"Less" competitive residencies

[GuP]

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i know the word less competitve for ophtho is an oxymoron...but,like other fields, there has to be some programs which are not considered to be top ranking and more easily attainable...can someone list some programs that are not top ten or extremely competitive and likely be achievable by an FMG?

also do anyone know of any other eye forums similar to auntminnie or orthogate?

 

[PDT4CNV]

i know the word less competitve for ophtho is an oxymoron...but,like other fields, there has to be some programs which are not considered to be top ranking and more easily attainable...can someone list some programs that are not top ten or extremely competitive and likely be achievable by an FMG?

also do anyone know of any other eye forums similar to auntminnie or orthogate?

I wont list any specific places, but in general, the smaller programs, with less than 3 residents/year, few faculty, at small hospitals that are not university medical centers are less competitive. Also, if you look at states that have multiple programs or with several programs that are relatively close by, you may find what you are looking for.

 

[GuP]

I wont list any specific places, but in general, the smaller programs, with less than 3 residents/year, few faculty, at small hospitals that are not university medical centers are less competitive. Also, if you look at states that have multiple programs or with several programs that are relatively close by, you may find what you are looking for.

again thank you for your reply. would u mind pming me some programs? i would really appreciate it...thanks

 

[Zonules22]

again thank you for your reply. would u mind pming me some programs? i would really appreciate it...thanks

In the midwest? Case Western's prgm is one that isn't that competitive but still has a decent general ophtho experience. I think there are a few others in the Ohio area...hope that helps.

 

[manning18]

Hello GuP! I am not applying for Ophtho (were I to do so I would, almost certainly, be unsuccessul). That said, I would agree with PDTVCNV's general comments. If you want specific programs, you can check by googling "freida" and following the links. Some programs that MAY (I repeat MAY) be a little less competetitive include: Arkansas, Howard, U South Florida, MCG (Georgia), Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland general, Sinai Hospital of Baltimore, Henry Ford, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Saint Louis, UMDNJ, Albany, Bronx Lebanon, SUNY-Buffalo, Nassau U, NYMC, LIJ(NY), St-Luke's Roosevelt, SUNY-upstate, Summa Health(OH), Oklahoma, Geisinger, Penn State, Temple, Drexel, Medical U South Carolina, Palmettp (SC), EVMA(VA), VA Commonwealth, West Virginia. I may be WAY off on some of these. I was just giong down the FREIDA list and choosing programs that might be a little bit less research oriented, more community based (i.e. Henry Ford, LIJ, Summa, tec), or in locations that are less desireable to the masses (i.e Kansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc). You can not always follow this rule o' thumb; for example, Iowa might fall into that last category and, I believe, is a top-5 program. You might wanna speak to some of your school alumni who matched in Ophtho or some of your faculty members about this as well. I have a feeling that, since I listed so many schools, they will agree and disagree with a good number, so it's best to speak to someone more familiar with the programs. Feel free to PM me with any questions but, as I said, I'm not applying for Ophtho (and, frankly, don't have the record to do so, though I probably wouldn't be interested, though I see why so many people are). Good luck!

 

[wtwei02]

I'm not sure how accurate that list is, because some of them are very solid programs that are competitive to match at. Signs of less competitive programs:

No VA affiliation
No full time staff in all subspecialties
Community attendings who are unpaid volunteers
Mandatory away rotations to get surgical volume/low surgical volume
No strong affiliation with a medical school
No research/dedicated research labs
On probation (although very good programs are occassionally on probation)

I interviewed at a few of the programs listed and was impressed:

Sinai-Recently split from Wilmer, very resident friendly, fellowship trained attendings in every subspecialty, has own oculoplastics program
UMDNJ-one of the stronger programs on the east coast. Amazing clinical training with high volume, close proximity to NYC, which makes this program extra popular
Temple-Amazing clinical training , serving a large part of philadelphia. Very busy, and residents consistently match into strong fellowships. Building a new eye clinic soon. No VA, but rotations in delaware to get extra subspecialty training. Very strong in Peds, Dr. Kubacky is a great teacher.
PSU-Very resident friendly academic program, fellowship trained attendings in every subspecialty, especially strong in retina with 4 attendings. Retina research group with basic science labs. Good surgical volume with VA affiliation. Residents interested in fellowships all match well.

Keep in mind that any smaller program in NYC will be more popular, due to location, even though they may seem less attractive due to fewer attendings, lower volume (due to NYEE) or older facilities.

