Legacy Question

[Mandy22]

Hi,


Here is my situation. I applied to a bunch of medical schools this year before I knew how I did on the mcat, which I took Sept 8th. I did not do well at all, in fact, I got the score I got on my 1st practice test before I began studying. 9PS 8VR 8BS. My gpa and everything are pretty good (3.7) from Emory and my extra curriculars are very very good. It is really just the mcat score bringing me down and I will take it again in April.
However, I have applied to those schools already. One of them, Downstate, my dad, mom, and uncle all went to, so I am a legacy. My mom says that they will give me an interview because of that, she knows this for a fact. My question is, that since I will have a courtesy interview and they will obviously not let me in this year, is there any way that I can use this to my advantage? Like, let them know that I know I wont get in this year but ask them what I can do to get in the next year? Thanks.

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[Kthanksbye]

I don't find "legacy" status to be very useful. My dad got his MD from a med school I'm applying to, and my mom got her nursing degree from the same school. My sister was rejected from this school twice. I will be interviewing there soon, but I plan on not bringing up family ties at all, unless they mention it. Med schools are very wary of nepotism, whether real or perceived, in my opinion.

 

[Mandy22]

Right, but they ask all about legacy status and stuff for some reason. Schools like GW don't ask at all. They also asked if any relative had ever been on faculty there, and my dad was for years. Why would they ask at all then?

 

[Kthanksbye]

I don't know. I know that most people believe the children of alumni get special treatment. It's not true in my experience. I have seen the reverse to be more true. A friend of my dad's graduated from a different medical school, and when his son applied to the same school, he was rejected the first year because of his connections. The father knew someone on the admissions committee and was told that they didn't want to appear to be giving out favors. Also, they said that doctors kids should not be going to public schools. Crazy. He got in the second year he applied, though. I've tried to tell people of these things before, and am always met with extreme disbelief. But that's what happened, so there you have it. I would rather not risk my application by attempting to play a legacy card.

 

[Lshapley]

I don't think you should bring it up, I'm sure your interviewer and the adcom will be well aware of this. It does work to your advantage a little bit...how much I think depends on the school. Sorry I'm not more insightful...

 

[Nokternal7]

Having family connections to a school tells them that you're less likely to turn down their offer of admission. Its a safer bet for the school.

 

[IceMan0824]

I don't find "legacy" status to be very useful. My dad got his MD from a med school I'm applying to, and my mom got her nursing degree from the same school. My sister was rejected from this school twice. I will be interviewing there soon, but I plan on not bringing up family ties at all, unless they mention it. Med schools are very wary of nepotism, whether real or perceived, in my opinion.

I don't know. I know that most people believe the children of alumni get special treatment. It's not true in my experience. I have seen the reverse to be more true. A friend of my dad's graduated from a different medical school, and when his son applied to the same school, he was rejected the first year because of his connections. The father knew someone on the admissions committee and was told that they didn't want to appear to be giving out favors. Also, they said that doctors kids should not be going to public schools. Crazy. He got in the second year he applied, though. I've tried to tell people of these things before, and am always met with extreme disbelief. But that's what happened, so there you have it. I would rather not risk my application by attempting to play a legacy card.

Anecdotal evidence for the win.

 

[Kthanksbye]

Anecdotal evidence for the win.

That's pretty silly. There aren't any studies of this to quote. Any discussion of legacy impact will be anecdotal.

And the leet speak is cute.

 

[IceMan0824]

That's pretty silly. There aren't any studies of this to quote. Any discussion of legacy impact will be anecdotal.

And the leet speak is cute.

No, I'm just proving that you love to generalize your experiences as representative of an entire population.

My dentist and his dad both attended the University of Maryland. So, if I am to pretend to reason like you, I would make a bold statement that legacy works. Everyone should strive to attend the same school as someone in their family. The case of my dentist clearly shows that schools consider legacy.

 

[Kthanksbye]

Do whatever you want. My observations tell me that two of the schools I have applied to are very cold when it comes to legacy and it is more likely to hurt you than help, especially if you try to push the issue. Other schools may be different. I don't know. It doesn't effect me, since I'm not "legacy" with them. I don't think it's the kind of benefit most people seem to think it is, however.

