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Do you think there is discrimination against physicians with DO degrees as opposed to an MD degree? Do DO get paid less than MD?
Less respect with DO?
- Thread starter wingy
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There are many threads on this topic. I suggest you search them and read what people have to say. I have encountered many opinions regarding DOs. Many of the new doctors today have nothing against DOs and respect them. There are a few who suffer from anal inversion that think they are better becuase they are lacking in some area and need something to prove that they are bigger than others. Many of the old doctors, med grad prior to the 1990s, have some discrimination against DOs. I have encountered many people that have told me "why waste your talent on a DO school...go MD." I have had others tell me "You would make an outstanding osteopathic physician and DO is right for you." But I was told a riddle once and many have heard this riddle, What do you call a person who graduates from an allopathic medical school....a doctor. What do you call a person who graduates from an osteopathic medical school...a doctor. Why does the US legislature grant osteopaths the same rights as allopaths....because, in essence, we all do the same job...provide health care!!! Personally, I am accepting the challenge of going into osteopathic medical school and don't care what people say. Do what your heart and mind tell you and don't worry about other people say. Worry about yourself making the marks so you can apply to medical school. Then worry about Dos and MDs later because you will have a hard time getting into medical school with crappy stats, whether it be DO or MD.
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With respect to Edgar Allan Poe
The osteopath
I know, technically it's osteopathic physician since osteopaths are DOs in England
Once upon a midnight dreary
As I pondered weak and weary
About my future and the directions I myself should go
As I wonder what lies ahead
I decided to be premed
And took the courses in bio, physics, and orgo
So I broke the 40 MCAT threshold
Options I desired
but it was MDs that I aspired
but what's this osteopathic medicine I've never heard about before
Premed advisors I did ask
this advice they did pass
"DO is being a doctor through the backdoor
Why would you consider that with your score?"
Fellow premeds they did chide me
they held DO with bitter acrimony
"DOs are for idiots, losers, and nothing more"
This feeling I took to heart
osteopathy must be voodo art
I dropped this matter, this I will ignore
but then my soul began to soar
Medicine unit volunteer I did
amazed like a lone lost kid
I saw attendings and residents running around on the floor
This attending, he had fame
yet he had DO after his name
He told me "That's not something patients really look for
In reality, DOs aren't discriminated anymore"
"Education is nearly the same
Does it matter what's after your name?
MDs and DOs are here, and there, and everywhere galore
Although this I must concede
Most go into internal or peds
But that's the type of people DO schools look for
Trust me, I know the score"
"Both are paid exactly the same
Since we are both in the same game
I still don't know why people are willing to go offshore
DO Respectibility is my conclusion
and DO discrimination an illusion
PDs only look at recommendations and your board scores"
Quote the attending, "only this and nothing more"
The osteopath
I know, technically it's osteopathic physician since osteopaths are DOs in England
Once upon a midnight dreary
As I pondered weak and weary
About my future and the directions I myself should go
As I wonder what lies ahead
I decided to be premed
And took the courses in bio, physics, and orgo
So I broke the 40 MCAT threshold
Options I desired
but it was MDs that I aspired
but what's this osteopathic medicine I've never heard about before
Premed advisors I did ask
this advice they did pass
"DO is being a doctor through the backdoor
Why would you consider that with your score?"
Fellow premeds they did chide me
they held DO with bitter acrimony
"DOs are for idiots, losers, and nothing more"
This feeling I took to heart
osteopathy must be voodo art
I dropped this matter, this I will ignore
but then my soul began to soar
Medicine unit volunteer I did
amazed like a lone lost kid
I saw attendings and residents running around on the floor
This attending, he had fame
yet he had DO after his name
He told me "That's not something patients really look for
In reality, DOs aren't discriminated anymore"
"Education is nearly the same
Does it matter what's after your name?
MDs and DOs are here, and there, and everywhere galore
Although this I must concede
Most go into internal or peds
But that's the type of people DO schools look for
Trust me, I know the score"
"Both are paid exactly the same
Since we are both in the same game
I still don't know why people are willing to go offshore
DO Respectibility is my conclusion
and DO discrimination an illusion
PDs only look at recommendations and your board scores"
Quote the attending, "only this and nothing more"
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I have observed that it takes one positive treatment by a DO to convince the average patient that osteopaths are competent - if they've never been treated by one. Why shouldn't they be competent?
What sane person would say that the 4 tenets of osteopathy are illogical?
