Let's talk about: Overseas schools

[meadow36]

Okay I need some more info about these schools, particularly RVC, Glasgow, and Edinburgh. I am very nervous about applying to these programs ~ will it be so much culture shock that I won't do well? Are the classes / styles of teaching similar to US colleges? Will I be completely lost? Is it a lot more expensive then going to an out of state school in the U.S.? Do they all require five years or do they let you do four if you already have a B.S.? Is the education /skills that you learn the same as what you would learn in the U.S.? Is the style of medicine so different that I'm going to have trouble applying it to practice in the U.S.?

Forgot to add: What about the requirements to get in? Are they generally harder / easier then U.S. schools to get into? Can I bring my pets?

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[jkq202]

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[jkq202]

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[meadow36]

Wow that's some great information, thanks for taking the time to post!! Yes RVC is my top choice for overseas also. I have travelled to Europe before but I've never lived abroad so I'm not sure how I'll take it. I'm a little apprehensive about it.

Can you apply for federal loans if you go to an overseas school?

Would you happen to know if RVC has a supplemental application?

 

[jkq202]

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[eatpinkpenguins]

Hey Everyone!

I graduated from undergrad in 2007 as a history major and am now in a post-bacc program finishing up my pre-reqs and applying to vet schools. I'm also looking at international schools, particularly Melbourne and Massey and was wondering if anyone knows anyone who went there. I'm worried that about the age difference, since most students in Australia/NZ/UK start around 19. Also, I know they are technically bachelors programs, but are these equivalent to a DVM in the US? Thanks!!

 

[freyamaxine]

Hi eatpinkpenguins.

I'm a first year vet student at Melbourne uni. The oldest student in our class is I think around 45. We have a few students who are then around the 24-30 (I would guess maybe 20 or 30) range and then mostly around the 19-23 age range.

Although some students get in straight from first year uni there is a large percentage of people who have done 2 years or have Bachelors.

If you got a degree from Melbourne you would take the NAVLE like a North American graduate. You are also able to practice in the UK.

Hope that helped.

 

[Pandacinny]

Freyamaxine, can you tell us a little more about the program at Massey? I'm thinking of applying there this year and would definitely like more firsthand information on things like what classes are like, what the teaching style is and etc.

Thanks!

 

[freyamaxine]

I don't know anything about Massey uni.

I have never even been to New Zealand

But I am happy to answer questions about Melbourne uni.

 

[laurafinn]

HI'm also looking at international schools, particularly Melbourne and Massey and was wondering if anyone knows anyone who went there. I'm worried that about the age difference, since most students in Australia/NZ/UK start around 19. Also, I know they are technically bachelors programs, but are these equivalent to a DVM in the US?

I go to Massey now. I am an older student - in my thirties. There are at least 5 of us thirtysomethings in my class, and then another 10-20 people in their mid- to late-20's. I don't think age is a problem. Having said that, there is a bunch of undergraduate silliness that goes on, binge-drinking and couch-burning and the like, but you can keep your distance.

You graduate with a BVSc, which is equivalent to a DVM in the US. You can be called Dr. if you want, you just can't put the letters DVM after your name.

All the best,

Laura

 

[purplebunnie]

Wow that's some great information, thanks for taking the time to post!! Yes RVC is my top choice for overseas also. I have travelled to Europe before but I've never lived abroad so I'm not sure how I'll take it. I'm a little apprehensive about it.

Can you apply for federal loans if you go to an overseas school?

Would you happen to know if RVC has a supplemental application?

RVC does not have a supplemental. You also do not need to submit GRE scores.

You need to complete the 5 year program regardless of your background. To the tune of about 67000 American a year including cost of living. They discourage you from bringing pets. It's very difficult to find affordable housing to begin with and even more so with pets.

In my interview they told me that they had just introduced a new curriculum style where first they cycle through the body systems with normal, and then repeat with abnormal. The learning is mostly text-based and does have an agricultural component. US students spend the first year adjusting to culture shock, while UK students adjust to not having everything done for them. By year two, everyone is on the same keel.

