Legal aspect of MMI

[MCATLasagna]

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Just a quick question about MMIs. Many scenarios I've seen feel as if they have legal (along with ethical) components to them. For example, if a child is abused, aren't physicians legally required to report it (do it in a respectful manner, etc).

Should I make a comment about also making sure I'm following any laws/professional guidelines or only answer the question from an ethical standpoint?

 

[DokterMom]

Just a quick question about MMIs. Many scenarios I've seen feel as if they have legal (along with ethical) components to them. For example, if a child is abused, aren't physicians legally required to report it (do it in a respectful manner, etc).

Should I make a comment about also making sure I'm following any laws/professional guidelines or only answer the question from an ethical standpoint?

"On the one hand, A, B, C"
"But on the other hand, X, Y, Z"
"Of course, I'd follow the requirements of the law, though at this point, I'm not really sure what they are."
"My personal inclination is to "

 

[Wahed]

From what I've heard, it's important to consider the legal component of your answer. If you don't know, just say that you would consult with your hospital's legal team to make sure your actions are legal.

FYI physicians are mandatory reporters so in the case of child abuse, the correct answer is: always report, no matter what.

 

[gyngyn]

Reporting laws vary by state. It is not reasonable to expect you know them. They want a logical approach to the dilemma.

 

[Goro]

Reporting laws vary by state. It is not reasonable to expect you know them. They want a logical approach to the dilemma.

This. We're not expecting insider knowledge, but for you to display what's in your heart and head.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Just a quick question about MMIs. Many scenarios I've seen feel as if they have legal (along with ethical) components to them. For example, if a child is abused, aren't physicians legally required to report it (do it in a respectful manner, etc).

Should I make a comment about also making sure I'm following any laws/professional guidelines or only answer the question from an ethical standpoint?

When I had my MMI I had a question about organ transplants and who I’d give a kidney to in some various situations.

I was adamant that what they were describing was illegal/not how it happens in real life, and just kept restating what the laws regarding organ donation are.

After the buzzer rang, the lady said “it was an ethical question sweetie, remember that for the next room”.

Luckily they drop one MMI station in scoring so I assume that’s the one they dropped.

 

[LizzyM]

When I had my MMI I had a question about organ transplants and who I’d give a kidney to in some various situations.

I was adamant that what they were describing was illegal/not how it happens in real life, and just kept restating what the laws regarding organ donation are.

After the buzzer rang, the lady said “it was an ethical question sweetie, remember that for the next room”.

Luckily they drop one MMI station in scoring so I assume that’s the one they dropped.

I'd hate that! I'd want to say, "Well, it is unethical to deliberately break the law to push someone to the top of the transplant list." Of course, I'm not in med school (as a student) and never will be.

Really, what that question should be is that you have been chosen to create an algorithm for transplants. Would you rank young age above old age and why? What about sobriety above alcoholism? Would you rank parents of young children ahead of childless individuals? etc. A card sorting task would be an interesting way to do it with the candidate describing why the items in the list are being placed in the order the candidate is choosing. Obviously, I've missed my calling and should be writting MMI questions.

 

[Med Ed]

When I had my MMI I had a question about organ transplants and who I’d give a kidney to in some various situations.

I was adamant that what they were describing was illegal/not how it happens in real life, and just kept restating what the laws regarding organ donation are.

After the buzzer rang, the lady said “it was an ethical question sweetie, remember that for the next room”.

Luckily they drop one MMI station in scoring so I assume that’s the one they dropped.

That is both cheap and lazy. Whoever wrote that station should metaphorically die in a fiery ethical car crash.

 

[RNtoMD87]

When I had my MMI I had a question about organ transplants and who I’d give a kidney to in some various situations.

I was adamant that what they were describing was illegal/not how it happens in real life, and just kept restating what the laws regarding organ donation are.

After the buzzer rang, the lady said “it was an ethical question sweetie, remember that for the next room”.

Luckily they drop one MMI station in scoring so I assume that’s the one they dropped.

It’s annoying when knowing how things really work handicaps you. Never been a pie in the sky kind of guy. Doesn’t matter what happens in a utopia, but rather how the real world works. Big thing I hated about nursing school. Little of it had real world applicability.

 

[DokterMom]

I'd hate that! I'd want to say, "Well, it is unethical to deliberately break the law to push someone to the top of the transplant list." Of course, I'm not in med school (as a student) and never will be.

