Life as an MD/PhD student

[Choculitis]

What's student life like for MD/PhDs and is it plausible for them to have interests outside of the two degrees? Or does the fact that the program accelerates both components make it very difficult to have other involvements and still do well in the degrees. I'd like to be able to do things like be involved in clubs/student organizations, do international clerkships, possibly learn a little about business and economics, etc.

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[solitude]

What's student life like for MD/PhDs and is it plausible for them to have interests outside of the two degrees? Or does the fact that the program accelerates both components make it very difficult to have other involvements and still do well in the degrees. I'd like to be able to do things like be involved in clubs/student organizations, do international clerkships, possibly learn a little about business and economics, etc.

In a word, yes. Excepting particularly intense bouts during the PhD and during MS3, most students don't work more than 60 or so hours and week, and many work significantly less. With that kind of schedule there is plenty of time for outside interests, in fact quite a lot. FWIW, now that I'm about halfway done with my program and know a lot of grad students, there seems to be essentially no correlation between hours worked and success at the PhD once you exceed about 50-60 hours per week. My strategy is to work hard but efficiently, and do lots of other things to keep me sane and happy. It works.

 

[Ombret]

Student life is probably healthier for MD/PhDs than for students taking either degree alone. Your time horizon is different than either your med school or grad school classmates so there is a tendency for the things that are stressing them out at any given time to not really affect you. Plus, in a program that is going to span most of a decade, you have an obligation to both pace yourself (vs. sprinting) and to get on with living your life. And you are getting paid to do this, so that makes all of these things easier.

 

[Silverfalcon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read/heard somewhere that your freedom outside each degree for MD/PhD training also really depends on the program. Like, I think BU (again, maybe I'm incorrect on this?) pushes for 7 years for MD/PhD, so they have a lot of watchful people ensuring that you are making a progress and whatnot...which I imagine to limit your time a bit more than some other programs that are a bit more laid back.

 

[URHere]

This will depend on the person and on the program. In general, the people with the most time for hobbies will be those who are good at studing efficiently and multi-tasking, and who are in no great hurry to graduate.

Honestly, though...you should be able to make time for hobbies in grad school and in pre-clinical med school. If there is something you want to do at 5pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays, that's fine...leave early. No one will care as long as you are willing to make up the lost time elsewhere.

Personally, I leave at 5pm every day so that I can make it to my dojo, and I rarely miss a class...but I show up at the crack of dawn, occasionally come back to work after my class is over at 8, and spend many Sundays enjoying some solo time in lab. Do I feel like I have a life? Yes, but I don't slack off either.

 

[Neuronix]

Plus, in a program that is going to span most of a decade, you have an obligation to both pace yourself (vs. sprinting) and to get on with living your life. And you are getting paid to do this, so that makes all of these things easier.

The following is why I think that is bad advice.

I've been involved in resident recruitment in pathology. Boards scores, clinical grades and dean's letter are just as important for the MD/PhD graduates as for the MDs. For one thing, they are standardized. Together they paint a good picture of the kind of medical student the person has been. That's a pretty good predictor of the kind of resident they will be. In less competitive specialties, MD/PhDs do not need to ace step 1, but they do need to show that they took this part of their training seriously (at a minimum by scoring above average; you are presumably an overachiever in other areas of life, so if step scores are below average, that is kind of fishy). Remember that all training programs lead to board exams, so if you were borderline on your steps, the program could justifiably wonder how you will do on your specialty boards.

Anyway, your life is as diverse as working ~60 hours a week and being tied to one (possibly boring) location will allow. If you can do what you want to do where you are and that's enough time to do it, go for it. There definitely are times when you fall off the planet completely (much of third year, parts of fourth year), but there are okay times too.

 

[Choculitis]

Is the 60 hours/week mainly during grad school, or do MD students work that much as well (other than MS3)?

Presumable MD/PhDs need to work harder during the preclinical years too because they also have grad school courswork?

 

[Neuronix]

Is the 60 hours/week mainly during grad school, or do MD students work that much as well (other than MS3)?

Uh, yes. Go read allopathic and see how much the MS1s and MS2s complain about their workloads. That will be you in MS1 and MS2 as well. MS4 is variable, but I tell people at my school they should plan to fall off the face of the planet during their sub-I. Some electives are also quite difficult, especially if you want to impress to get a residency at an away or some such.

That said, throughout med school and grad school you'll have 40 hour weeks sometimes and 80 hour weeks sometimes. I think 60 is a safe average.

Presumable MD/PhDs need to work harder during the preclinical years too because they also have grad school courswork?

Yepper. I took serious grad courses during the basic science portion of medical school. My med school grades suffered for it, and now I'm not sure it was a very good strategy.

 

[URHere]

Just to offer a slightly different perspective on this:

Is the 60 hours/week mainly during grad school, or do MD students work that much as well (other than MS3)?

This depends on the student and on the school. If you have 8-5 class, yes...you may put in this amount of work during MS1 and MS2. But, if you have class from 8-12 (or something similar), your total workload will depend on how much you decide to study. Personally, I put in 60 hours per week during MS1/MS2, but that's only because I chose to be in a lab during the academic year. With coursework and studying alone, I doubt I would have broken 30 hours/week.

I know nothing about MS3/MS4, so I'll defer to others on that point.

Presumable MD/PhDs need to work harder during the preclinical years too because they also have grad school courswork?

This also depends on the program. Most schools try to make MD/PhD students do something extra during their preclinical years (whether it is grad coursework or lab work), but that isn't always the case. In some programs your MS1/MS2 years are just the same as your MD-only classmates (minus the mandatory summer research rotation, of course).

 

[Choculitis]

Personally, I put in 60 hours per week during MS1/MS2, but that's only because I chose to be in a lab during the academic year. With coursework and studying alone, I doubt I would have broken 30 hours/week.

Yeah, that was more the impression that I had. I don't think I've seen any med schools with more than 20 hours of class/week, so it seems ridiculous that they'd be spending 60 hours just on courses. Sure, people complain about their workloads, but they do that in undergrad too.

I'm expecting to be pretty busy in med school (just like I am now), but there's a difference between doing 60 h/week just on coursework or just in the lab, and breaking that time up between courses, lab, and other ECs.

 

[QofQuimica]

What it comes down to is that you make time for the things that are important to you. So if you want to be in a club, you will make the necessary choice to apportion your time accordingly. That will be true for the rest of your training, and beyond. I mean, I am able to find time even as an intern to do outside things I want to do, like go to the gym. Not every day, and not always as often as I would like, but still at least two or three times per week even on rotations when I'm working 80 hours.

It obviously helps if the timing of whatever activity you want to do is flexible. For me, I often miss my yoga classes since I obviously can't go when I'm at work. So I just work out on my own during the weeks when my schedule doesn't allow me to attend the classes.