Let's clarify some things, shall we?

[BeachBlondie]

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Hello, fellow non-trads!

Despite embracing my non-traditional background, this is the first time I've ventured into this forum. It's good to be with my ilk 🙂

So, it's been thrown around from time to time that because we are a different kind of pre-med (i.e. one that is not coming directly out of undergrad/has life experience) that our applications are treated in a different manner.

Can anyone attest to this?

The reason I ask is because I never assumed in college that I would be a doctor, never studied, and came away with a 3.4. I'm in the Harvard Health Careers Program now, and am doing relatively well. BUT, even if I were to ace my remaining pre-req classes, my cGPA isn't going to change drastically because of the monolithic mountain of credits I already have.

What I'm asking here is will this GPA necessarily relegate me to lower-end MDs and DOs (recently heard that even with a 40+ MCAT, having a lower GPA will not take precedence over someone with a high GPA/low MCAT).

So, are we--as non-trad--given any additional consideration? Or, are we lumped with the masses?

 

[slatermd]

What I'm asking here is will this GPA necessarily relegate me to lower-end MDs and DOs (recently heard that even with a 40+ MCAT, having a lower GPA will not take precedence over someone with a high GPA/low MCAT).

So, are we--as non-trad--given any additional consideration? Or, are we lumped with the masses?

The answer is yes, and no. Initially, our numbers are thrown in with everyone else's and we are all measured against the same GPA/MCAT yardstick, without regard for other outstanding qualities. Age, EC's, and who you are as a person are considered afterward. Every school has a different initial filter, some even factor in your undergrad institution in the initial screening of your GPA (UIC does this).

I think your notion of a "lower" GPA could use a little tweaking. You went into a HHCP with a 3.4 and will come out with something better, perhaps only marginally but still. Let's call it a 3.5.

A 3.5 and a 40 MCAT will be screened differently than a 3.5 and a 28 MCAT, or a 2.9/40 (someone on sdn is applying with a 2.9/33 this cycle, we'll see what happens). I think your question is more along the lines of which is better, a 3.8/28 or a 2.9/40, and I don't know. Fortunately that doesn't seem to be a concern for your application.

If I were applying with a 3.5/40 and was screened out before serious consideration because of the 3.5, I would smugly put that school in the category, "why would I want to go to a place like that anyway?" You know, sour grapes or whatever people call that.

With regard to your circumstances, I don't think you'll be relegated to "lower-end" MD and DO programs, depending first on you MCAT score and second on what "lower-end" means to you.

The non-trad forum is a little slow, so while you're waiting for the discussion to start, check out this thread, if you haven't already:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813286

 

[BeachBlondie]

Much obliged 🙂

I was a bit long-winded; my apologies. I suppose the brass tacks I was trying to get to is what you addressed regarding low GPA/high MCAT vs. high GPA/low MCAT.

As for my part, I consider my 3.4 kind of low, but only because I recently looked at the MSAR and saw that everyone seemed to boast a 3.6 average. And, if my post-bacc is a mix of A's and B's, it will probably stagnate my cumulative.

Anyhow. Thanks for your help! I'm definitely going to look deeper into the attached thread.

 

[Quik]

From what I know anecdotally, your 3.4 and a decent MCAT score should be enough to get looked at. Past that point, it's the rest of your application and interview (along with those numbers, don't get me wrong), that will get you accepted. I wouldn't worry too much about having a GPA under average, as by definition students are accepted with scores under that mark. I think I'm playing captain obvious here, but while your scores may not be ultra-competitive, they aren't so bad that you wont get consideration given a good, comprehensively strong application.

 

[BeachBlondie]

From what I know anecdotally, your 3.4 and a decent MCAT score should be enough to get looked at. Past that point, it's the rest of your application and interview (along with those numbers, don't get me wrong), that will get you accepted. I wouldn't worry too much about having a GPA under average, as by definition students are accepted with scores under that mark. I think I'm playing captain obvious here, but while your scores may not be ultra-competitive, they aren't so bad that you wont get consideration given a good, comprehensively strong application.

That's encouraging 🙂

I have a pretty kickass background (college athlete, 40 hour/week published researcher, volunteer work, and lots of leadership) But, my worry is actually MAKING it to the point of a human being looking into the remainder of my application. I'm barely at a 3.4, so I suppose there's a chance I could drop back to a 3.3 if I had a semester of B's or something. Not sure.

Anyhow, after being immersed in the pre-allo forum, I suppose it's easy to feel sort of lost in their impeccable stats. Especially when I hear that some of them didn't get in anywhere.... Yeesh.