1. The body is capable of self-healing and self-regulation.
2. Structure and function are interrelated.
3. The person is a unit of body, mind, and spirit.
4. Rational osteopathic care is based on an understanding of the above tenets.
The combination of this outlook with modern technology and care is a potent thing.
Professional discrimination will always exist in every arena. Look at it this way...osteopaths are allowed into allopathic programs, but not vice versa. Who's discriminating there?
Good luck.
Ryan
What sane person would say that the 4 tenets of osteopathy are illogical?
1. The body is capable of self-healing and self-regulation.
2. Structure and function are interrelated.
3. The person is a unit of body, mind, and spirit.
4. Rational osteopathic care is based on an understanding of the above tenets.
The combination of this outlook with modern technology and care is a potent thing.
Professional discrimination will always exist in every arena. Look at it this way...osteopaths are allowed into allopathic programs, but not vice versa. Who's discriminating there?
Good luck.
Ryan
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Respect in any field is earned. Within some institutions, some parts of the country, and with some individuals, you may have to work harder to earn respect with a DO degree than with a MD degree. Hard work, a caring attitude, and self-confidence are essential to becoming a good physician. Once you become a good physician, people will respect you no matter what degree you have.
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Hey delayofgame,
I agree with you that, too often, osteopaths can become a little over-zealous or maybe a little bit bitter. I was warned NOT to become one of those and coming from a city where MD's and DO's work hand in hand, I can see why it's hurtful for everyone to have the attitude that, "somehow, somebody owes me something."
My question to you is...where in this thread, thus far, can you read a post resembling anything but positive, realistic, and sometimes even anti-osteopathic (in my case, sort of) logic? I mean...I said that osteopaths were the ones in the wrong, in my example. The fact that you assumed the worst of those who have contributed to this thread insults me.
I can only speak for myself, but the reasons I CHOSE to be a DO included a keen awareness of the fact that the top and most respected (by the nurses and patients) doctors at the hospital where I worked were DO's. Also, I think the osteopathic model of healing is more modern and sensible than the allopathic model. I don't care what skeptics may think about the competency of DO's. The only thing it would take to change his mind would be for me to save his life, and I'm learning how to do that.
I agree with you that, too often, osteopaths can become a little over-zealous or maybe a little bit bitter. I was warned NOT to become one of those and coming from a city where MD's and DO's work hand in hand, I can see why it's hurtful for everyone to have the attitude that, "somehow, somebody owes me something."
My question to you is...where in this thread, thus far, can you read a post resembling anything but positive, realistic, and sometimes even anti-osteopathic (in my case, sort of) logic? I mean...I said that osteopaths were the ones in the wrong, in my example. The fact that you assumed the worst of those who have contributed to this thread insults me.
I can only speak for myself, but the reasons I CHOSE to be a DO included a keen awareness of the fact that the top and most respected (by the nurses and patients) doctors at the hospital where I worked were DO's. Also, I think the osteopathic model of healing is more modern and sensible than the allopathic model. I don't care what skeptics may think about the competency of DO's. The only thing it would take to change his mind would be for me to save his life, and I'm learning how to do that.
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I applied to both DO and MD schools. I just want to be a physician. I have heard great things about OMT. OMT is not a chiropractic function. It is beyond that. OMTers intends on healing ailments and are not looking for routine visits as some chiropractors are. I think that if one truly wants to become a physician and has an inner desire to heal and be challenged throughout their medical career than either DO or MD should do the job.
Some will say that DO surpasses MD in that OMT augments the traditional medical education. Through OMT, DO's may have better musculoskeletal (hope I spelled that right) anatomy skills. They may even have an advantage over MD's at orthopaedic surgery. I don't know, but one could clearly argue this.
I will glady go to either MD or DO schools. I think that on the most part, DO schools have smaller class sizes. I know one MD that wishes she was a DO. She said that both have the same end result and same pay, but DO education was easier. I really doubt that because how the hell would she know. Did she go to both MD and DO schools? How could anyoe say that unless they have been to both types of schools?
About the osteopathic philosophy. It makes perfect sense to me. I don't think it proposes anyhting radical.
Overall, I have a burning desire to become a physician, so just choose a school, whether DO or MD, based on convenience.
Some will say that DO surpasses MD in that OMT augments the traditional medical education. Through OMT, DO's may have better musculoskeletal (hope I spelled that right) anatomy skills. They may even have an advantage over MD's at orthopaedic surgery. I don't know, but one could clearly argue this.
