Letter of Intent?

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ilovemed1

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It seems like applicants tell their number #1 theyre ranking them high, how does one go about doing this? email? letter to the PD? letter to the chiefs? what about telling the programs that are in your top 5?

I was pretty unlucky with prelim interviews (only getting a few of them)..whats the best way of telling them you wanna go there?
 
Can you tell each program in your top 5 that you will be ranking them high. And maybe tell the one program you're ranking #1 that they're #1?
 
What do you do with all the programs that tell you "Hey, keep in touch. Let us know in February if you want to come here so we can rank you high." ? I don't mean to complain, but I am couples matching. If we rank our top 3 and they are really competitive, we don't know how it will turn out. And if I don't tell the "lower" tier programs that I am ranking them high, they assume that I am only interested in going to a top tier program and rank me low (for whatever misunderstanding of the match algorithm they have).
 
I am also having a very difficult time with this letter on intent deal. I have like 5 places I would be extremely happy matching with.

Maybe I could say

"you are my number one ranked categorical", and "you are my number one ranked advanced program"?

Also, like the poster above said.. seems like a lot of the "back up" places only rank people who are contacting them letting them know they are ranking them #1.
 
I agree with what everyone's saying above -- if not #1 maybe just don't say anything but do try and keep in touch I guess..

Do ppl tell their prelims? When is the best time to let programs know and who do you direct your letter to?
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
I am also having a very difficult time with this letter on intent deal. I have like 5 places I would be extremely happy matching with.

Maybe I could say

"you are my number one ranked categorical", and "you are my number one ranked advanced program"?

Also, like the poster above said.. seems like a lot of the "back up" places only rank people who are contacting them letting them know they are ranking them #1.
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Again, we aren't stupid. All of these games have actually been written up in JACR.

Grimm, Lars J. et al.
Journal of the American College of Radiology , Volume 12 , Issue 6 , 622 - 623
 
DrBowtie said:
Again, we aren't stupid. All of these games have actually been written up in JACR.

Grimm, Lars J. et al.
Journal of the American College of Radiology , Volume 12 , Issue 6 , 622 - 623
Click to expand...
Wow, that is literally what we are discussing. Well you have to pay for the article and I canT read past page 1. So what are the conclusions....
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
Wow, that is literally what we are discussing. Well you have to pay for the article and I canT read past page 1. So what are the conclusions....
Click to expand...

Do you attend a medical school that has a library with access to Science Direct? Are you a medical student who has free membership to ACR? Many ways to get the article for free.
 
Opinions of the program directors at Duke (current), Michigan (current), and Stanford (former).
postinterview communications are also important, as they cause up to one-third of applicants to change their rank order 6, 7 and 8, and unpublished data collected at our institution showed that 66% of program directors considered postinterview communications when preparing their rank lists.
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Although many program directors simply dismiss applicant statements of intent, we instead suggest that less savvy program directors simply learn the language of obfuscation [5]. To help, we offer this translation guide. All quotations listed are real-world postinterview communications from applicants, and all translations represent the densely jaded views of experienced, and slightly cynical, program directors.

Quotation: “You are the ideal program for me.”

Translation: You are an ideal program for me. Or at least you’re good enough. Please rank me highly in case I don’t get my top choice.

Quotation: “I can’t overstate what an amazing program you have and how perfectly it fits my needs.”

Translation: Obviously, I can overstate my opinion of your program. In fact, I just did, hopefully to my advantage.

Quotation: “I am ranking you in my top 2.”

Translation: You are number 2 on my rank list. If you were number 1, I would have said that you were number 1.

Quotation: “I am ranking you in my top 3.”

Translation: I could get more specific, but I’m not going to.

Quotation: “You are at the top of my list.”

Translation: If you consider that my original list theoretically included every radiology residency program in the country, then certainly the “top” could include 10 to 15 programs. If even 1 program interprets this as a number 1 ranking, I’m ahead of the game.

Quotation: “You are the tippy top of my list.”

Translation: My advisor warned me that everyone tells programs they’re at the top of their list, so I’ll try to take it a step further and hope you will interpret “tippy top” as being even more exclusive. But I’m not ranking you first. At the very least, please appreciate the linguistic acrobatics I am capable of in trying to convince you that I am ranking you number 1.

Quotation: “I have been telling everyone that I’m ranking you #1!”

Translation: See what I’ve done here? I’m not telling you I’m ranking you number 1, so I’m not misrepresenting anything. I’ve told you that I have been telling everyone that I’m ranking you number 1, which is tough to verify, and may even be true. Plus, I included an exclamation point at the end for added emphasis!! But I have no intention of ranking you number 1.
Click to expand...
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
Wow, that is literally what we are discussing. Well you have to pay for the article and I canT read past page 1. So what are the conclusions....
Click to expand...
Conclusion is mocking medical students who try to get cute playing word games. But apparently some programs do take post interview communication seriously.
 
