Life as an MD/PhD

[blazinfury]

I know that most of you have your MD/PhD or are MD/PhD student. Can you describe the life of an individual who already possess their MD/PhD? What is their daily life like in terms of time management between both research and physician work? I understand that the typical trend is 70% research and 30% physician work. What are the most common physician careers-- is it internal medicine? Is a physician's practice and research correlated-- if a physician is a cardiologist, is his research in cardiology also? In terms of the research aspect, most MD/PhDs have grad students and technicians do the research, while they write the grants and oversee the daily lab procedures and comment on the next stages of experimentation. Is it possible to do bench research also? Do the MD/PhD have to own their own lab? Can't they team up with someone who already possesses a PhD and aid them with their research and be a co-author?

Sorry for the abundance of questions but I just want to get a better idea about the life an individual in this line of work. Thanks.

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[GWD]

From my experience, most MudPhuds are about 80% research / 20% clinic.

Most spend their time writing grants and doing IRB paperwork. But that's typical of most PIs.

The current funding environment is pretty dire, and unless you are THE SEX or privately funded, most "independant" investigators spend most of their time securing funding for their staff and little to no time at the bench.

Some people think the "War on Science" may be ending soon, but then again the price of gasoline might go down as well.

To more directly address your question, yes, most MD/PhDs have their own lab after they complete their residencies and post-docs.

Can't they team up with someone who already possesses a PhD and aid them with their research and be a co-author?

pretty speechless on this one bud

 

[blazinfury]

I am assuming that most of the money that a MD/PhD earns comes from their physician salary and very little from their PhD salary, since they would rather re-invest it into their research. Now from your response it appears that MD/PhDs work 7 days a week. Am I correct? So in all essence MD/PhDs have others do the bench research, while they secure the money for keeping their lab open.

On a side-note, I have heard that few MDs want to do research. And those who do, if they work in a research hospital, are gladly encouraged to do so and welcomed with open arms. Why is that? And those MDs who do want to do it, do they do the bench research for the PhD and given the same amount of credit if a novel discovery is made? In a sense, isn't it easier to do that because the MD has no stresses of keeping the lab open, but instead can focus on his love of science and research? I guess the factor of respect and prestige are taken into account because MD/PhD is more prestigious and well respected than just an MD. In a sense, doesn't it seem easier to be an MD doing research than an MD/PhD because you save time getting the degree, but at the same getting the degree in an MD/PhD program is only 3-4 yrs. So more or less it evens out, I guess.

 

[GWD]

I am assuming that most of the money that a MD/PhD earns comes from their physician salary and very little from their PhD salary, since they would rather re-invest it into their research. Now from your response it appears that MD/PhDs work 7 days a week. Am I correct? So in all essence MD/PhDs have others do the bench research, while they secure the money for keeping their lab open.

On a side-note, I have heard that few MDs want to do research. And those who do, if they work in a research hospital, are gladly encouraged to do so and welcomed with open arms. Why is that? And those MDs who do want to do it, do they do the bench research for the PhD and given the same amount of credit if a novel discovery is made? In a sense, isn't it easier to do that because the MD has no stresses of keeping the lab open, but instead can focus on his love of science and research? I guess the factor of respect and prestige are taken into account because MD/PhD is more prestigious and well respected than just an MD. In a sense, doesn't it seem easier to be an MD doing research than an MD/PhD because you save time getting the degree, but at the same getting the degree in an MD/PhD program is only 3-4 yrs. So more or less it evens out, I guess.

no doubt we all have diarrhea of the brain by nature... but GOOD scientists ask one very specific, focused question at a time.

 

[Rowany]

I am assuming that most of the money that a MD/PhD earns comes from their physician salary and very little from their PhD salary, since they would rather re-invest it into their research.

OK, just to clarify one thing; scientists don't "re-invest" their salaries into their research. Their research is funded by grants, which also provides salaries for the post-docs, etc. It would probably be a conflict of research if they funded their lab out of pocket. But you're right, because funding is so tight, most of your salary comes from your billing hours since that is what makes the hospital money.

For the rest, how much research experience do you have? I feel like your questions would be better answered by being in an MD/PhD lab. It might also help if you knew what YOU want out of research.