Really, what that question should be is that you have been chosen to create an algorithm for transplants. Would you rank young age above old age and why? What about sobriety above alcoholism? Would you rank parents of young children ahead of childless individuals? etc. A card sorting task would be an interesting way to do it with the candidate describing why the items in the list are being placed in the order the candidate is choosing. Obviously, I've missed my calling and should be writing MMI questions.

Brilliant!

But then you'd miss an easy screen for the black-and-white thinkers who can't cope with hypotheticals or tough calls when there's an easy 'rule' they can abdicate to.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It’s annoying when knowing how things really work handicaps you. Never been a pie in the sky kind of guy. Doesn’t matter what happens in a utopia, but rather how the real world works. Big thing I hated about nursing school. Little of it had real world applicability.

Or you could realize it’s a simplified hypothetical scenario to see how you’d rank various patients on a transplant list. It’s definitely lazy but pretty clear the intent isn’t to see if you know how the law works.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Or you could realize it’s a simplified hypothetical scenario to see how you’d rank various patients on a transplant list. It’s definitely lazy but pretty clear the intent isn’t to see if you know how the law works.

I understand. But they shouldn’t be so damned lazy.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I understand. But they shouldn’t be so damned lazy.

I agree.

 

[Crayola227]

I disagree with all of this for the most part.

The point is absolutely not the law or any such thing.

It is completely fair to ask "what if" questions and ones that are meant to put you in a tough spot.

Literally what was on my page to rate applicants on, was how much they were able to consider multiple points of view, even those views were greatly different from their own or just outrageous. The point is to show balance, taking multiple stances into consideration, deliberation, thinking skills, empathy, etc etc etc etc.

If I asked you what criteria you would use for which sexual offenders to put to death, never mind that is not how the death penalty works in any state or what you think of the death penalty. You could state that, and you could say you are against it under any and all circumstances. But are you completely unable to imagine such systems? Are you completely unable to comment on them?

You will be forced to consider and deal with completely ridiculous, bizarre, unethical, illegal situations all the time in medicine. It's rarely how things "should" be by any standard. It is what it is and you deal. You answer questions that have no answer. You break rules all the time.

I will repost this in my interview thread, along with greater details on what I am instructed to look for in applicants.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I disagree with all of this for the most part.

The point is absolutely not the law or any such thing.

It is completely fair to ask "what if" questions and ones that are meant to put you in a tough spot.

Literally what was on my page to rate applicants on, was how much they were able to consider multiple points of view, even those views were greatly different from their own or just outrageous. The point is to show balance, taking multiple stances into consideration, deliberation, thinking skills, empathy, etc etc etc etc.

If I asked you what criteria you would use for which sexual offenders to put to death, never mind that is not how the death penalty works in any state or what you think of the death penalty. You could state that, and you could say you are against it under any and all circumstances. But are you completely unable to imagine such systems? Are you completely unable to comment on them?

You will be forced to consider and deal with completely ridiculous, bizarre, unethical, illegal situations all the time in medicine. It's rarely how things "should" be by any standard. It is what it is and you deal. You answer questions that have no answer. You break rules all the time.

I will repost this in my interview thread, along with greater details on what I am instructed to look for in applicants.

What are you disagreeing with? I don’t think a single person said the law is the point.

 

[Crayola227]

What are you disagreeing with? I don’t think a single person said the law is the point.

I should have said I disagree with everyone who has expressed an opinion along the lines that it isn't fair or that it is a lazy question.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I should have said I disagree with everyone who has expressed an opinion along the lines that it isn't fair or that it is a lazy question.

I mean there are ways to write those types of ethical scenarios that don’t have that problem. It’s a fair question though that I personally find to be pretty obvious.

 

[Goro]

I disagree with all of this for the most part.

The point is absolutely not the law or any such thing.

It is completely fair to ask "what if" questions and ones that are meant to put you in a tough spot.

Literally what was on my page to rate applicants on, was how much they were able to consider multiple points of view, even those views were greatly different from their own or just outrageous. The point is to show balance, taking multiple stances into consideration, deliberation, thinking skills, empathy, etc etc etc etc.

If I asked you what criteria you would use for which sexual offenders to put to death, never mind that is not how the death penalty works in any state or what you think of the death penalty. You could state that, and you could say you are against it under any and all circumstances. But are you completely unable to imagine such systems? Are you completely unable to comment on them?

You will be forced to consider and deal with completely ridiculous, bizarre, unethical, illegal situations all the time in medicine. It's rarely how things "should" be by any standard. It is what it is and you deal. You answer questions that have no answer. You break rules all the time.

I will repost this in my interview thread, along with greater details on what I am instructed to look for in applicants.

Another out of the park shot, Crayola!!!