Also, during interviews, it is not generally considered a positive if your parents were physicians. The assumption is almost universal that you are not making your own career decisions and from reading common interview questions, I gather that the challenge for people from physician families is to prove to the interviewer that you aren't just following in your parents' footsteps.

You're not going to get anything other than anecdotal evidence on this issue. It's not something admissions committees will likely talk about openly, and there are no scientific studies to compare the anecdotes to. You'll just have to settle for imperfect speculation. Take it for what you will.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Do whatever you want. My observations tell me that two of the schools I have applied to are very cold when it comes to legacy and it is more likely to hurt you than help, especially if you try to push the issue. Other schools may be different. I don't know. It doesn't effect me, since I'm not "legacy" with them. I don't think it's the kind of benefit most people seem to think it is, however.

Also, during interviews, it is not generally considered a positive if your parents were physicians. The assumption is almost universal that you are not making your own career decisions and from reading common interview questions, I gather that the challenge for people from physician families is to prove to the interviewer that you aren't just following in your parents' footsteps.

You're not going to get anything other than anecdotal evidence on this issue. It's not something admissions committees will likely talk about openly, and there are no scientific studies to compare the anecdotes to. You'll just have to settle for imperfect speculation. Take it for what you will.

Why would they assume you are just following in your parents footsteps? Thats ridiculous, growing up while My dad was in medical school probably, if anything, scared me away from the medical profession. I knew how many hours he put in, and hardly ever saw him.

 

[Isoprop]

Kthanksbye has prefaced all of his comments with the emphasis that it is based on his experience. it is based on his opinion as an applicant. he's not declaring anything to be absolutely true. that doesn't make his input not valuable.

 

[Isoprop]

Why would they assume you are just following in your parents footsteps? Thats ridiculous, growing up while My dad was in medical school probably, if anything, scared me away from the medical profession. I knew how many hours he put in, and hardly ever saw him.

adcoms know that a lot of applicants are pursuing medicine because of family pressures. nobody wants to appear this way.

that being said, i dont' know if legacy status will help/hurt you. The OP's MCAT is a more troubling issue than this.

 

[MassTransport]

We're straying. Mandy, I don't think you should ask them what you can do for next year. The question leaves an undesirable aftertaste. If you do win an interview, use it as a chance to sell yourself for this year. Your MCAT score is not very high, that we can both agree on, but don't discount yourself at this point in the game, especially if you think you are otherwise qualified.

 

[kami333]

I don't find "legacy" status to be very useful. My dad got his MD from a med school I'm applying to, and my mom got her nursing degree from the same school. My sister was rejected from this school twice. I will be interviewing there soon, but I plan on not bringing up family ties at all, unless they mention it. Med schools are very wary of nepotism, whether real or perceived, in my opinion.

Between your experience with the ER doc and this, maybe they just don't like your dad?

 

[Kthanksbye]

Why would they assume you are just following in your parents footsteps? Thats ridiculous, growing up while My dad was in medical school probably, if anything, scared me away from the medical profession. I knew how many hours he put in, and hardly ever saw him.

I think it's ridiculous, too. But it's a common interview question. Just tell them what you said here when they ask you this. Actually, that describes my experience, too.

I would agree that the OP addressing her non-legacy issues during this interview cycle is probably going to be more productive. People get in with that MCAT, I hear. You should definitely retake as soon as you are scoring 30+ on practice tests.

 

[Kthanksbye]

Between your experience with the ER doc and this, maybe they just don't like your dad?

Nope, that's not it. Thanks for playing, though.

 

[osli]

Here's my anecdotal evidence...

kthnx' opinion is contrary to that of almost all others that I've heard express one on the issue.

 

[Kthanksbye]

Being a contrarian is not always a bad thing, especially when the conventional wisdom doesn't fit.

 

[batman1983]

One of, if not, the main reason most schools give preference to legacy ppl is because of the alumni donation connection the schools believe they can establish with these families. Yet, it is a know fact that legacy individuals get a preference when being reviewed. Why else would they ask for the information?

