LGBT students: are you out on your applications?

[alpharez]

---

Members don't see this ad.

After reading this thread I feel like I'm being very liberal in throwing out my sexual identity everywhere in my application. I never really thought about how it would be perceived. But my sexual identity is such a part of me and who I want to be in the future that I don't hesitate to talk about it. I talk about it just as much as I do my URM and disadvantaged status.

If schools don't like it then that is not a school for me.

 

[qtpai]

Plenty of people live with tremendous disadvantages and cannot put them to use in their medical school applications.

Some people are short and so ugly that it is difficult to look at them--and study after study shows that such people are at a substantial disadvantage professionally. Surely this may have the potential of making such people more empathetic. But good luck writing that on a medical school application.

Others might have anxiety disorders or have dealt with chronic abuse and trauma as children. Such difficulties would most certainly open such people to a huge disadvantage in life, in general, and cause them great psychological distress on their way to adulthood. This would almost certainly make them more empathetic. Even if one grows from this, but good luck touching that third rail on medical school applications.

Others might be tremendously fat, and not be particularly in control of this--having been taught bad habits by their parents, as well as being genetically loaded for obese. Yet, this too would probably count as a significant strike during medical school applications--and all of life. It, too, would be likely to make such people more empathetic. All of these things, if properly handled, could make people better doctors, but it would probably be a bad idea to write about it on personal statements.

Why should such a deviation from the norm, not in control of the applicant, be penalized, while deviations such as rejection heteronormativity be rewarded? The answer: medical school applications have a strong sociopolitical dimension and always have and always will.

What sociopolitical dimensions career progression within the professions takes depends largely on social forces only arbitrarily related to any objective and rational sense of justice. These dimensions follow the social trends of historically contextual power struggles, rather than any rationally consistent moral doctrine.

LGBT is on the ascendency in this society, so it will be better represented in medical school applications. Others who have had a hard time who aren't necessarily URM or LGBT will be at a disadvantage, not because medical school admissions are justly or rightly conducted, but because they haven't been sufficiently politically represented and thus bear a persisting invisible stigma.

It may be the case that LGBT might make better doctors, but they aren't privileged because it is right. Their privilege is largely of convention--just as the URM who comes from a multimillion dollar family is privileged by convention.

 

[SunsFun]

Plenty of people live with tremendous disadvantages and cannot put them to use in their medical school applications.

Some people are short and so ugly that it is difficult to look at them--and study after study shows that such people are at a substantial disadvantage professionally. Surely this may have the potential of making such people more empathetic. But good luck writing that on a medical school application.

Others might have anxiety disorders or have dealt with chronic abuse and trauma as children. Such difficulties would most certainly open such people to a huge disadvantage in life, in general, and cause them great psychological distress on their way to adulthood. This would almost certainly make them more empathetic. Even if one grows from this, but good luck touching that third rail on medical school applications.

Others might be tremendously fat, and not be particularly in control of this--having been taught bad habits by their parents, as well as being genetically loaded for obese. Yet, this too would probably count as a significant strike during medical school applications--and all of life. It, too, would be likely to make such people more empathetic. All of these things, if properly handled, could make people better doctors, but it would probably be a bad idea to write about it on personal statements.

Why should such a deviation from the norm, not in control of the applicant, be penalized, while deviations such as rejection heteronormativity be rewarded? The answer: medical school applications have a strong sociopolitical dimension and always have and always will.

What sociopolitical dimensions career progression within the professions takes depends largely on social forces only arbitrarily related to any objective and rational sense of justice. These dimensions follow the social trends of historically contextual power struggles, rather than any rationally consistent moral doctrine.

LGBT is on the ascendency in this society, so it will be better represented in medical school applications. Others who have had a hard time who aren't necessarily URM or LGBT will be at a disadvantage, not because medical school admissions are justly or rightly conducted, but because they haven't been sufficiently politically represented and thus bear a persisting invisible stigma.

It may be the case that LGBT might make better doctors, but they aren't privileged because it is right. Their privilege is largely of convention--just as the URM who comes from a multimillion dollar family is privileged by convention.

What is your point? Just because someone else's struggles are not acknowledged, we shouldn't acknowledge anyone's struggles?

Man, a story about super loaded URM is getting old.

 

[kanzeon]

Plenty of people live with tremendous disadvantages and cannot put them to use in their medical school applications.

Some people are short and so ugly that it is difficult to look at them--and study after study shows that such people are at a substantial disadvantage professionally. Surely this may have the potential of making such people more empathetic. But good luck writing that on a medical school application.

Others might have anxiety disorders or have dealt with chronic abuse and trauma as children. Such difficulties would most certainly open such people to a huge disadvantage in life, in general, and cause them great psychological distress on their way to adulthood. This would almost certainly make them more empathetic. Even if one grows from this, but good luck touching that third rail on medical school applications.

Others might be tremendously fat, and not be particularly in control of this--having been taught bad habits by their parents, as well as being genetically loaded for obese. Yet, this too would probably count as a significant strike during medical school applications--and all of life. It, too, would be likely to make such people more empathetic. All of these things, if properly handled, could make people better doctors, but it would probably be a bad idea to write about it on personal statements.

Are you so sure about this? What med school admissions committee are you on? I think a lot of med schools would welcome any diversity that shows personal growth and working through adversity. Now things like anxiety attacks might bring up red flags simply because that could affect how good of a doctor you'll be.

I was an admissions reader for my undergraduate institution after I graduated and I remember quite a few applications where the applicant wrote about their struggles with their weight and how this affected them. More often than not the readers, including myself, would rank them highly if they had something significant to say and showed growth (other than just saying I'm overweight and it's affected me).