I'm glad there is an article that mocks medical students for playing the game that we have no idea how to play.
 
Why dont you just order professional letter of intent? There are variety of services who provide this online and sometimes for free
like radiography personal statement writing service
Guys, this is not a promotion, just in case) I just decided to share useful website with people. Professional assistance is always better then writing something not clear.
 
My PD doesn't care at all if you're "ranking us highly." What the hell does that mean? She only cares if you absolutely, 100% want to come here. If that's the case, and you can articulate why in a concise email (especially if you're not from the area - Hello, I'm ranking you #1 because my SO works in *insert field here* and currently lives/works in *city*. I'm ranking *program* number 1 because of this. Thanks, tco), that will definitely be taken into consideration.
 
tco said:
My PD doesn't care at all if you're "ranking us highly." What the hell does that mean? She only cares if you absolutely, 100% want to come here. If that's the case, and you can articulate why in a concise email (especially if you're not from the area - Hello, I'm ranking you #1 because my SO works in *insert field here* and currently lives/works in *city*. I'm ranking *program* number 1 because of this. Thanks, tco), that will definitely be taken into consideration.
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Yeah, but ranking the program #2 also means I want to go there. Ranking it #3 also means I want to go there. Most, after some reflection, will be happy wherever they match because it wasn't the next program down and it wasn't going unmatched.
 
Honestly, why PD's wouldn't just rank based on pure assessment of applicant quality boggles my mind. Why is it such a big deal that they had to go down to #XXX to fill their class? None of the subsequent years' applicants get to find out those numbers anyway. No one in their right mind with 200k in school debt spends hundreds of dollars to visit a program unless they were really interested in going there
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
Honestly, why PD's wouldn't just rank based on pure assessment of applicant quality boggles my mind. Why is it such a big deal that they had to go down to #XXX to fill their class? None of the subsequent years' applicants get to find out those numbers anyway. No one in their right mind with 200k in school debt spends hundreds of dollars to visit a program unless they were really interested in going there
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But then they wouldn't be able to get off to how prestigious/desirable their program is. Gotta have something to make themselves feel important.
 
Went back and read that article. It's embarrassing.

Sure 4th year medical students send ambiguous correspondence, but it makes sense: They're trying to secure a spot (not a guarantee back when rads was competitive). They're the ones who are 200+k in debt. They're the ones who could have their families, relationships, career prospects uprooted by the results of the match. With that much at stake, I can understand why students feel pressure to communicate their interests without being committal in their messages.

Why program directors, who are already secure in positions of power and whose lives won't be changed much if they match candidate 25 versus 45, would take the time out of their day to write this, much less openly publish something mocking past applicants is beyond me.
 
tco said:
My PD doesn't care at all if you're "ranking us highly." What the hell does that mean? She only cares if you absolutely, 100% want to come here. If that's the case, and you can articulate why in a concise email (especially if you're not from the area - Hello, I'm ranking you #1 because my SO works in *insert field here* and currently lives/works in *city*. I'm ranking *program* number 1 because of this. Thanks, tco), that will definitely be taken into consideration.
Click to expand...

Is that something you'd recommend bringing up in the interview or waiting for after as like a bump basically
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
But then they wouldn't be able to get off to how prestigious/desirable their program is. Gotta have something to make themselves feel important.
Click to expand...

What a turn off. Remember that the NRMP forbids programs from requiring students to reveal where they are applying and from asking how they are ranking programs; programs are allowed to ask where else you applied though. One interviewer asked me how my couples match partner is planning to rank their institution. One interviewer asked me, after interviewing for several months, "who has risen to the top." One chief resident said, I'm not sure if they [PD] told you, but if you're really interested in this program, do let us know; it helps. One resident said, if you want to come here, tell them that; it'll bump you like 10 spots. These are top 20 programs. You'd think they'd be better than that.
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
What a turn off. Remember that the NRMP forbids programs from requiring students to reveal where they are applying and from asking how they are ranking programs; programs are allowed to ask where else you applied though. One interviewer asked me how my couples match partner is planning to rank their institution. One interviewer asked me, after interviewing for several months, "who has risen to the top." One chief resident said, I'm not sure if they [PD] told you, but if you're really interested in this program, do let us know; it helps. One resident said, if you want to come here, tell them that; it'll bump you like 10 spots. These are top 20 programs. You'd think they'd be better than that.
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Had prelim interview explicitly ask where I was ranking the associated radiology program. That was fun.
 