They only require about 80 hours of veterinary animal experience.

I'll post if I remember anything else.

 

[Normed]

Hey guys, I'm a current International student at the RVC... feel free to ask me any questions!

 

[laurafinn]

Freyamaxine, can you tell us a little more about the program at Massey? I'm thinking of applying there this year and would definitely like more firsthand information on things like what classes are like, what the teaching style is and etc.

Thanks!

I'll bite

First, here are a few references to get anyone interested in Massey started:

• Massey Vet School
• Massey vet students association - check the BVSc tab for class schedules and syllabi for each year

There are some really good lecturers, and there are some lecturers who simply read off their powerpoints. I have a feeling this is similar to most vet schools. Lecturers are generally very approachable and happy to help. Your grades tend to be based on end-of-the-term essay tests, especially in the first two years. There are labs associated with most classes. There is one problem-based learning class, the rest are traditional. You are generally not stuck in one classroom all day, they move you around campus a bit, especially in the first two years, which is nice. You get a little bit of hands on animal handling the first semester, and first do vetty stuff like practice physical exams the second semester of second year, and do really vetty stuff like anesthetize animals your third year.

Massey is not a rich, research powerhouse. The emphasis is on teaching people to be vets. If you feel unfulfilled when not surrounded by the latest toys, this program is probably not for you. The good thing about Massey is that there are not tons of residents and interns competing with vet students for procedures or for access to boarded specialists. Also, facilities and clients are probably closer to those in the average US veterinary practice vs. those at US teaching hospitals.

Um, what else can I say? Palmerston North can be kinda boring in a suburban way, but has most everything you need. It's easy to travel throughout New Zealand, and, to a lesser extent, Australia. The rest of the world is very far away! New Zealand is much more Americanized than I had expected: it seems more akin to Canada than the UK, if that makes any sense. There is a bit of anti-American, anti-foreigner sentiment -- and stronger anti-Asian sentiment, which is something to be aware of if you are Asian-American -- in the culture at large. On a face-to-face basis, people will generally give you a chance, though.

You don't necessarily need a car to live here, although most people do have one by second year. Buses to Massey and around town are free. It's a pretty easy town to bicycle in, mostly flat. Weather is a slightly colder version of the Pacific Northwest.

OK, I'll stop, now that I've written a book

HTH,

Laura

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

You graduate with a BVSc, which is equivalent to a DVM in the US. You can be called Dr. if you want, you just can't put the letters DVM after your name.

Exactly, that would be like getting a VMD from Penn and wanting to change it to DVM. It doesn't matter because they are equivalent degrees. (BVSc = BVS = BMVS = DVM = = VMD)

Dr. John Smith, BVS = Dr. John Smith, DVM


By the way.. The dean of Sydney's vet school was the dean of Cambridge's vet school before he moved to USyd. Sydney's vet school is accredited in US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Ireland, EU, Asia (pretty much everywhere). You can't say that for most of the US schools.

 

[Nexx]

I'm over here at Murdoch University in Perth, the 'most isolated city on Earth' -- It really isn't that bad. I made the jump from Albany, NY --> Gainesville, FL --> Perth

Firstly, applying to Murdoch is done on a rolling basis (4 application cycles/year with 8 or so internationals taken per round whee!) and best of all, the application is free. You are required to do five years (technically 6 since you need to have a year of college under your belt now) but you can gain exemptions from some courses with a little bit of work and planning ahead (I have friends who got exempted from Biochemistry, Toxicology, and Nutrition). Tuition per year is $34,000AUD or $170,000AUD for the program. It is a fixed tuition rate for the first 3 years (but I hear it can rise slightly in the last two of the program). For comparison last I knew the debt load for Western University compared to Murdoch was about equal once you added living expenses into the loans.

The atmosphere around town is very relaxed and social. I'm very happy I made the jump across the pond. Living here can be a bit expensive compared to Florida (at least when I left, before inflation and gas pricing jumped), but it isn't too bad. Some stuff is ridiculously cheap, other stuff is expensive.