But again, promoting doctors that are part of a community that's underrepresented in medicine has other/different advantages that I think have been already stated a million times.

 

[TRSTme]

You have no more reason to disclose your sexuality on a medical school application than a heterosexual individual does.

While comments like these infuriate me to no end, I can almost see where you are coming from. Although you blatantly disregard the difficulties experienced by LGBT people (since a desire to mention significant discrimination one has faced and the new perspectives it brought is certainly a valid reason to disclose one's sexuality on a medical school application, I'm assuming you think this discrimination doesn't exist), I agree that one shouldn't need to disclose their sexuality, but this would only occur in a world where this discrimination actually does not exist. Disclosing one's sexuality isn't just a statement of "hey, this is whom I'm emotionally and sexually attracted to," rather, it's a acknowledgment of having experienced issues that straight people (luckily) do not encounter. I hope you understand that this type of statement is not only ignorant, but also reflective of the stubborn one-sidedness that does nothing to better homophobic intolerance.

 

[kanzeon]

While comments like these infuriate me to no end, I can almost see where you are coming from. Although you blatantly disregard the difficulties experienced by LGBT people (since a desire to mention significant discrimination one has faced and the new perspectives it brought is certainly a valid reason to disclose one's sexuality on a medical school application, I'm assuming you think this discrimination doesn't exist), I agree that one shouldn't need to disclose their sexuality, but this would only occur in a world where this discrimination actually does not exist. Disclosing one's sexuality isn't just a statement of "hey, this is whom I'm emotionally and sexually attracted to," rather, it's a acknowledgment of having experienced issues that straight people (luckily) do not encounter. I hope you understand that this type of statement is not only ignorant, but also reflective of the stubborn one-sidedness that does nothing to better homophobic intolerance.

👍 Nicely put!

 

[DR MOM]

This fear that White, Heterosexual, (mostly) Christian men have of losing their stranglehold on all forms of our society is truly palpable...

They are so scared of being "discriminated" against that they forget about how long that their demographic has discriminated against everyone else. Scared of getting a taste of your own medicine? I really hope that most of these people get weeded out before I get to medical school or I may end up having issues with half of my cohort haha.

I love this! As for schools, here are some I noticed (you can usually find this under the student life or selection factor tab on the MSAR) -

Boston - does not specifically mention sexuality on MSAR but has a very thoughtful and powerful statement about the value of diversity
Duke - includes sexual orientation in non-discrimination blurb
Harvard - specifically mentions LGBTQ support here http://hms.harvard.edu/departments/admissions/multicultural-affairs
OHSU - includes sexual orientation in non-discrimination blurb
Stanford - includes sexual orientation and gender identity in non-discrimination blurb
Brown - includes sexual orientation and gender identity in non-discrimination blurb
Tufts - includes sexual orientation and gender identity in non-discrimination blurb
UCSF - perfect rating from the HRC on being supportive of LGBTQ folks
University of TX medical branch - includes sexual orientation in non-discrimination blurb
U of VT - includes sexual orientation and gender identity in non-discrimination blurb
Vanderbilt - includes sexual orientation in non-discrimination blurb
Yale - includes sexual orientation and gender identity in non-discrimination blurb

 

[niblet]

They are so scared of being "discriminated" against that they forget about how long that their demographic has discriminated against everyone else. Scared of getting a taste of your own medicine?

Good lord.

 

[ellul]

i would not only bring it up in your application but at every opportunity you have in your career or social life. it's crucial to let people/institutions know about what gets you off and the feels you have caught as a result (this is serious business). it will make people walk on eggshells a bit more around you which is a big plus, gives you 'hand' in a lot of professional interactions.

 

[touchpause13]

i would not only bring it up in your application but at every opportunity you have in your career or social life. it's crucial to let people/institutions know about what gets you off and the feels you have caught as a result (this is serious business). it will make people walk on eggshells a bit more around you which is a big plus, gives you 'hand' in a lot of professional interactions.

0/10 for obvious trolling

 

[qtpai]

What is your point? Just because someone else's struggles are not acknowledged, we shouldn't acknowledge anyone's struggles?

Man, a story about super loaded URM is getting old.

My point is that such decisions is not a question of morality, so why are you pretending it is? If it was a question about morality, then the process would be fair, and your appeal to morality would be justified. As it is, such rhetoric is a mystification.

Is the story about super loaded URM getting old? Maybe that's because it's too common and clearly unfair.

 

[qtpai]

Are you so sure about this? What med school admissions committee are you on? I think a lot of med schools would welcome any diversity that shows personal growth and working through adversity. Now things like anxiety attacks might bring up red flags simply because that could affect how good of a doctor you'll be.

I was an admissions reader for my undergraduate institution after I graduated and I remember quite a few applications where the applicant wrote about their struggles with their weight and how this affected them. More often than not the readers, including myself, would rank them highly if they had something significant to say and showed growth (other than just saying I'm overweight and it's affected me).

But again, promoting doctors that are part of a community that's underrepresented in medicine has other/different advantages that I think have been already stated a million times.

Thank you for correcting me.

As far as anxiety attacks, what if such a person claimed not to have anxiety attacks anymore?

I have read several places on SDN that there does exist a real stigma against past mental illness--even if it has been overcome.

If that's so, then my point stands.

 

[SunsFun]

My point is that such decisions is not a question of morality, so why are you pretending it is? If it was a question about morality, then the process would be fair, and your appeal to morality would be justified. As it is, such rhetoric is a mystification.

Is the story about super loaded URM getting old? Maybe that's because it's too common and clearly unfair.

