If you find it necessary to quote me, at least get it right. I never said "couple" of friends; rather, a high number of friends at two of LECOM's better sites
let's try to keep the arguments about semantics to a minimum, ok? i still say small sample size (not really increased by your use of the word "high").
UPMC presbyterian is certainly not one of our sites (what a different world it would be if it was one); i'm sure you're not referring to UPMC mckeesport or UPMC st. margaret (our only UPMC affiliates) as "better sites."
The "broad statement", as you put it, is not solely based upon those opinions, either. But instead based on a few years of experience in developing curriculum and faculty development programs for some of Pennsylvania's medical schools
many "kinks" still need to be worked out. The PBL pathway being a major one.
so where exactly did you develop curriculum? how long have you been doing it? have you worked with a PBL curriculum before, and know what makes a good one or a bad one? how can you be so sure that LECOM's PBL curriculum needs "kinks" worked out?
or are you really just basing your opinions on the end result (suppposedly weaker students), which your "friends" have told you about?
and since you are claiming expertise in curriculum (or, at the very least, using your experience in this area to form the basis of your argument) perhaps you can comment on the various "kinks" of LDP at LECOM, such as mandatory attendence? most established allopathic institutions do not have such a policy, allowing students to attend only those lectures that they feel they will benefit from actually listening to, and to learn about topics they did not hear in person on their own time. i know for a fact that pitt med has this policy. this lack of free time for LDP kids at LECOM really leads to very little studying for the long term, as all they have time for is to memorize and regurgitate for their weekly tests - another "kink."
the fact of the matter is, board scores are significantly higher in PBL. our class averaged 550 on comlex, compared to 500 (the national average) with LDP. the year before us was an even greater difference. and before you downplay the importance of step I, a practicing clinician at a university institution, such as yourself, would know that the #1 determinant of getting through the door for an interview in a competitive specialty (especially an allopathic one) is a strong step I score. most good programs have cutoffs (and unfortunately, some throw DO applications in the garbage automatically, but that is a whole different issue).
The idea of PBL is great. They've made strides, but LECOM's program still has a long way to go in the eyes of people that matter.
two of the three LECOM MSIV's who matched into west penn's internal residency last month were PBL. there would have been another west penn internal medicine PBL match, had the third student not signed outside the match at CCF. what departments do your friends work in? i guess the osteopathic program director, dean of clinical medicine, internal medicine program director, and whoever else sits on the residency selection committee at west penn aren't "people that matter?"
so i ask again, which "kinks" are you referring to? the ones that produce higher board scores, and two recent residency matches at one of the hospitals where your "friends" say PBL students are weaker?
I am from NYC, a LECOM grad
my guess is that you were an LDP student who was upset that you had to go to class every day, and thought the PBLers were lazy and didn't do any work. this frustration was fueled by hearing dr. ziegler bash PBL on a daily basis, and further aggravated by the fact you got smoked on boards by a bunch of PBL kids who were never in school.
i have encountered an anti-PBL sentiment similar to the one you are exhibiting, but it is usually from the "old guard" types, who fiercely defend the traditional model of the education of medical students because they believe that change is not good for the system. but since you are a LECOM grad, and LECOM is <15 years old, you are probably too young for this to be the reason for your curmudgeonly commentary...
Oh and by the way, I'm not even a student in Erie. I went to Pitt
while a student and practicing clinician with UPMC.
...or did you even go to LECOM? who are you?
my own personal disclaimer to the above: in all reality, this is just internet banter. honestly, you are an attending, and I am a lowly medical student. geez, i should probably call you "sir." in the real world, i am your b****, and in the game of life, you win. you are probably smarter than me, have worked much harder than i have, and have CERTAINLY achieved more in your life. but that doesn't mean you're gonna be able to punk me down on web forum (at least not without a fight) - especially because i match in a week, and i've got nothing better to do with my time on this cush MSIV rotation than to argue with you.
http://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/2004%20archive/260804/images260804/dodge.jpg
touche.
