"Lethal dose" of propofol = 25 mg?

[Per4mer8]

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Agreed.

This is laughable. Why are the expert witnesses for the case a cardiologist and a pulm-crit care doc?

Do they consult a cardiologist for an infectious disease related criminal case too?

Do they have more credibility than an anesthesiologist for a case such as this one? I know the public is clueless as to what we do but I would think that the judicial system should at least recognize our expertise here.

I guess just because Murray is (was) a Cardiologist they wanted to get one to say "ya what he did was nuts, and not in the realm of a Cardiologists' duty" but then for that expert witness to expand his testimony and give a "what should have been done......" that doesn't exactly jive with the topic either is interesting.

I still don't understand Murray. I mean I'm just a med student that won't even be close to getting back into the black for about 10 yrs and I still can't even imagine being so blinded by the Benji's to administer Prop as a sleep aid.

 

[tehdude]

Steven Shafer, professor of anesthesiology at Columbia and editor in chief of Anesthesia and Analgesia, is scheduled to testify, too.

 

[mdage]

Who is going to be the anesthesiologist to testify for the defendant?

 

[soundmind]

17 Violations of Care
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBld_ipuO-s[/YOUTUBE]

Also, Shafer testified today that murray gave the propfol to MJ either two different ways. Bolus injections or Infusion. He said that evidence supports either ways.

If murray gave the drugs with bolus injections, then he was giving drugs to MJ while he was still unconscious. And for that reason (even though science supports he could have done that), Shafer disregarded that possibility because he simply cannot comprehend murray doing that.

So instead, what he believes is that an Infusion was used to give propofol.

Dr. Shafer also testified there is NO EVIDENCE that MJ consented to this deadly way of treatment.

 

[Per4mer8]

That dude is guilty as sin.....but even I was like good lord going thru all 17 violations and using egregious 48 times was a little much. No way a jury doesn't see that as far too egregious (lol) to ignore, Murray's done.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Who is going to be the anesthesiologist to testify for the defendant?

Fellow Columbia professor and former UT Southwestern chairman and faculty member, Paul F. White, M.D., P.H.D.

Already in contempt of court and he hasn't even testified yet.

 

[soundmind]

Anesthesiologist testifying for defense

Part 1
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DWK0lWgyo[/YOUTUBE]

Part 2
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpCElmCJSwI&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

 

[bibibi]

Obviously this was a huge dose for MJ.

Surprisingly this was a doctor who administered this medication, propofol. I'm surprised how patients can trust a NURSE (ie CRNA) with this potent medication. Propofol should be used by a properly trained physician.

This clearly shows the value and grave importance of having a board certified Anesthesiologist for any general anesthestic or even 'sedation'.

I can tell you with a 100% assurance, a board certified anesthesiologist would not have had this sort of outcome at this dose of propofol. How do I know that, we do it EVERY day.

What's the point of bringing nurses and crnas into this discussion? Propofol was administered by your fellow doctor although not an mda. Nurses administer Propofol safely every day in ICUs. Besides you can't hold one mistake against a whole profession.

 

[BLADEMDA]

What's the point of bringing nurses and crnas into this discussion? Propofol was administered by your fellow doctor although not an mda. Nurses administer Propofol safely every day in ICUs. Besides you can't hold one mistake against a whole profession.

CRNAs administer Propofol every day to thousands of patients WITHOUT any Anesthesiologist present. Their level of safety administering this agent in an outpatient setting like a Gi office, ASC, etc. appears equal to that of a Board Certified Anesthesiologist.

Do I like that fact? No. But, those are the facts.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

[bibibi]

RNs safely administer Propofol and other sedation meds in ICUs everyday. I want to see how SleepIsGood is going to find a board certified anesthesiologist to administer sedation to every patient that needs it. That person should be willing to work for half of RNs salary since RNs take care of two patients per nurse in ICUs and most of the time both patients are on Propofol.

What failed Dr. Murray was the fact that he did not have the patient on any monitoring equipment and he did not have any intubation equipment (and maybe skills) at bedside while administering a medication that is known to depress respirations.

 

[jwk]

RNs safely administer Propofol and other sedation meds in ICUs everyday. I want to see how SleepIsGood is going to find a board certified anesthesiologist to administer sedation to every patient that needs it. That person should be willing to work for half of RNs salary since RNs take care of two patients per nurse in ICUs and most of the time both patients are on Propofol.

What failed Dr. Murray was the fact that he did not have the patient on any monitoring equipment and he did not have any intubation equipment (and maybe skills) at bedside while administering a medication that is known to depress respirations.

ICU RN's give propofol via infusion to ventilated patients. In many states, it's illegal for them to do otherwise.

 

[Gern Blansten]

ICU RN's give propofol via infusion to ventilated patients. In many states, it's illegal for them to do otherwise.

You beat me to it. The fact that this RN doesn't understand the difference is further evidence that they really don't understand what they are talking about.

 

[Mman]

RNs safely administer Propofol and other sedation meds in ICUs everyday. I want to see how SleepIsGood is going to find a board certified anesthesiologist to administer sedation to every patient that needs it. That person should be willing to work for half of RNs salary since RNs take care of two patients per nurse in ICUs and most of the time both patients are on Propofol.

What failed Dr. Murray was the fact that he did not have the patient on any monitoring equipment and he did not have any intubation equipment (and maybe skills) at bedside while administering a medication that is known to depress respirations.

Most of the RNs administering propofol in the ICU would be as helpless as Dr. Murray if they were giving it to an unintubated patient.

 

[IDBasco]

🤣 @ nurses that think they know it all.

 

[bibibi]

Most of the RNs administering propofol in the ICU would be as helpless as Dr. Murray if they were giving it to an unintubated patient.

That was my point. Propofol should only be administered to intubated patients. In some cases small doses are administered to patients that are not intubated. In this cases it should only be administered by mda or crna while patient is being monitored continuously and when the intubation equipment is readily available.

 

[Gern Blansten]

That was my point. Propofol should only be administered to intubated patients. In some cases small doses are administered to patients that are not intubated. In this cases it should only be administered by mda or crna while patient is being monitored continuously and when the intubation equipment is readily available.

I hate to belabor this point, but neither Jerry Lewis or the MDA have any business administering propofol.