Sorry but I have heard time understanding your first paragraph. I asked you a yes or no question. Do you believe that because some people may not get due credit for their struggles, all the rest shouldn't get any as well?

Secondly, until you show that there is a higher percentage of millionaires URM that go to med school relative to the rest of the population, you shouldn't talk about it being "too common".

 

[EternalEmber]

Example secondary question: Most sig accomplishment to date?

Example answer to secondary question: Coming out.

I think it is more significant then people think.

Bad answer? I don't think so. Can make for a powerful essay if written correctly

 

[Goro]

Fascinating topic and question, OP. I would have to say that in >10 years of interviewing, very few people specifically came out on their applications, but it was sometimes apparent by their ECs (clubs or charities they're involved in). And we're a very gay-friend school to boot.

I'd surmise that in applying to Loma Linda or Loyola, coming out might not be such a good idea. UCSF, or NYU, fine.

So, this issue has been discussed a little bit on past forums, but since many of us are writing secondaries and often confronted with questions regarding conflicts and diversity, I'd like to pose the question again: are you "out" on your applications?

As an out lesbian, I am conflicted about disclosing this on my application. While it is a significant part of who I am, it does not define my identity, as a healthcare provider or as a person as a whole (most don't know until I explicitly tell them), nor do I need to discuss it in order to fulfill any sort of "diversity" quotient. However, some schools' secondaries specifically ask about sexual identity/orientation when they ask about challenges and diversity (Stanford) and others make it a point to recruit LGBT students (Yale).

If I were to talk about it, I think I would talk about it in terms of how my coming out process really helped me in understanding others' perspectives that are fundamentally different from my own and made me a better communicator when discussing tough issues, something I think I would definitely extend to how I interact with colleagues and patients, no matter what the topic is. I genuinely feel that going through that made me a more aware and compassionate person. In that sense, my coming out process and my identity as queer is important to me.

However, I am also sensitive to what some may feel as inappropriate or unprofessional, even though that is not necessarily my opinion. I didn't discuss it in my primary, so I can choose which schools, if any, I choose to discuss it with.

Thoughts? If anyone feels more comfortable having this conversation privately, don't hesitate to PM me.

 

[Bamfu]

It's still pretty taboo, so I'd just say to know your audience.

Like it or not, there are adcom members who share each of the viewpoints in this thread. Though you may consider them ignorant, there will be folks evaluating your application that think "how is this relevant? It's not relevant that I'm straight." Conversely, there will be LGBT members evaluating your application that really empathize with your experiences.

IMO, keep it out of your AMCAS PS. List it in your activities. Go for it on targetted secondary essays, as aforementioned in the thread. I think it just needs to actually be relevant to you as an individual. I loved whoever said that their coming out experience really opened their eyes to the differences of colleagues and patients, regardless of the situation. I think that would be an excellent approach to relevance.

 

[CarlosDanger]

"If I were to talk about it, I think I would talk about it in terms of how my coming out process really helped me in understanding others' perspectives that are fundamentally different from my own and made me a better communicator when discussing tough issues, something I think I would definitely extend to how I interact with colleagues and patients, no matter what the topic is. I genuinely feel that going through that made me a more aware and compassionate person."

I would say exactly this, I think you hit the nail on the head. Its funny that medical schools want us as future doctors to be able to appreciate and value others fundamentally different than we are, but if we are those different people ourselves, we're still worried that it will put us at a disadvantage on applications.

 

[slopes23]

This mindset that these young Libertarian kids have that this country is equal and there is no difference between living heterosexual and homosexual in this country or Black and White or any other contrast is so naive it makes my eyes cross.

They are so scared of being "discriminated" against that they forget about how long that their demographic has discriminated against everyone else. Scared of getting a taste of your own medicine? I really hope that most of these people get weeded out before I get to medical school or I may end up having issues with half of my cohort haha.

I just want to be clear on what exactly it is you are saying. Essentially you are saying that because the younger generation actually believes in equality to the point where they don't treat people of other races or sexual orientation differently they are naive? And furthermore that because one "demographic" discriminated against another it should now be tolerated to go the other way around?

I love when people my age talk about our generation like they are so above any problems that may face us.... FYI, first part of your post was about disliking racists, while using a racist remark (white-bread), then second part you say that young "libertarian" kids are niave basically calling the fact that they see others equal stupid, and finish your post by saying that you hope you aren't stuck with what you consider to be a certain type of people because if not you will have issues with them. Interesting way to tackle an argument and really show off your tolerance of others.


As for the OP - It seems like a lot of people are painting this topic with a very broad stroke in one way or the other. People naturally tend toward mirror imaging and think that the experiences that others have with something mirror their own when this is not true. Some people come out at an early age, others at an older age, some into very welcoming friends/family/communities, and others the complete opposite. It really comes down to your personal situation and what you got out of it. Personally I wouldn't necessarily recommend just writing about it so you can stand out and help fill a diversity quota. Write about it if some of the experiences you had to endure (both good and bad, everyone always focuses on overcoming bad, and never what they learned from the good and I don't know why) changed who you are as a person. Moreover only if this change makes you a better candidate to be a future doctor.

Good luck on your secondaries.

 

[ChemEngMD]

"If I were to talk about it, I think I would talk about it in terms of how my coming out process really helped me in understanding others' perspectives that are fundamentally different from my own and made me a better communicator when discussing tough issues, something I think I would definitely extend to how I interact with colleagues and patients, no matter what the topic is. I genuinely feel that going through that made me a more aware and compassionate person."

I would say exactly this, I think you hit the nail on the head. Its funny that medical schools want us as future doctors to be able to appreciate and value others fundamentally different than we are, but if we are those different people ourselves, we're still worried that it will put us at a disadvantage on applications.