 

[rubensan]

granted, manning18 said "may," but oklahoma does not belong on that list.

Some programs that MAY (I repeat MAY) be a little less competetitive include: Arkansas, Howard, U South Florida, MCG (Georgia), Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland general, Sinai Hospital of Baltimore, Henry Ford, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Saint Louis, UMDNJ, Albany, Bronx Lebanon, SUNY-Buffalo, Nassau U, NYMC, LIJ(NY), St-Luke's Roosevelt, SUNY-upstate, Summa Health(OH), Oklahoma, Geisinger, Penn State, Temple, Drexel, Medical U South Carolina, Palmettp (SC), EVMA(VA), VA Commonwealth, West Virginia. I may be WAY off on some of these. I was just giong down the FREIDA list and choosing programs that might be a little bit less research oriented, more community based (i.e. Henry Ford, LIJ, Summa, tec), or in locations that are less desireable to the masses (i.e Kansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc).

 

[GuP]

guys thanks so much for your input. anyone care to slim down or add to the list made my manning18?

 

[Zonules22]

guys thanks so much for your input. anyone care to slim down or add to the list made my manning18?

i'd add agree with the geographic criteria....schools, generally, in the southeast aren't as competitive. that being said, i think storm is underated somewhat. in the midwest, i think some of the ohio schools and chicago schools may not be too bad...since they both have many prgms. a good secret really is case western, which despite being in the same area as cc and not as competitive in terms of scores, has a decent number of faculty. the reality is that most people who apply match and match near their top choices...good luck!

 

[GuP]

since i am in NJ, would it make sense to do an away in the southeast i.e. maybe in GA or FL in order to be a better candidate for all the southeast programs? does this away rotation strategy also apply to other regions of the country also?

 

[Eleazar82]

i'd add agree with the geographic criteria....schools, generally, in the southeast aren't as competitive.

I must respectfully disagree with this statement. Programs in the Southeast that are highly respected and entertain a very competitive applicant pool include:

1. Emory
2. Vanderbilt
3. Miami-Bascom Palmer
4. Alabama
5. Duke
6. UT Memphis
7. Medical University of South Carolina-Storm Eye Institute

Interestingly enough, I got the impression that competition for spots at MUSC was more intense than some of the "top" programs because it offers excellent training; a friendly, supportive faculty; and a great city. Some of the "top" programs can't offer the latter two.

 

[google1234]

In response to manning 18, it seems like your knowledge of ophtho programs is not sound enough to make such a general comment. For example, UMDNJ, Oklahoma, and Geisinger are all excellent and solid programs. The applicant pools are correspondingly competitive.

 

[PDT4CNV]

I must respectfully disagree with this statement. Programs in the Southeast that are highly respected and entertain a very competitive applicant pool include:

1. Emory
2. Vanderbilt
3. Miami-Bascom Palmer
4. Alabama
5. Duke
6. UT Memphis
7. Medical University of South Carolina-Storm Eye Institute

Interestingly enough, I got the impression that competition for spots at MUSC was more intense than some of the "top" programs because it offers excellent training; a friendly, supportive faculty; and a great city. Some of the "top" programs can't offer the latter two.

I would completely agree, the south has some really excellent programs. As I graduated from a midwestern school and looked at a midwestern programs, I would have to say that many of the southern programs are far superior than those in the midwest, especially with regard to surgical numbers.

 

[Visioncam]

be a little less competetitive include: Arkansas, Howard, U South Florida, MCG (Georgia), Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland general, Sinai Hospital of Baltimore, Henry Ford, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Saint Louis, UMDNJ, Albany, Bronx Lebanon, SUNY-Buffalo, Nassau U, NYMC, LIJ(NY), St-Luke's Roosevelt, SUNY-upstate, Summa Health(OH), Oklahoma, Geisinger, Penn State, Temple, Drexel, Medical U South Carolina, Palmettp (SC), EVMA(VA), VA Commonwealth, West Virginia!

A weird list! Some don't belong on the list. Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Medical U South Carolina certainly don't belong in the list. Some, but not all, of the others were mentioned in a topic entitled "programs that suck". Do a search on this board to find it.

 

[Frumps]

Some, but not all, of the others were mentioned in a topic entitled "programs that suck". Do a search on this board to find it.[/QUOTE]


I can't find it....can you paste a link??

 

[smiegal]

A weird list! Some don't belong on the list. Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Medical U South Carolina certainly don't belong in the list. Some, but not all, of the others were mentioned in a topic entitled "programs that suck". Do a search on this board to find it.

