

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Just a few points:

Erie may not strike you as the most exciting place in the world, but a good year and a half in Grenada and another half-year or so in St. Vincent's will not exactly be at tropical paradise.

Either school would get you where you want to go since you want to go into primary care. You looked at the match list of SGU, so I don't need to tell you that they have no trouble getting some kick ass primary care placements. However, if you're interested in the rural aspect of primary care, SGU is probably not the ideal school.

And remember, the pass rate at SGU is somewhat misleading. But any devoted student should have no problem doing well on the boards. After the second year, the students get a discount on the Kaplan USMLE Step 1 course and many of them do the course at the same location (some college in New Jersey). Most of the students use USMLE prep books to complement their studies and many of the classes are taught w/ the goal of learning the material that you'll need to know specifically for the Step 1.

Lastly, I hear this "jumping hoops" term thrown around pretty often. I think if you ask most SGU graduates, they will probably tell you that it's not really that bad.

 

[stoic]

I think it comes down to which place you feel more comfortable in. If you're a good student, neither place is going to keep you from your dreams.

Personally (and this is my personal opinion), I would try to get into a different US DO school and go there. I'm not a lecom fan. If you have to choose between lecom and sgu, i'd be inclined to stay in the states and go to lecom. it's just less of a hassle to go to any us medical school.

but the bottom line is that becoming a good doctor depends more on you than where you go to school.

good luck,
S

 

[(nicedream)]

From what I have seen and heard of SGU I have been impressed. Looking at their match results it shows that many of their graduates have gone onto impressive residencies. I have searched and can not find a residency match for LECOM. LECOM as a school was nice, but the idea of 2 years in Erie PA doesn’t thrill me. SGU is older and more established than LECOM, which really hasn’t been around for too long (1992). The stats of accepted students seem to be slightly higher at SGU than LECOM. I like SGU's ability to do a few elective rotations in the UK. Also, its pass rate is comparable to US allopathic schools. The prices are similar. I have spent lots of time on valueMD.com and it is talked about fairly highly.

On the other hand by going to LECOM it escapes the extra hoops that FMG’s have to jump. Because I want to go into primary care, being a DO would not be a disadvantage.

That is why I am considering LECOM and SGU both. Thanks everybody for their input!

If you don't want to live in Erie, why not go to the Florida school? Then you'll get the SGU weather and atmosphere, but in the good ol' USA. Also, LECOM has many international rotations available - in the UK and other countries around the world.

 

[robo77]

what don't you like about lecom? As a person who has been accepted to lecom, I was just wondering if I should be aware of any pitfalls if I do decide to attend lecom next fall. thanks

 

[stoic]

what don't you like about lecom? As a person who has been accepted to lecom, I was just wondering if I should be aware of any pitfalls if I do decide to attend lecom next fall. thanks

it's my understanding that they are very "old school" in terms of views on integrating osteopathic and allopathic medicine. i've been told that if you don't like the AOA party line, then you'll hate the atmosphere at lecom.

apparently there is a culture of silence in terms of disagreement. speaking out against the school in erie is not wise and the administration likes to micromanage the students (dress codes, attendance policies, etc.)

but i didn't apply or interview there, so my information is second hand. and that's not to say that good physicians don't come out of erie or that their students aren't happy. it just wasn't for me.

oh yea, and they have a branch campus with i think are generally terrible ideas.

 

[Docgeorge]

I interviewed in Erie. Man was I glad to beat feet from that place.

PS I gotta friend went goes to LECOM after spending a semester at SGU. He's says that you really need to be prepared to live in a 3rd world country. The place is really not the tropical paradise that they make it out to be and he said that anyone thinking about going to SGU or any island school should check it out.

On the other had I know of an other guy who did his pre-clinicals at SGU kicked ass on the USMLE and transferred to NEO-COM but he had to repeat his 2nd year all over again go figure.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

I interviewed in Erie. Man was I glad to beat feet from that place.

PS I gotta friend went goes to LECOM after spending a semester at SGU. He's says that you really need to be prepared to live in a 3rd world country. The place is really not the tropical paradise that they make it out to be and he said that anyone thinking about going to SGU or any island school should check it out.

On the other had I know of an other guy who did his pre-clinicals at SGU kicked ass on the USMLE and transferred to NEO-COM but he had to repeat his 2nd year all over again go figure.