Love your user name.

I just want to be clear on what exactly it is you are saying. Essentially you are saying that because the younger generation actually believes in equality to the point where they don't treat people of other races or sexual orientation differently they are naive? And furthermore that because one "demographic" discriminated against another it should now be tolerated to go the other way around?

I love when people my age talk about our generation like they are so above any problems that may face us.... FYI, first part of your post was about disliking racists, while using a racist remark (white-bread), then second part you say that young "libertarian" kids are niave basically calling the fact that they see others equal stupid, and finish your post by saying that you hope you aren't stuck with what you consider to be a certain type of people because if not you will have issues with them. Interesting way to tackle an argument and really show off your tolerance of others.

1. I never said "white-bread" - go read my post again. I said White, Heterosexual, (mostly) Christian

2. I am calling Libertarians naive because they choose to ignore the TRUTH of what our society is. You can live in whatever utopia you've created in your mind and believe that we are all born with equal opportunities in this country, but the FACTS are that this is not true. It is the privileged demographic that has the ability to simply choose not to see other's struggles and believe in their hearts that we all have an "equal shot". No. That's just plain naive. I appreciate the "idea" that we are all equal, but you can't honestly sit there and believe it when 1 in 3 blacks will go to prison in their lives, 1 in 6 Latinos will, and homophobes are allowed to spew their propaganda all over television like it is fact. That's just the tip of the iceberg, inequalities are pervasive in our society and if you don't see that then you are simply of the privileged mindset.

3. I have a problem with people who have low EQs. If you are incapable of empathizing with a minority group (be it religious, ethnic, sexual, w/e) and you like to look at things from the matter of fact standpoint of a Libertarian (hey man, I struggle just as much as you regardless of any demographic differences we have...all of our struggles are equal) then you have a low EQ and IMO will not be able to relate to a diverse patient population. People who have this mindset are oblivious to the realities of this world and I would LOVE to teach them about how it is to be a minority in this country if they are in my cohort, but the people I have met who share these views are usually pretty stubborn and convinced that they are 100% correct.

 

[touchpause13]

Love your user name.



1. I never said "white-bread" - go read my post again. I said White, Heterosexual, (mostly) Christian

2. I am calling Libertarians naive because they choose to ignore the TRUTH of what our society is. You can live in whatever utopia you've created in your mind and believe that we are all born with equal opportunities in this country, but the FACTS are that this is not true. It is the privileged demographic that has the ability to simply choose not to see other's struggles and believe in their hearts that we all have an "equal shot". No. That's just plain naive. I appreciate the "idea" that we are all equal, but you can't honestly sit there and believe it when 1 in 3 blacks will go to prison in their lives, 1 in 6 Latinos will, and homophobes are allowed to spew their propaganda all over television like it is fact. That's just the tip of the iceberg, inequalities are pervasive in our society and if you don't see that then you are simply of the privileged mindset.

3. I have a problem with people who have low EQs. If you are incapable of empathizing with a minority group (be it religious, ethnic, sexual, w/e) and you like to look at things from the matter of fact standpoint of a Libertarian (hey man, I struggle just as much as you regardless of any demographic differences we have...all of our struggles are equal) then you have a low EQ and IMO will not be able to relate to a diverse patient population. People who have this mindset are oblivious to the realities of this world and I would LOVE to teach them about how it is to be a minority in this country if they are in my cohort, but the people I have met who share these views are usually pretty stubborn and convinced that they are 100% correct.

+100000

As a queer person I cosign all this

 

[slopes23]

Love your user name.



1. I never said "white-bread" - go read my post again. I said White, Heterosexual, (mostly) Christian

2. I am calling Libertarians naive because they choose to ignore the TRUTH of what our society is. You can live in whatever utopia you've created in your mind and believe that we are all born with equal opportunities in this country, but the FACTS are that this is not true. It is the privileged demographic that has the ability to simply choose not to see other's struggles and believe in their hearts that we all have an "equal shot". No. That's just plain naive. I appreciate the "idea" that we are all equal, but you can't honestly sit there and believe it when 1 in 3 blacks will go to prison in their lives, 1 in 6 Latinos will, and homophobes are allowed to spew their propaganda all over television like it is fact. That's just the tip of the iceberg, inequalities are pervasive in our society and if you don't see that then you are simply of the privileged mindset.

3. I have a problem with people who have low EQs. If you are incapable of empathizing with a minority group (be it religious, ethnic, sexual, w/e) and you like to look at things from the matter of fact standpoint of a Libertarian (hey man, I struggle just as much as you regardless of any demographic differences we have...all of our struggles are equal) then you have a low EQ and IMO will not be able to relate to a diverse patient population. People who have this mindset are oblivious to the realities of this world and I would LOVE to teach them about how it is to be a minority in this country if they are in my cohort, but the people I have met who share these views are usually pretty stubborn and convinced that they are 100% correct.

You are correct you did not say white-bread, I attributed it to the wrong person as I had just read it before I saw your post, and for that my apologies.

Second let me just say that I am not a libertarian, but that's not to say that I agree with the way you are attempting to portray them. I am pretty sure libertarians believe that everyone is made equal, as in they treat those whom they interact with as equals. That is not to say that they think that everyone has had the exact same opportunities that they have had. Even I am sure between the "privileged" they get more or less opportunity then one another. As far as the whole prison thing that is apple's and oranges. You are confusing not having equal opportunities with not being TREATED as an equal during interactions.

Third, now you go on to make this assumption with no basis whatsoever other than your hearsay. Show me one shroud of proof where it says they are not able to empathize with minorities of race, religion, sexuality, or otherwise.