 

[Kthanksbye]

One of, if not, the main reason most schools give preference to legacy ppl is because of the alumni donation connection the schools believe they can establish with these families. Yet, it is a know fact that legacy individuals get a preference when being reviewed. Why else would they ask for the information?

Known fact? Who knows this? How do they know this? I have neither seen nor experienced this, and I do have some experience in the matter. I personally would rather not disclose this information to schools.

 

[osli]

Being a contrarian is not always a bad thing, especially when the conventional wisdom doesn't fit.

When your own observations, the collection of anecdotes you have encountered is a legitimate basis for your belief, but when someone else's observations, the collection of anectodes simply becomes the idocy of the masses.

Interesting. So anectodes are fine, as long as they support your point of view. Seems like there might be a lesson somewhere in there about the reasons anecdotes have long been considered useless for making objective conclusions...

 

[Kthanksbye]

When your own observations, the collection of anecdotes you have encountered is a legitimate basis for your belief, but when someone else's observations, the collection of anectodes simply becomes the idocy of the masses.

Interesting. So anectodes are fine, as long as they support your point of view. Seems like there might be a lesson somewhere in there about the reasons anecdotes have long been considered useless for making objective conclusions...

No one else here has offered any anecdotes for why they believe having "legacy" status is beneficial. Just me. Guess this is what you get for sticking your neck out. The closest we have come is that it's a "known fact." So I'm not sure how I have favored one set of anecdotes over another. Generally, people who believe strongly that "legacy" status will sway admissions committees don't have family in medicine to test their theory.

If anyone else has first hand experience with this issue and can offer some of their own anecdotes, I'd be willing to hear it. So far, none has been produced.

 

[kanelope]

Here's my anecdotal evidence...

kthnx' opinion is contrary to that of almost all others that I've heard express one on the issue.

Honestly it depends on the school and its size, although I think getting an interview completely b/c of "legacy" is crap. Some schools don't do it b/c then they would have to interview/accept every kid whose parent went to med school there or practices at their hospital. Can you imagine what the application process would be like if this was the case everywhere?

Sure it happens, but give yourself some credit if you do get an interview b/c I'm sure you've had to meet the at least the minimum requirements. And people do get in w/ 25's on their MCAT.

My story: My father went to med school at a small private school. He went to the reunion a week after I sent in my secondary where he mentioned to multiple people on the interview and admissions boards that I was applying (I had already been accepted to 2 schools so he was very proud of me, especially since one was a school he had been rejected at ). I was "certainly" going to get an interivew they said. I was rejected 2 weeks later post-secondary. They have to make cuts somewhere.

 

[IceMan0824]

No one else here has offered any anecdotes for why they believe having "legacy" status is beneficial. Just me. Guess this is what you get for sticking your neck out. The closest we have come is that it's a "known fact." So I'm not sure how I have favored one set of anecdotes over another. Generally, people who believe strongly that "legacy" status will sway admissions committees don't have family in medicine to test their theory.

If anyone else has first hand experience with this issue and can offer some of their own anecdotes, I'd be willing to hear it. So far, none has been produced.

I provided anecdotal evidence.

My dentist (OMFS) was accepted and matriculated at the same dental school/medical school as his dad.
As an OMFS, they both hold medical degrees from the same school as their dental school.

Of course, I realize this is purely anecdotal and can not be statistically representative of the general population. As such, I choose not to make bold conclusions based on those evidence.

 

[Kthanksbye]

I provided anecdotal evidence.

My dentist (OMFS) was accepted and matriculated at the same dental school/medical school as his dad.
As an OMFS, they both hold medical degrees from the same school as their dental school.

Of course, I realize this is purely anecdotal and can not be statistically representative of the general population. As such, I choose not to make bold conclusions based on those evidence.

I just assumed you were making it up. But I don't think the question was, "is it possible to have father and son go to the same school." Rather, "did the son get any preferential treatment because his father was an alumni?" about which you said nothing, perhaps because, as I would assume, you have no knowledge of the circumstances. So I'm still not counting it as on topic.

 

[osli]

I just assumed you were making it up. But I don't think the question was, "is it possible to have father and son go to the same school." Rather, "did the son get any preferential treatment because his father was an alumni?" about which you said nothing, perhaps because, as I would assume, you have no knowledge of the circumstances. So I'm still not counting it as on topic.