If you're going to take Arkansas, Missouri, and MUSC off the list, you have to take off St. Louis University and Kentucky, too.

 

[golgi]

In response to manning 18, it seems like your knowledge of ophtho programs is not sound enough to make such a general comment. For example, UMDNJ, Oklahoma, and Geisinger are all excellent and solid programs. The applicant pools are correspondingly competitive.

Uhh, either you go to Geisinger or you have got to be joking. I wouldn't exactly consider it anywhere near an "excellent" program.

 

[confusedfmg]

is it even open for fmgs..i havent heard of any fmg who got it in ophtho...iknow of an fmg who got 95 plus in both steps..applied broadly and couldnt get matched....had to be content with intern med the next year

 

[monkey7247]

is it even open for fmgs..i havent heard of any fmg who got it in ophtho...iknow of an fmg who got 95 plus in both steps..applied broadly and couldnt get matched....had to be content with intern med the next year

Check the match stats in the FAQ. FMGs match, just poorly.

 

[Visioncam]

Some, but not all, of the others were mentioned in a topic entitled "programs that suck". Do a search on this board to find it.

I can't find it....can you paste a link??[/QUOTE]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=138148&page=1&pp=25

 

[vtrain]

Check the match stats in the FAQ. FMGs match, just poorly.

Two student from St. George's University in Grenada matched this year. One at Drexel and the other at South Florida. Last year a canadian matched (read - needed VISA) at LSU. It is difficult for an FMG to match, but definitely attainable.

 

[google1234]

Uhh, either you go to Geisinger or you have got to be joking. I wouldn't exactly consider it anywhere near an "excellent" program.

okay, i admit that geisinger was the one i tentatively mentioned - i heard it was decent, although i am not too familiar with the program. but i stand by the other two 🙂 and would add MUSC to my list of great programs as well 🙂

 

[GuP]

are the programs in the thread "programs that suck" still in that category?

 

[LASIKguy]

I am not an FMG but it is not fair to say FMGs don't match at good program.

I know of:

2 PGY3 FMGs at Mass Eye and Ear currently and they matched 1 FMG this year
1 PGY2 FMG at Baylor
1-2 at Wills currently

I didn't get interview from either of the above.

If FMGs have good scores and year or two of research they can make it to top programs.

Don't be discouraged, if you are smart and have great scores (~99) and 1-2 years or research or big wig letters, you can even get into Mass Eye and Ear

 

[GuP]

I am not an FMG but it is not fair to say FMGs don't match at good program.

I know of:

2 PGY3 FMGs at Mass Eye and Ear currently and they matched 1 FMG this year
1 PGY2 FMG at Baylor
1-2 at Wills currently

I didn't get interview from either of the above.

If FMGs have good scores and year or two of research they can make it to top programs.

Don't be discouraged, if you are smart and have great scores (~99) and 1-2 years or research or big wig letters, you can even get into Mass Eye and Ear

thanks for the encouragement 🙂

but i only have a 92 🙁

 

[manning18]

Thanks for commenting on my list. I was going based on my relatively limited knowledge of the Ophtho field and more general trends, i.e. certain locations and lack of major research strength leading to programs that are, in general, less competetive. Since my initial list was, apparently, not very good, maybe someone could refine it and add in others to make a more accurate list for GuP's benefit. Some of the people from my school who matched into Ophtho, but were not considered to be excellent students, matched into places including: Drew (CA), Howard, Saint Luke's Rooseveelt, and UIC (IL). I've heard that UW-Madison was having some accreditation problems, so maybe its competetiveness dipped a bit. I'll let people more knowledgeable with the specific prgrams than I come up with a revised list. Thanks!

 

[GuP]

Thanks for commenting on my list. I was going based on my relatively limited knowledge of the Ophtho field and more general trends, i.e. certain locations and lack of major research strength leading to programs that are, in general, less competetive. Since my initial list was, apparently, not very good, maybe someone could refine it and add in others to make a more accurate list for GuP's benefit. Some of the people from my school who matched into Ophtho, but were not considered to be excellent students, matched into places including: Drew (CA), Howard, Saint Luke's Rooseveelt, and UIC (IL). I've heard that UW-Madison was having some accreditation problems, so maybe its competetiveness dipped a bit. I'll let people more knowledgeable with the specific prgrams than I come up with a revised list. Thanks!

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