More than anything you come off like someone who is a minority and wasn't privileged and blame the "white man" for your suffering. Perhaps you should just acknowledge that despite being created equal, different people are born into different situations period. And you use the cop out of " and if you don't see that then you are simply of the privileged mindset." meaning if you don't agree with me then you don't matter. That's not going to get you anywhere. I am sure there are ton's of people who have privileged lives who recognize the struggles people have in this country, while others don't. We live in a very ignorant country overall. It's just the way it is, but don't get it twisted and say things that indicate you believe the ignorance is only present among the "privileged."

Get the chip off your shoulder and stop showing disdain for anyone who doesn't think like you.

Enjoy making friends!

 

[touchpause13]

Enjoy making friends!

Dude I'll be your friend

 

[ChemEngMD]

You are correct you did not say white-bread, I attributed it to the wrong person as I had just read it before I saw your post, and for that my apologies.

Second let me just say that I am not a libertarian, but that's not to say that I agree with the way you are attempting to portray them. I am pretty sure libertarians believe that everyone is made equal, as in they treat those whom they interact with as equals. That is not to say that they think that everyone has had the exact same opportunities that they have had. Even I am sure between the "privileged" they get more or less opportunity then one another. As far as the whole prison thing that is apple's and oranges. You are confusing not having equal opportunities with not being TREATED as an equal during interactions.

Third, now you go on to make this assumption with no basis whatsoever other than your hearsay. Show me one shroud of proof where it says they are not able to empathize with minorities of race, religion, sexuality, or otherwise.

More than anything you come off like someone who is a minority and wasn't privileged and blame the "white man" for your suffering. Perhaps you should just acknowledge that despite being created equal, different people are born into different situations period. And you use the cop out of " and if you don't see that then you are simply of the privileged mindset." meaning if you don't agree with me then you don't matter. That's not going to get you anywhere. I am sure there are ton's of people who have privileged lives who recognize the struggles people have in this country, while others don't. We live in a very ignorant country overall. It's just the way it is, but don't get it twisted and say things that indicate you believe the ignorance is only present among the "privileged."

Get the chip off your shoulder and stop showing disdain for anyone who doesn't think like you.

Enjoy making friends!

Wait for it...


wait for it...

...here comes the mind-melt: I'm actually mixed race!! I'm half white and grew up in the whitest state in the country so trust me when I understand this issue from the side of the privileged...not just the angry minority.

Oh and you wanted proof on libertarians??

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1665934&

http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtla...understanding-libertarian-morality.pub610.pdf (full copy)

^^Peer reviewed paper my friend. Not hearsay...cold, hard, social science.

"We found that, compared to liberals and conservatives, libertarians show 1) stronger endorsement of individual liberty as their foremost guiding principle and correspondingly weaker endorsement of other moral principles, 2) a relatively cerebral as opposed to emotional intellectual style, and 3) lower interdependence and social relatedness. Our findings add to a growing recognition of the role of psychological predispositions in the organization of political attitudes."

Cerebral as opposed to emotional intellectual style...i.e. high IQ, low EQ. And it says "lower interdependence and social relatedness".

Now I ask you to show me PROOF that they don't have low EQs 😉

Oh and I have friends of all races...I was a part of a multicultural fraternity that had brothers from all backgrounds (ethnic, ability, religious, sexual, racial diversity) so I am far from the ignorant, stereotype you are trying to portray me as. I am just older and understand how this country really is for people who aren't privileged.

I recognize my privilege. As a heterosexual, male I have many privileges in this country and I recognize them and empathize with those who don't have them. There are struggles that women and the LGBTQ community go through that I will never face.

I'm just down for some social justice, my brother.

 

[crying]

Yeah...there really needs to be secondary questions or something that can evaluate social and cultural competance...

 

[slopes23]

Wait for it...


wait for it...

...here comes the mind-melt: I'm actually mixed race!! I'm half white and grew up in the whitest state in the country so trust me when I understand this issue from the side of the privileged...not just the angry minority.

Oh and you wanted proof on libertarians??

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1665934&

http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtla...understanding-libertarian-morality.pub610.pdf (full copy)

^^Peer reviewed paper my friend. Not hearsay...cold, hard, social science.

"We found that, compared to liberals and conservatives, libertarians show 1) stronger endorsement of individual liberty as their foremost guiding principle and correspondingly weaker endorsement of other moral principles, 2) a relatively cerebral as opposed to emotional intellectual style, and 3) lower interdependence and social relatedness. Our findings add to a growing recognition of the role of psychological predispositions in the organization of political attitudes."

Cerebral as opposed to emotional intellectual style...i.e. high IQ, low EQ. And it says "lower interdependence and social relatedness".

Now I ask you to show me PROOF that they don't have low EQs 😉

Oh and I have friends of all races...I was a part of a multicultural fraternity that had brothers from all backgrounds (ethnic, ability, religious, sexual, racial diversity) so I am far from the ignorant, stereotype you are trying to portray me as. I am just older and understand how this country really is for people who aren't privileged.

I recognize my privilege. As a heterosexual, male I have many privileges in this country and I recognize them and empathize with those who don't have them. There are struggles that women and the LGBTQ community go through that I will never face.

I'm just down for some social justice, my brother.

" 1)Libertarians will value liberty more strongly and consistently than liberals or conservatives, at the expense of other moral concerns. This expectation is based on the explicit writings of libertarian authors (e.g. Rand, 1960).
2) Libertarians will rely upon reason more – and emotion less – than will either liberals or conservatives. For example, one of the main libertarian magazines is called, simply, Reason.
3) Libertarians will be more individualistic and independent compared to both liberals and conservatives."