I guess I just don't understand your position. You say that others that believe legacy may sometimes help often aren't legacy and are thus not speaking from first hand knowledge. You seemed to speak from first hand knowledge about two schools that are "cold" to legacies, yet you are not a legacy to them. So what is that knowledge based on... accounts from friends of yours? How is that any different? You also stated that having family physicians generally a negative and that the assumption is that you are only following in [pressured] footsteps. How do you know that? Did the interviewers or adcoms tell you as much directly? Or did others relay this information to you? Or is it your intuition? You accuse others of not having actual knowledge of the circumstances of the admissions process in specific cases, but I tend to think you don't either.

Personally, I believe that in certain circumstances both connections and legacy status may have a significant impact on a specific applicant's fate, but for the average applicant (the vast majority of all applicants) it is simply not a big deal. However, I also doubt that it is in any way a negative for most applicants to either be a legacy or have family physicians. It's simply one factor on a list of many adcoms can consider, and it probably isn't often very high on that list... but I don't understand the logic that it is detrimental (any more than I understand the logic that making a connection to a residency program won't help your chances there).

 

[Kthanksbye]

I guess I just don't understand your position. You say that others that believe legacy may sometimes help often aren't legacy and are thus not speaking from first hand knowledge. You seemed to speak from first hand knowledge about two schools that are "cold" to legacies, yet you are not a legacy to them. So what is that knowledge based on... accounts from friends of yours? How is that any different? You also stated that having family physicians generally a negative and that the assumption is that you are only following in [pressured] footsteps. How do you know that? Did the interviewers or adcoms tell you as much directly? Or did others relay this information to you? Or is it your intuition? You accuse others of not having actual knowledge of the circumstances of the admissions process in specific cases, but I tend to think you don't either.

It's difficult to speak about these things with people who are not following the argument. I am legacy at one school, which my sister also applied to, my dads friend went to the other, which his son applied to, making him legacy. So, that's as much first hand experience as I claimed. But it isn't nothing.

I have talked to many people who have interviewed and read interview reviews on SDN, in books, etc. It is not uncommon for interviewers to ask you whether you are just trying to follow in your parent's footsteps or have come to your own conclusions when you have family in medicine. They asked my sister that at most every interview, for instance. I have yet to interview, so we'll see.

I have not accused anyone of anything. The only other first hand experience posted on here is in agreement with what I said. Iceman's anecdote was not relevant, for the reason I stated. I never said it was impossible for someone to go to the same school as their parents. That's not even what we're talking about.

And yes, according to my observations, it can be a negative to have family in medicine when going through the application process. I've seen it stall one person for a year.

Personally, I believe that in certain circumstances both connections and legacy status may have a significant impact on a specific applicant's fate, but for the average applicant (the vast majority of all applicants) it is simply not a big deal. However, I also doubt that it is in any way a negative for most applicants to either be a legacy or have family physicians. It's simply one factor on a list of many adcoms can consider, and it probably isn't often very high on that list... but I don't understand the logic that it is detrimental (any more than I understand the logic that making a connection to a residency program won't help your chances there).

I would generally agree with this. I assume you're talking about a different thread in that last sentence. That thread also got lost because people were assuming things I never said. I never said not to make connections to a residency program. Again you were not following the argument. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree.

 

[mtn0417]

I interviewed at a school where my dad graduated from. In fact, they even mailed out a form for me that would allow a "mentor" to contact me who would help me with the admissions process. I am guessing this means interview tips, etc, but I can't tell you exactly because the time between my interview and its offer was 9 days. However, very explicitly it said on the letter that this, by no means, has any impact on admissions. I think legacy helps, though suggest against mentioning it during the interview. For the most part interviewers are not there by choice and look down upon anyone getting in through an easier pathway. This is not true of all interviewers, but some I know for a fact is is. (Previous employer of mine was an interviewer). I suggest staying in the best light with the interviewer as after the interview, their duty has ended. They pass their report to the Adcom. At this point, it is the only time legacy has sort of a pull, and it does. I am sure if two student of pretty much the same stats and all that mumbo jumbo were compared, legacy would win, it sucks for some, I know. To the OP, don't listen to this nonsense arguing. Being invited to an interview means, hey, you have what it takes to get into med school, now we want to get to know you. Now you have to sell yourself and get confident because obviously you are good enough if they extend an interview. Now master your explanation for the MCAT, and please don't use the I am not good at multiple choice excuse. So, anecdotally based on this, legacy guarantees interviews???? However, my folks both completed undergrad at another institution (mom did grad) and I don't have an interview there yet. So perhaps legacy guarantees nothing. I am sure it has some sort of positive effect, but not nearly as much as your personality will, so shine!