Classes here have been easy to get used to, very similar in format to lectures in schools in the US. What is different is their grading. You only need a 50% to pass and an 80% and up is an "A" (or HD/High Distinction here). You would however have to maintain a 2.1 GPA to maintain financial aid (US Stafford Loans + Grad Plus Loans) otherwise you need to secure private loans instead. Back to the grades... It can be hard to achieve an A over here... Basically instead of starting off with a 100% and marking you down, you start with a 0% and get marked up. I've received papers back that say "outstanding effort" and only received an 87% on it, with no comments as to what could have been done to get a higher mark. However once you get over the "Must get 90% or more on my work" feeling you realize that you still kicked ass on the paper and just to deal with it.

The skill sets you learn at any AVMA accredited school (probably most vet schools as well) are going to be roughly the same otherwise there would be no point in accreditation since they are meant to form a standard. What you will find is that some medicines and diseases are not going to be applicable to working back in the US, then again you just might not end up back in the US but if you choose to go back, the transition should be relatively simple.

To get into Murdoch at least, the requirements aren't any 'easier' per se. They have different criteria to look at than do US schools. Murdoch looks at your age (mature-aged students seem to be looked upon better), experience, previous grades, letter of intent, recommendations. There is no GRE to worry about either. For a point of reference, I was kicked from Univ of FL with a dismal GPA (something like a 0.8). I took colleges at the local Community college and graduated with my AA ending with total college cumulative GPA of 2.9 I think (meaning it was inclusive of my crap UF GPA). With "core classes' that I took at the community college I earned the following Bio 1 - A, Bio 2 B+, Chem 1 - B+, Stats - C, Math - B, all while working full time and taking classes full time. I am also about 90% complete with a Bachelors in Business Management with a specialisation in Healthcare management to which I have a 3.55 GPA. I've also been working in the veterinary field for 12 years now in small animal and specialty practice. I also have volunteer hours in conservation medicine with fruit bats and marine mammals. Basically I am fairly sure that UF never would have given me so much as a glance and it would have taken a couple application cycles to get me into a US school due to my early school history. As a bonus for me anyhow, I was able to shave two years of pre-reqs for the US schools since Murdoch did not require them. Hell I probably didn't have to take the courses I did but it did show that I can succeed in University.

Oh, and getting your dog to Australia is a bit expensive. One dog/pet can range anywhere from $2k-$5k once it is all said and done. If you do everything correctly they only have to spend one month in quarantine over here. As a side note, please at all costs AVOID International Pet Transport aka IPTLAX.com. They ended botching the import of my roomates 3 dogs such that they would either be in quarantine for 5 months, or stay in the US for 4 months longer than their owner. Short version: They provided no assistance and did not ask for required tests to be performed. 1 month before leaving this was noticed and they asked for more money to get things processed quicker and informed them of increased quarantine time. Because nothing had actually been done on their behalf they requested all $8k to be refunded to them. At this point no money has been returned as of yet, 6 months later and it is most likely going to court, but I digress.

 

[jkq202]

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[jkq202]

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[lazyjayn]

also, I think Massey's program price is set at the year you enter. Laura would know for sure, of course.

but 40k-ish/yr isn't that far off what you expect from the states.
and when you consider that you spend 4.5 to 5 years living in a different country, it's really worth it.

The 'change rate is nasty, tho... when i first took off for NZ the rate was something like .53 US per NZ dollar. Now it's closer to .75 US per. Which makes a bit of a difference.

Don't let that be taken as a suggestion that you talk to the NZ people. I need to get back in when I can afford to go back, after all. But the indian food almost makes up for the lack of a decent burrito.

Which takes me to the most important point of going overseas for vet school.

Do you like Mexican food? It doesn't exist in NZ. I'm told you can get it in Melbourne. If you ask nice. NZ, however, not happening (nb- arizona, the restaurant at the intercontinental in welly, serves kiwi-style mexican food). Or the UK. If you like bland food, and you can afford to ship yourself yummy snacks from home, it's for you. But even the most devoted traveller will be craving doritos and decent salsa after 6 months or so. So if you do go that route, ship it to yourself. Heck, even the Foreign service will ship you comfort food.