1) Valuing liberty at the expense of other moral concerns. It doesn't say what moral concerns, and to what extent they are being compromised so unless you have a problem with people enjoying their freedom I don't quite see where you are taking that one. Because they are defending the freedom of the majorities and minorities alike.
2) Relying on one thing more than another thing (i.e. relying on logic more than emotion) does not mean one has a low EQ, and it also doesn't mean they have a high IQ. You could be relying on reason more, but your reasoning is incorrect (low IQ), and just because you rely on logic over emotion does not mean that you are emotionally inept, it just means that you like the results that a logical style of thought offers you versus that of an emotional style of reasoning. Furthermore, by the paper saying they rely on their reason more and their emotion less it is not saying anything about EQ at all. EQ just quantitatively illustrates how an individual perceives, reasons, understands, and manages emotions. The paper is just trying to state that they are more objective vs. subjective when it comes to political issues. This says nothing on their ability to perceive, reason, understand, and manage the emotions of those around them and their own. So it seems to me that you are not interpreting the findings of the paper correctly.

Furthermore, I don't have to show you proof that they don't have low EQ's, the burden of proof lies on the prosecution. My defense is that the world is not as cut and dry and you make it seem, and you shouldn't be so quick to make judgements.

3) Being more individualistic and independent -- it just says they are more, doesn't quantify to what extent or comment on what effects being more independent may have.

Also, you might be interested to note that out of the 18,000+ people they surveyed something like only 6.9% responded they were libertarians, so it doesn't seem to as prevalent among our generation as you earlier portrayed.

And it's not a mind melting premise to find out you are of mixed race. Not to mention you stating that you lived in one of the whitest states in the country. This more than likely contributed to your views because you lacked diversity. Diversity is not all white, and its not all blacks. Diversity is living in a melting pot where you see people from all races and more over cultures. I live in a melting pot, and although there may be people for have more opportunity then others based on connections or in certain more rare circumstances financial means, it does not mean they are treated differently in regular daily interactions.

Anyways, this thread was about OP and whether or not to come out on his/her essay, I gave my advice in that regard a couple responses back and will not continue to derail this thread further from its intended topic.

 

[DR MOM]

dude i'll be your friend

+1

 

[ChemEngMD]

Anyways, this thread was about OP and whether or not to come out on his/her essay, I gave my advice in that regard a couple responses back and will not continue to derail this thread further from its intended topic.

You right.

I just got heated from these people on here saying that they wouldn't put that they were heterosexual on their app. Ignorance.

I believe that if being out is a major part of why you want to be a doctor or you have faced adversity because of it, then be out on your app.

 

[TRSTme]

Dude I'll be your friend

I just got heated from these people on here saying that they wouldn't put that they were heterosexual on their app. Ignorance.

I believe that if being out is a major part of why you want to be a doctor or you have faced adversity because of it, then be out on your app.

😍

 

[Quizlet04]

The Tufts secondary has this question:

"Do you consider yourself a person who would contribute to the diversity of the student body of Tufts University School of Medicine?"

Can I answer that I'm gay? Sure. Most students aren't gay, so by adding in my gay self, I make things diverse. But should I answer? I'm not sure. Tufts is in MA, the most gay-friendly state in the union. I've experienced some discrimination in medical treatment and on the job. Does that make diverse enough, I guess? I am wrestling with it, which is bad since Tufts is one of my top choices and I want to get in this secondary ASAP.

I also came from a region where growing up as a mixed religious family made me a minority. I experienced discrimination there, too. Does that make me diverse? Again, I can't figure that out. I'm ten years older than the average student, giving me niftier life experiences (in general). Does that make me diverse?

I hate this question.

 

[staygoldponyboy]

The Tufts secondary has this question:

"Do you consider yourself a person who would contribute to the diversity of the student body of Tufts University School of Medicine?"

Can I answer that I'm gay? Sure. Most students aren't gay, so by adding in my gay self, I make things diverse. But should I answer? I'm not sure. Tufts is in MA, the most gay-friendly state in the union. I've experienced some discrimination in medical treatment and on the job. Does that make diverse enough, I guess? I am wrestling with it, which is bad since Tufts is one of my top choices and I want to get in this secondary ASAP.

I also came from a region where growing up as a mixed religious family made me a minority. I experienced discrimination there, too. Does that make me diverse? Again, I can't figure that out. I'm ten years older than the average student, giving me niftier life experiences (in general). Does that make me diverse?

I hate this question.

Well put. This is exactly what I struggle with. I also didn't think about the difference between the Tufts question and most other diversity questions until just now - most others ask how you contribute to diversity, not if you. I feel like any answer we give has this implication that we believe we are the only applicants who have faced these struggles or have these qualities. I graduated from art school before I became interested in medicine and research - does my art background make me more "diverse" than my experiences being gay? Or diverse at all? Do I discuss them both, and do they inform each other and how I would practice medicine?

Probably the short answer to all our questions is "yes", but it's frustrating to feel like I need to frame every part of me in terms of implications for medicine (and getting into school).

That being said, if this process weren't so awful, I'd probably welcome this opportunity to reflect on how my sexuality informs my career in medicine and research -- but writing these essays is the worst.

 

[whatever5]

wait are you saying that i am wrong, because i would not mind about being treated by lgbt doctor.
But a lgbt is right because he doesnt want to be treated by a hetero.
I understand there are many hetero doctors who may segregate, but i hope when i become a doctor i can attend to my patients equally, and make them confortable whatever is the subject.