I emailed a top 5 program telling them they were in my top 3 and possibly top 2, but that I did not have a rank order yet. I might rank them anywhere from 1-3, but it doesn't mean they are number 2 or 3 on my list. I feel I am going to switch up my top 3 until a week or so before the rank list deadline. My integrity is very important and I won't commit until I am absolutely sure.
 
why does it have to be a negative? how do you know it's about some prestige stuff of " we matched at X spot on list"

it could just be they actually want people who want to be there. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say the 30th and 35th candidates on their list aren't gonna be much different. so they'd probably rather take a 35th candidate who is interested than a 30th who really isn't. so maybe they bump you 10 spots up and 35 becomes 25. I don't see how that's wrong. everyone wants to be wanted. programs and applicants.

hard to have this conversation without getting into algorithm details. but I always wondered how the algorithms reconciled say a situation where program ranks student a) 20 and student b 30th
meanwhile student a ranks the program 3rd and student b ranks the program 1st

who is more likely to match there? everyone always says it in favor of student but I've never really seen any explanation of how that works to be able to say that.
 
PL198 said:
why does it have to be a negative? how do you know it's about some prestige stuff of " we matched at X spot on list"

it could just be they actually want people who want to be there. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say the 30th and 35th candidates on their list aren't gonna be much different. so they'd probably rather take a 35th candidate who is interested than a 30th who really isn't. so maybe they bump you 10 spots up and 35 becomes 25. I don't see how that's wrong. everyone wants to be wanted. programs and applicants.

hard to have this conversation without getting into algorithm details. but I always wondered how the algorithms reconciled say a situation where program ranks student a) 20 and student b 30th
meanwhile student a ranks the program 3rd and student b ranks the program 1st

who is more likely to match there? everyone always says it in favor of student but I've never really seen any explanation of how that works to be able to say that.
Click to expand...

Go read the NRMP website. The match algorithm is very cleared explained. In your hypothetical situation, student a will bump student b out of the program's match list if he/she did not match at his/her first or second ranked programs.

If you understand the algorithm, maybe it will be more clear that there is no reason other than vanity that programs would want to be able to manipulate how deep down on their rank list they have to go to fill the class.

Also the argument that programs prefer applicants who "really want to go there" assumes that applicants fully understand what they are getting into. This is likely not true. Unless a program is your home program, or you have a close friend who is a resident at the program, it is very hard to get a good feel of exactly what your life is going to be like at any given program based on a 6-8 hour visit.
 
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PL198 said:
why does it have to be a negative? how do you know it's about some prestige stuff of " we matched at X spot on list"

it could just be they actually want people who want to be there. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say the 30th and 35th candidates on their list aren't gonna be much different. so they'd probably rather take a 35th candidate who is interested than a 30th who really isn't. so maybe they bump you 10 spots up and 35 becomes 25. I don't see how that's wrong. everyone wants to be wanted. programs and applicants.

hard to have this conversation without getting into algorithm details. but I always wondered how the algorithms reconciled say a situation where program ranks student a) 20 and student b 30th
meanwhile student a ranks the program 3rd and student b ranks the program 1st

who is more likely to match there? everyone always says it in favor of student but I've never really seen any explanation of how that works to be able to say that.
Click to expand...

The prestige thing was explained to me by my advisor and home PD (separate people) who cited specific programs as examples of PDs who like to brag about how high they matched. (or low, you get my point). I can see PDs being swayed by happiness if it's for a legitimate reason - like family, SO, etc, but I don't see them being swayed too much by the whole your program gave me the most fuzzies argument. At the end of the day it's a hiring decision.

Maybe I'm just too cynical at this point and hope I'm wrong. Good luck to all.
 
I would tell your #1 program they are #1 if you wish, and don't do anything beyond that. It is very likely these letters do very little at most programs (for reasons above as well as others), and you would only be harming yourself by letting programs know you are not their #1.
 
Wonder if there are people that tell multiple programs they are their number 1 just to get a boost maybe.

Seems like a bad idea, but something tells me there are a handful that do.
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
Wonder if there are people that tell multiple programs they are their number 1 just to get a boost maybe.

Seems like a bad idea, but something tells me there are a handful that do.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't doubt other people do it. Sure you'll burn bridges, but unless those bridges you burn are at programs in the same region where you match, or somewhere you'd like to go for fellowship, it seems like a measured risk.
 
What's the worst case scenario for sending multiple?

I'm not going to do it either, but it seems there's not much in the form of repercussions to stop anyone.
 
Radiologyreviews2015 said:
What's the worst case scenario for sending multiple?

I'm not going to do it either, but it seems there's not much in the form of repercussions to stop anyone.
Click to expand...
Worst case scenario is your home program hates you, your school is blacklisted from the program you lied to and your program you do match to gets notified that you are a liar.

The farther you go on, the smaller the world gets and it's scary how connected people are.
 
I was at an interview where the interviewer (speaking generally) spoke about the dangers of burning bridges within radiology. I don't think I said anything to give him the impression that I would (the program isn't going to be at/near the top of my list), but reading this makes me question if someone from my school previously burned them.
 
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