Good luck!

 

[Mazelia]

If you have any ties (work, school, personal contacts) to an institution that's currently housing some MD/PhDs, I'd encourage you to try to track some of those individuals down and spend a few minutes talking to them about what they do. I did this at my home institution, and I found it much more helpful to see what a few specific people have done in their careers rather than to try to make generalizations about the "typical" MD/PhD.

P.S. Come up with short, specific questions before you talk to these people. They are very busy.

 

[Neuronix]

I understand that the typical trend is 70% research and 30% physician work.

The "goal" according to most program directors is the 80/20 or 90/10 research/clinical split. What percentage of MD/PhDs actually end up doing this is unknown. My guess is far less than half, and so this is not typical. However, this is what is expected of you and these are the people you will meet, so this is what you should think about and say.

What are the most common physician careers-- is it internal medicine?

http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~paik/match.html

Yes. It is indeed internal medicine.

Is a physician's practice and research correlated-- if a physician is a cardiologist, is his research in cardiology also? In terms of the research aspect, most MD/PhDs have grad students and technicians do the research, while they write the grants and oversee the daily lab procedures and comment on the next stages of experimentation. Is it possible to do bench research also? Do the MD/PhD have to own their own lab? Can't they team up with someone who already possesses a PhD and aid them with their research and be a co-author?

You can imagine anything you want and also do anything you want. Nobody is going to stop you. The goal according to the program directors is to produce independent investigators who bring their own grants and run the show.

I am assuming that most of the money that a MD/PhD earns comes from their physician salary and very little from their PhD salary, since they would rather re-invest it into their research. Now from your response it appears that MD/PhDs work 7 days a week. Am I correct? So in all essence MD/PhDs have others do the bench research, while they secure the money for keeping their lab open.

The money a MD/PhD earns comes from a combination of grants and what clinical work they do. As pointed out your money is not "reinvested". You negotiate a salary with a department that you attempt to support through your grants, and if not the department usually picks up from other funds. However, you can expect to earn less money in most specialties by doing mostly research as opposed to mostly clinical practice. You can also expect to work harder, have less job security, and have less locational flexibility.

On a side-note, I have heard that few MDs want to do research. And those who do, if they work in a research hospital, are gladly encouraged to do so and welcomed with open arms. Why is that?

Residents and fellows are always encouraged to do lots of research because the attendings and departments that do research need low paid and highly skilled workers. If you are good enough to bring in large grants, this is a source of money and prestige, so everyone will want you, but this is not common. Otherwise, this "welcomed" statement I consider a pretty big stretch.

Think of it like this. If you are an independent investigator with such good ideas and experience that you can bring in large ($1Million+) grants, OF COURSE programs will want you. You basically come in and give them the money you worked so hard for in exchange for the space for you to work. The problem with this ideal is that these grants are extremely competitive and the funding rates are currently only funding the top 10%. So sure, if you are the best everyone will want you. If you are not the best, good luck.

In any case, unless you are the best it always seems like a battle. Yes you're given some time for research, but there's always clinical duties that interfere more than you were promised. Your research not going well? Ok, do more clinical now... I've heard some departments like hiring MDs and MD/PhDs for this reason--nobody to fire. You just force them back into the clinical world if their grants don't pick up.

And those MDs who do want to do it, do they do the bench research for the PhD and given the same amount of credit if a novel discovery is made?

An MD can be trained to do research work and be as successful and independent as a PhD.

I guess the factor of respect and prestige are taken into account because MD/PhD is more prestigious and well respected than just an MD.

I have no idea what you're getting at here. I wouldn't say that very often if I were you. Myself, I'm getting a little annoyed at the number of snide comments I get both from MDs AND PhDs (moreso from the PhDs).

In a sense, doesn't it seem easier to be an MD doing research than an MD/PhD because you save time getting the degree, but at the same getting the degree in an MD/PhD program is only 3-4 yrs. So more or less it evens out, I guess.

That's the trick. You have to get this research training somewhere. So if you are an MD-only you will need to invest several years of time getting trained and then doing research anyways. The big difference is that the MD/PhD forces you to get the training up front while the MD never forces and gives you the flexibility to do it when you want.

unless you are THE SEX

I wanna be that guy