I'm saying you're wrong because you think that minority groups don't have additional life experiences and personal knowledge that could be beneficial over the majority groups of the same cohort.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

The Tufts secondary has this question:

"Do you consider yourself a person who would contribute to the diversity of the student body of Tufts University School of Medicine?"

Can I answer that I'm gay? Sure. Most students aren't gay, so by adding in my gay self, I make things diverse. But should I answer? I'm not sure. Tufts is in MA, the most gay-friendly state in the union. I've experienced some discrimination in medical treatment and on the job. Does that make diverse enough, I guess? I am wrestling with it, which is bad since Tufts is one of my top choices and I want to get in this secondary ASAP.

I also came from a region where growing up as a mixed religious family made me a minority. I experienced discrimination there, too. Does that make me diverse? Again, I can't figure that out. I'm ten years older than the average student, giving me niftier life experiences (in general). Does that make me diverse?

I hate this question.

I interpreted that question as "Do you want to be considered for admission at this school? If so, explain how you would contribute to the diversity of the student body."

Anyway, I'm wrestling with a similar issue for diversity essays in general. I could talk about being asexual, but I've been in the closet about that for the most part and the most "discrimination" I've faced from that is just people (doctors included) assuming that I can't really be asexual and must instead be gay-in-denial, a childhood sex abuse victim, too effeminate, or any other number of things. So it's not like I've been fired, disowned by my family, or told to leave an establishment. Another factor is that I feel like there's a sizable risk of being interpreted as anti-social or autistic or offending the reader by even bringing up the subject of sex if I talk about it. On the other hand, a lot of people don't know about it and assume the wrong things when they do learn about it, and I believe that being asexual has made me much more open minded. That and the best non-controversial thing I can come up with for a diversity essay is talking about the perspective I gained about access to healthcare for the working poor and uninsured from seeing my mom's struggles as well as those of my coworkers in a minimum wage job which I feel like is stretching the limit of "diversity".

One way I've considered going about it is submitting an essay about my orientation to schools that explicitly mention sexual orientation in their prompts, and then submitting the safe but "meh" essay to all other schools but I'm even torn on that.

 

[DontBanMeBro]

👍

This is what I'm getting at exactly.

To be fair, people exploit things all the time to get a leg up, whether it be race, SES, family deaths, etc. I guess it's just part of the game.

bros are you responding seriously to this Radon Xp, the kid is in high school

 

[touchpause13]

bros are you responding seriously to this Radon Xp, the kid is in high school

Jeez. I shud have figured that... I'm detecting the emotional maturity of an 8th grader

 

[ChemEngMD]

bros are you responding seriously to this Radon Xp, the kid is in high school

Everything makes so much more sense now. I figured it was something like that.

 

[bigDee]

Haven't read the thread but I think a homosexual should put it on his application if he can tell a relevant story about how its affected his life, and how that relates to him being a doctor. He shouldn't be ashamed of expressing that kind of struggle.

But otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Don't put it on just to announce that you're part of some LGBT group.

 

[bunionberry]

Haven't read the thread but I think a homosexual should put it on his application if he can tell a relevant story about how its affected his life, and how that relates to him being a doctor. He shouldn't be ashamed of expressing that kind of struggle.

But otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Don't put it on just to announce that you're part of some LGBT group.

This. I'm not sure why so many people are arguing about this. It was made pretty clear early in this thread that there isn't a point to disclose it unless it contributes to your whole person in some way. If you have had to overcome something or have a valuable story then talk about it. Otherwise, is there really any reason to disclose your sexuality?

 

[hmockingbird]

Be smart. If you're applying to a school like Loma Linda, Creighton, or any other religiously-affiliated school, don't mention it. Otherwise, any school on the East and West Coasts should be fine.

I went to undergrad at Creighton so I just wanted to add this. Of course this is not about the med school so take it with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't think the culture is that different (I chose to go to another med school). I'm not gay, but some of my best friends in college were, and there is a large LGBT population at Creighton. A lot of my friends said they chose the school because they felt they would be accepted there and were pleasantly surprised because they expected the opposite as it was a religious school. The religious order that runs the school is the Jesuits which have a history of being kind of the "fringe" group of priests (they have been excommunicated twice). They were actually in the news recently because the pastor of the campus church left the order (basically resigned from being a priest) in part over the Catholic church not allowing same-sex marriages.

I'm not here to promote Creighton or anything but I just wanted to note that I think you'd be fine being out on your app there. Maybe for Loyola too since they are also Jesuit.

 

[bunionberry]

I went to undergrad at Creighton so I just wanted to add this. Of course this is not about the med school so take it with a grain of salt, but I wouldn't think the culture is that different (I chose to go to another med school). I'm not gay, but some of my best friends in college were, and there is a large LGBT population at Creighton. A lot of my friends said they chose the school because they felt they would be accepted there and were pleasantly surprised because they expected the opposite as it was a religious school. The religious order that runs the school is the Jesuits which have a history of being kind of the "fringe" group of priests (they have been excommunicated twice). They were actually in the news recently because the pastor of the campus church left the order (basically resigned from being a priest) in part over the Catholic church not allowing same-sex marriages.

I'm not here to promote Creighton or anything but I just wanted to note that I think you'd be fine being out on your app there. Maybe for Loyola too since they are also Jesuit.

From what I've experienced and heard, most Jesuit schools are pretty chill about everything. I went to a Jesuit high school and no one cared about who you were or what you believed in. I miss high school 🙁

 

[LiamNeesons]

"So, did you fly or drive? How was your trip?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"Oh... ok... So... Why you?"

"I had troubles in life so I'm unique."

"We'll... everyone has troubles in life. How is that fact unique?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"We'll be in touch."