Thanks! 🙂

 

[EdLongshanks]

That's encouraging 🙂

I have a pretty kickass background (college athlete, 40 hour/week published researcher, volunteer work, and lots of leadership) But, my worry is actually MAKING it to the point of a human being looking into the remainder of my application. I'm barely at a 3.4, so I suppose there's a chance I could drop back to a 3.3 if I had a semester of B's or something. Not sure.

Anyhow, after being immersed in the pre-allo forum, I suppose it's easy to feel sort of lost in their impeccable stats. Especially when I hear that some of them didn't get in anywhere.... Yeesh.

Thanks! 🙂

I know the formula at Mayo Clinic. They require GPA*10 + MCAT to be greater than 60. so a 3.0 and 30 gets you looked at there.

BTW, you should definitely apply there. They like applications like yours. They want leadership and charitable work.

People sometimes fall into the number's ***** games, despite the fact that the adcoms repeatedly tell us that it doesn't work that way.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I don't know how true this is, but my friend said he spoke with an admissions rep in the UC system and was told that non-trads are put together in a different pile. Speaking myself to a former ADCOM, he told me non-trads are the preferred applicants.

 

[BeachBlondie]

Interesting....

Just knowing what I do about the students in my program currently, non-trads always have really cool stories to tell/things they've endured. Might make sense that they get a bit of a deeper look.

Thanks for the input, everyone! SDN is a great tool. But, I think that most of us can agree that it skews perception a bit with respect to the applicant pool and acceptance rates.

 

[ThreadStalker]

That's encouraging 🙂

I have a pretty kickass background (college athlete, 40 hour/week published researcher, volunteer work, and lots of leadership) But, my worry is actually MAKING it to the point of a human being looking into the remainder of my application. I'm barely at a 3.4, so I suppose there's a chance I could drop back to a 3.3 if I had a semester of B's or something. Not sure.

Anyhow, after being immersed in the pre-allo forum, I suppose it's easy to feel sort of lost in their impeccable stats. Especially when I hear that some of them didn't get in anywhere.... Yeesh.

Thanks! 🙂

It's easy to forget that there is a significant self-selection bias in the people posting on SDN. Those with really great stats will promote them much more often than those with average, or even just less-great, stats. So you get the impression that the applicant pool here is much more competitive than it really is.

As you point out, many of these students don't get in and then many people worry "Wow, if their stats didn't get them in, then how on earth will mine?" It seems like many posters here are stuck thinking "high MCAT + high GPA + fill-in-the-blank volunteering = great applicant", and when that doesn't work all the time they're left at a loss to explain. Conversations on SDN focus far, far too much on these metrics. The adcoms I've spoken to have piles and piles of apps from students who make the cut for basic stats. Once you've made the cut, you've made the cut, and it's everything else that you've done that will set you apart in the application process (not to mention throughout school and professional life).

This is where being non-trad can help. Most of my experience is from my state school, and the adcoms there said they judge applicants by these metrics: Knowledge of Profession, Maturity, Professionalism, Intellectual Capacity, Communication Skills, Willingness to learn, Ability to work with and learn from people who are different from them. As a non-trad, you're more likely to have these traits and skills than the traditional applicants, so play those up in your applications and interviews.

Best of luck!

 

[phltz]

That's encouraging 🙂

I have a pretty kickass background (college athlete, 40 hour/week published researcher, volunteer work, and lots of leadership) But, my worry is actually MAKING it to the point of a human being looking into the remainder of my application. I'm barely at a 3.4, so I suppose there's a chance I could drop back to a 3.3 if I had a semester of B's or something. Not sure.

Anyhow, after being immersed in the pre-allo forum, I suppose it's easy to feel sort of lost in their impeccable stats. Especially when I hear that some of them didn't get in anywhere.... Yeesh.

Thanks! 🙂

A 3.4 may put you below the listed median at most schools according to the MSAR, but it ought to put you above the 10% mark at almost all of them. Are you going to get into med school on the strength of your 3.4? Nope. Is it going to keep you out? Probably not.

I applied with a cumulative GPA of just over 3.2 this cycle, a good MCAT, and a whole heap of other good experiences. I've done fairly well, all considered. I didn't get an interview everywhere. Did some of those schools reject me before an actual human ever laid eyes on my application? Maybe. But plenty of other schools did read my application, which is what counts.

 

[BeachBlondie]

Much love to my non-traditional kin.

Thanks for all of the advice, experiences, and words of encouragement. Congratulations to everyone that made it, and good luck to those of you applying in a few weeks 😀