Trust me. When you look at that "I owe" statement, you'll want something to connect you to home. Maybe it's kraft mac and cheese. Maybe it's fritos. Maybe it's a call home. And in my experience, family back home want to hear about how cool it is, not how you can't find something, and you want to come home.

still drunk.

-j.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

The thing about titles....DVM, VMD, BVSc, whatever...if I earned my vet degree abroad and earned the BVSc, which I understand is an equivalent degree does anyone think there might be bias against me from pet/animal owners/clients?

I highly doubt it. I've never heard of anything like that before. If you are in doubt.. why don't you contact someone who currently practices in the US with an Australian degree and ask them if it has ever affected their practice.

http://www.russellvilleanimalclinic.com/inside/vets/vets.html

You might actually find having trained in Australia might actually help your practice. Most people highly regard Australians and Australian training. Esp in regard to animal training and vet... I mean.. come on.. everone loved the croc hunter.

 

[purplebunnie]

"You need to complete the 5 year program regardless of your background. To the tune of about 67000 American a year including cost of living. They discourage you from bringing pets. It's very difficult to find affordable housing to begin with and even more so with pets." -quoted from someone above in a post

^ This is wrong!

Right from their website:

Four Year Accelerated Programme

• The 4-year accelerated BVetMed programme is open to graduates who already hold or expect to obtain in the current year, a degree with at least an Upper Second (2:1) Class Honours in a Biological Science discipline. Suitable disciplines include (but are not limited to) Animal Science, Biochemistry, Biological Sciences, Bioveterinary Science, Physiology, Veterinary Sciences, and Zoology.
• Successful candidates will be admitted into a transition year and, subject to satisfactory progress, will then enter the Third Year of the standard 5-year BVetMed course.

The same type of deal goes for the 2 schools accredited in Scotland. Basically if you already have some sort of bio degree with good grades, you can enter the accelerated program.

Ah, see I asked about that in my interview, since I was a path major in the honors program and all. They told me that I more than likely wouldn't qualify, even though I had already taken some of my sciences on a graduate level.

Dunno.

 

[judyrvc]

I graduated from the RVC in 2005 and coming from NYC, it wasn't too much of a culture shock. It was definitely a different experience going to vet school with 18 year olds- it was their first college experience/time away from home so you have to consider what you were like at that age. It definitely led to the Americans starting off as a clique. However, since they opened housing right next to the Camden campus and integrated the overseas students into it, I think it has become a lot better.

Cost of education at the time I went was fairly comparable to being at an out of state vet school but them you had to add in flying home 3x a year and all the weekend trips I took (although I don't think that really counts ). With the dollar so weak now, I think the cost is dramatically increased. No loans were available through the UK. In fact, we even lost our Stafford loans for 3 of the 5 years- meaning that all the loans were private with high interest rates. I had most of my loans through Citibank, AES, etc. They weren't hard to get at all.

The examination system in the UK is far different from the US. We would have a few small quizzes throughout the year and some paper to do but they would only count for a total of 15-20% of the overall grade for the year. 80%+ of your grade was based on the final exam at the end of the year. Usually a 3-4 day test with multiple choice, short answer, long answer, possible oral exam, etc. NOT fun at all. And you only get one grade for the year. And I can tell you that in my first year, ONE person got an A and I think 14 people got Bs. We were warned to expect those Cs and Ds and we certainly got them!

I was worried about coming back to the US when I was done in case I hadn't learned some of the same things, etc. But it was fine. I started my internship days after graduation and the only things I really had to learn were the American names for some of the medications... oh and how to spay a cat midline (not flank).

Feel free to ask me any questions and I'll be happy to share my experience with you!

 

[Pandacinny]

I don't know anything about Massey uni.

I have never even been to New Zealand

But I am happy to answer questions about Melbourne uni.

Sorry, Freya, I got a bit confused. I've had a lot of crazy things going on lately, so my reading comprehension is pretty low