 

[QrtrLifeCrisis]

"So, did you fly or drive? How was your trip?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"Oh... ok... So... Why you?"

"I had troubles in life so I'm unique."

"We'll... everyone has troubles in life. How is that fact unique?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"We'll be in touch."

Boo. Go home.

 

[touchpause13]

"So, did you fly or drive? How was your trip?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"Oh... ok... So... Why you?"

"I had troubles in life so I'm unique."

"We'll... everyone has troubles in life. How is that fact unique?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"We'll be in touch."

0/10 for obvious trolling

 

[LiamNeesons]

.

 

[staygoldponyboy]

So, after doing some writing, having conversations with friends and family, and thinking about these responses (thank you everyone!) I've decided to write about it in diversity questions for a few schools that specifically mention sexual orientation/identity in their questions or non-descrimination clauses.

I'm interested in treating genetic disorders. Some will have mental and physical disabilities and deformations, and some may feel unfairly defined by an aspect of themselves that they didn't choose - whose bodies, minds, and hearts may be misrepresented and misunderstood. While I cannot begin to comprehend the challenges that they face, what I have learned from my experiences with my sexuality will help me better empathize and connect with these patients.

I'll probably encounter people in training and in practice who have to "come out" about other aspects of their health - STD's, abortions, undocumented status for immigrants, etc, and I think I can be a better advocate for them now that I have come out than when I identified as straight.

I don't think my experience or perspective is necessarily unique among LGBTQ applicants, but I can write a more honest and medicine-relevant essay about that than other aspects about me (like having a non-traditional educational and work background), so I'm going to go for it.

"So, did you fly or drive? How was your trip?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"Oh... ok... So... Why you?"

"I had troubles in life so I'm unique."

"We'll... everyone has troubles in life. How is that fact unique?"

"I'm a man who likes to have sex with men."

"We'll be in touch."

Dude, there will always be inappropriate and irrelevant ways to discuss all kinds of differences and struggles. As a doctor you're going to encounter patients with life experiences you won't care understand, and I just hope you're more respectful to them.

 

[QrtrLifeCrisis]

Is it trolling if its helpful information? In my opinion, that's how people are going to interpret irrelevant statements. OP, you're welcome.

Your post doesn't deserve a mature response, so I'm going to stick to my childish one:

Boooooooo, go home. You're welcome as well.

 

[touchpause13]

So, after doing some writing, having conversations with friends and family, and thinking about these responses (thank you everyone!) I've decided to write about it in diversity questions for a few schools that specifically mention sexual orientation/identity in their questions or non-descrimination clauses.

I'm interested in treating genetic disorders. Some will have mental and physical disabilities and deformations, and some may feel unfairly defined by an aspect of themselves that they didn't choose - whose bodies, minds, and hearts may be misrepresented and misunderstood. While I cannot begin to comprehend the challenges that they face, what I have learned from my experiences with my sexuality will help me better empathize and connect with these patients.

I'll probably encounter people in training and in practice who have to "come out" about other aspects of their health - STD's, abortions, undocumented status for immigrants, etc, and I think I can be a better advocate for them now that I have come out than when I identified as straight.

I don't think my experience or perspective is necessarily unique among LGBTQ applicants, but I can write a more honest and medicine-relevant essay about that than other aspects about me (like having a non-traditional educational and work background), so I'm going to go for it.



Dude, there will always be inappropriate and irrelevant ways to discuss all kinds of differences and struggles. As a doctor you're going to encounter patients with life experiences you won't care understand, and I just hope you're more respectful to them.

Best wishes and good luck to you hon. You are obviously an emotionally mature and respectful individual

 

[Arkangeloid]

Medicine is one of the most conservative professions there is. Many adcoms will use your sexual orientation as a reason to deny you an interview. So don't risk it.

EDIT: You're taking a big risk. It will count against you at many places, and you will certainly lose interviews for it. But it may help you look like a more interesting and diverse applicant to certain adcoms. And that may give you the edge you need to get in the school you want. Best of luck.

 

[tantacles]

Medicine is one of the most conservative professions there is. Many adcoms will use your sexual orientation as a reason to deny you an interview. So don't risk it.

EDIT: You're taking a big risk. It will count against you at many places, and you will certainly lose interviews for it. But it may help you look like a more interesting and diverse applicant to certain adcoms. And that may give you the edge you need to get in the school you want. Best of luck.

This advice, while vaguely accurate, neglects to realize that being LGBT can GET you interviews if you present it the right way.

I was completely out on my applications. My personal statement made no mention of it, but when I talked about my sexual orientation in my secondaries, I mainly focused on the unique insight being LGBTQIA(B, C, D, whatever) gives you to parties that are the victim of discrimination and barriers that exist to finding healthcare.

It's a risk, but one that can really pay off.

 

[bionerd89]

Hi, sorry if this is the wrong place to post this question but I have been having trouble finding a good answer to my question. I was wondering if putting all my extracurricular activities in LGBTQ community might affect my application. For example, I worked a lot with transgender healthcare and coordinated a queer youth conference. I am an ally and a supporter of LGBTQ issues.

 

[Do Something]

Hi, sorry if this is the wrong place to post this question but I have been having trouble finding a good answer to my question. I was wondering if putting all my extracurricular activities in LGBTQ community might affect my application. For example, I worked a lot with transgender healthcare and coordinated a queer youth conference. I am an ally and a supporter of LGBTQ issues.

I think the consensus view is that it depends on the schools you're applying to so look up their policies. If a school includes LGBTQ in their definition of diversity then it'll probably be a plus there. If a school doesn't include LGBTQ in their non-discrimination statement then it could be a minus there.