I think you bring up a good point in mentioning conditions of a 3rd world country. It's advised to actually visit before you make the commitment, but many just go straight there without visiting--and many of them experience a rude awakening. I had another friend who was considering going to Ross and he had the idea in his head that it was gonna be awesome weather, chillin' on the beach, etc. Dominica is definitely not a tropical paradise. The only one out of the major Caribbean schools that fits the description would probably be AUC which is on a tourist spot / resort area (with night clubs, bars, gambling, etc.). AUC's attrition rate is considerably high and I can't help but wonder if all the distractions factor into that. You don't go to med school to party 24/7 (shocking, I know). Also, AUC doesn't seem to match well in more competitive specialties (the surprising exception is rads due to affiliations with Michigan hospitals).

Also, I have the strange sense that I've read about the transfer you mentioned above. There were posts on ValueMD about transferring to NEOCOM from SGU. But very, very few are able to pull off the transfer. And if I remember correctly, he entered in the Spring term which works out better for transfer hopefuls due to the USMLE timing. Students who enter in the August term can't take the USMLE soon enough to be eligible for transfer to US med schools (and there are very few of these). And repetition of the 2nd year would suck. VCU also takes foreign transfers now, but they have to take the USMLE Step 1 to "transfer" into the FIRST YEAR! Pretty ridiculous considering that by that time, they'll already be doing clinicals in the US.

DMU, by the way, is one of the osteopathic schools I may apply to. My specific concerns are the tuition (way more expensive than my state school) and the clinical setup. But I know it produces excellent clinicians-- I recently shadowed a highly respected physiatrist (not psychiatrist 😀 ) DMU grad. And in his line of work, some aspects of osteopathy proved to be beneficial even though PM&R is an allopathic specialty (e.g., manual manipulations are particularly useful in rehabilitation medicine and the "whole person" approach is highly applicable to rehabilitation patients).

Anyway, like stoic, I've heard some similar (significant) negatives about LECOM so I will not apply there when the time comes. But that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a good choice for the OP.

 

[BMW19]

Why do you think branch schools are a terrible idea? I think it gives students more options georgraphically and personally with the rep of PCOM i'm not worried.

BMW

it's my understanding that they are very "old school" in terms of views on integrating osteopathic and allopathic medicine. i've been told that if you don't like the AOA party line, then you'll hate the atmosphere at lecom.

apparently there is a culture of silence in terms of disagreement. speaking out against the school in erie is not wise and the administration likes to micromanage the students (dress codes, attendance policies, etc.)

but i didn't apply or interview there, so my information is second hand. and that's not to say that good physicians don't come out of erie or that their students aren't happy. it just wasn't for me.

oh yea, and they have a branch campus with i think are generally terrible ideas.

 

[raptor5]

Think about OMM as well. It consumes a significant amount of your time in and out of class. If you have no desire to learn it go to SGU. If you really want the MD go to SGU. My good friend went there for two years and then transferred to Drexel for his last two years. While transferring is not easy it is possoble. Think about the weather as well. I am not a big fan of LECOM but that's me.
Just remember that in the end it most likely is not going to matter where you went to school and if it does I do not think there will be much of a difference whether it is LECOM or SGU. Go where you would rather go and do not listen to us.
If I had to choose b/t those two schools it would be a hard choice but only b/c I like OMM otherwise I would choose SGU.

 

[stoic]

Why do you think branch schools are a terrible idea? I think it gives students more options georgraphically and personally with the rep of PCOM i'm not worried.

BMW

this has be discussed ad naseum, so i'll make it really quick. i don't think that there is anything wrong with the education any student would receive at a branch campus. however, idealogically, it bugs me that the schools are opening w/o first addressing state of DO postgraduate medical education. as it is, there are only enough spots for like 50% of graduating DO's in DO residencies, and many of those programs are not especially desireable. i think it's caviler and unreasponible for new DO schools to opening, during a time when the AOA is absolutely pushing it's graduates into DO residencies, without first addressing the number and quality of DO residency spots.

there are about 100 threads on the topic, so you can do a search for them and bump one or start a new thread to find out what others think about the issue.

 

[raptor5]

Last year there were 2670 graduates from Osteopathic schools.There were 2743 AOA approved internship positions.
The total number of AOA approved residency positions for all years of all specialties is 4973. The total number of residents in those programs 2327.
There are plenty of residency spots. Maybe not the residency that people want maybe not the place that people want and last but not least maybe not the quality that people want but there are plenty. Many osteopathic residencies close b/c of lack of applicants while others close do to poor standards, mismanaging of funds, or cancellation of contracts with hospitals.

Source: JAOA November 2004

I do question some of the info from this journal article. For example 19 Derm programs 68 positions and 45 residents. It is hard to believe that they can not fill derm spots. Maybe I will post something in the GME forum to see what is said.