I will glady go to either MD or DO schools. I think that on the most part, DO schools have smaller class sizes. I know one MD that wishes she was a DO. She said that both have the same end result and same pay, but DO education was easier. I really doubt that because how the hell would she know. Did she go to both MD and DO schools? How could anyoe say that unless they have been to both types of schools?
About the osteopathic philosophy. It makes perfect sense to me. I don't think it proposes anyhting radical.
Overall, I have a burning desire to become a physician, so just choose a school, whether DO or MD, based on convenience.
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Here we go again... 
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The problem I have with this question is that I want to know exactly what is meant by "respect." Respect to a premedical student seems to be defined as:
- Having people envy you.
- Having people wish they were you.
- Having people "Oooo" and "Ahhh" at you.
- Having people never question your decisions or ideas.
Have you ever noticed this? If this is respect, I don't want any part of it.
As for money... are you nuts?! Same work = same pay. There is no such thing as separate payment scales for MDs and DOs. In fact, DO family docs that incorporate OMM into their practice can pull in up to 50% more income, than their MD counterparts. I worked with a doc that made an extra $500 per day just by treating people with OMM.
By the way, as a DO you won't find many people that "think less of you" compared MDs. From my experience, 99% of the patients I encounter don't know what a DO is... or what an MD is, for that matter. They only know what a "physician" is. So if I introduce myself as, "Hi, I'm an osteopathic physician" then my patients will say... "Huh?!" Likewise, if an MD introduces him/herself as "Hi, I'm an allopathic physician" then their patients will also go... "Huh?!" The public is largely ignorant of medical education in general and will frankly be confused if you try to explain what a DO is. So when asked about what a DO is, I say "One of the two degrees given out by medical schools. Of the 140 schools in the U.S., only 20 give out the DO degree." I don't go into manipulation or wholism unless asked specifically.
So basically, you will encounter much more ignorance (which is easily corrected) than prejudice (which is not so easily corrected). And you may even see that there is a trend among people who are prejudice... they tend live in trailers and make comments like, "Welp, my pappy done told me once that them thar DOs ain't real doctors *SPIT*" These are the kind of patients I would be more than happy to invite to leave my office. It ends up saving me money in the end because they are often uninsured and I inevitably have to expend an entire can of Lysol in order to remove their "scent" from the exam rooms.
In sum... there are a number of reasons to go into medicine... and if respect and money are your driving force, you will probably end up droping out of medical school. No amount of money or respect is worth the abuse and frustration of medical education.
- Having people envy you.
- Having people wish they were you.
- Having people "Oooo" and "Ahhh" at you.
- Having people never question your decisions or ideas.
Have you ever noticed this? If this is respect, I don't want any part of it.
As for money... are you nuts?! Same work = same pay. There is no such thing as separate payment scales for MDs and DOs. In fact, DO family docs that incorporate OMM into their practice can pull in up to 50% more income, than their MD counterparts. I worked with a doc that made an extra $500 per day just by treating people with OMM.
By the way, as a DO you won't find many people that "think less of you" compared MDs. From my experience, 99% of the patients I encounter don't know what a DO is... or what an MD is, for that matter. They only know what a "physician" is. So if I introduce myself as, "Hi, I'm an osteopathic physician" then my patients will say... "Huh?!" Likewise, if an MD introduces him/herself as "Hi, I'm an allopathic physician" then their patients will also go... "Huh?!" The public is largely ignorant of medical education in general and will frankly be confused if you try to explain what a DO is. So when asked about what a DO is, I say "One of the two degrees given out by medical schools. Of the 140 schools in the U.S., only 20 give out the DO degree." I don't go into manipulation or wholism unless asked specifically.
So basically, you will encounter much more ignorance (which is easily corrected) than prejudice (which is not so easily corrected). And you may even see that there is a trend among people who are prejudice... they tend live in trailers and make comments like, "Welp, my pappy done told me once that them thar DOs ain't real doctors *SPIT*" These are the kind of patients I would be more than happy to invite to leave my office. It ends up saving me money in the end because they are often uninsured and I inevitably have to expend an entire can of Lysol in order to remove their "scent" from the exam rooms.
In sum... there are a number of reasons to go into medicine... and if respect and money are your driving force, you will probably end up droping out of medical school. No amount of money or respect is worth the abuse and frustration of medical education.