 

[IceMan0824]

I just assumed you were making it up. But I don't think the question was, "is it possible to have father and son go to the same school." Rather, "did the son get any preferential treatment because his father was an alumni?" about which you said nothing, perhaps because, as I would assume, you have no knowledge of the circumstances. So I'm still not counting it as on topic.

Why should you accept it? It runs counter to your argument, so it's easier for you to discount.

The moral of the story, if you are still following at this point, is

1) Each individual will be affected by legacy in different ways
If you cannot prove that you arrived at the decision to apply by your own assessment and still leave hints of parental influence, it is possible that legacy can be detrimental.

If you can show maturity and prove that you arrived at the decision to apply for personal reasons, it may be able to help (There is no real authority right now informing us how much legacy can help in this situation, or even if it helps but it doesn't hurt in this situation).

I make the example of a OFMS dentist who attended the same medical/dental school as his dad and followed the same career path. Obviously he was able to show the adcom something different.

2) There is no data to prove either argument. Everything we say will be anecdotal. Rather than making sweeping generalization, we should accept that, at least in the present, we do not actually know the answer to the question of whether legacy helps significantly or is detrimental to one's application.

3) Kthanksbye is always right in his/her head. That, and he/she just has rotten luck.

 

[foster033]

Between your experience with the ER doc and this, maybe they just don't like your dad?

Nope, that's not it. Thanks for playing, though.

okay. Maybe they just don't like you.

 

[ghostfoot]

Do whatever you want. My observations tell me that two of the schools I have applied to are very cold when it comes to legacy and it is more likely to hurt you than help, especially if you try to push the issue. Other schools may be different. I don't know. It doesn't effect me, since I'm not "legacy" with them. I don't think it's the kind of benefit most people seem to think it is, however.

Also, during interviews, it is not generally considered a positive if your parents were physicians. The assumption is almost universal that you are not making your own career decisions and from reading common interview questions, I gather that the challenge for people from physician families is to prove to the interviewer that you aren't just following in your parents' footsteps.

It sounds like you're framing your anecdotes in a way that gives you convenient excuses for potential failures.

It's silly to say that legacy hurts your chances and that having physicians for parents works against you. And going against conventional wisdom doesn't make you some esoteric genius.

Of course they ask doctors' kids questions to clarify their motivations for applying to med school! If you can convince them that YOU want to be a doctor, they'll know that you have an informed idea of what that entails.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I don't think you should bring it up, I'm sure your interviewer and the adcom will be well aware of this. It does work to your advantage a little bit...how much I think depends on the school. Sorry I'm not more insightful...

Unless you yourself bring it up, they have no idea. As others have said, make sure it is clear that you have made your own, well thought out decision.

It's silly to say that legacy hurts your chances and that having physicians for parents works against you. And going against conventional wisdom doesn't make you some esoteric genius.

Of course they ask doctors' kids questions to clarify their motivations for applying to med school! If you can convince them that YOU want to be a doctor, they'll know that you have an informed idea of what that entails.

I have never heard anyone say that being a legacy hurts you, until now. It doesn't. They're not going to let any doctor's kid waltz in with terrible numbers and no motivation but if he/she is a good student and self motivated you better believe that the legacy is going to help.

 

[Lshapley]

Unless you yourself bring it up, they have no idea. As others have said, make sure it is clear that you have made your own, well thought out decision.

I think this depends on the school's secondary and if the interview is open file. Most of secondaries I filled out asked about legacy, and some quite extensively. So, if those interviews are then open-file (which it also seems most are), the interviewer will know you are legacy.